Dry Only?

[Hawgstoppah]

Whoa on there!!!

 

 

Professional or Pros do it for money - money is the only measurement of their competence. Whether or not pros are any good @ anything will only be determined by the market place. Some examples of pros include hookers & hockey players.

 

Whereas elitists are by definition: The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.

 

How about you use expert!

 

Don

 

I have to agree 100%. perhaps "experts" is a better word. maybe this forum should be "ask the experts" ... would be a lot less bickerin'

[birchy]

Don't know about you guys.. but I'm total pro.

 

[reevesr1]

I've been thinking about elitism and what it means. But to explain my thoughts on it, a bit of history:

 

I've tried to think of all the ways I've caught fish. I first picked up a fishing rod, or more accurately had one put in my hands, when I was probably 5 or 6 yrs old. A zebco and the first fish I caught was called a croaker, a small cousin of the redfish. But the time I was 8, I could cast an open face ambassedeur and was catching trout and redfish using live bait and artificial lures. I would also take a small spinning reel to nearby fresh water to catch sunfish that wouldn't fill your palm and catfish up to 10 lb or so using stinkbait. Around the time I was 12 I was going with my dad and little brother to set trotlines in flooded woodlands during spring run off on the Mississippi. We probably ran 1000 hooks and sold the catfish commercially. I also used a seine net to catch the small fish and crawfish we used for bait. I've also used a cast net, a gill net, a shrimp net, and a minnow net to catch fish, bait, or shrimp throughout my growing years and into young adulthood. I've handlined jack crevelle off the back of a shrimp boat, and caught 25 lb redfish using 100 lb test with no drag (a real workout!)

 

On rod and reel, I've used pretty much everything you can think of, from deepwater gear, shark gear (offshore and onshore), inshore heavy gear, inshore light, ultra light, and now my newest passion, the fly rod. So I've fished in pretty much every method there is, short of noodling catfish. I'm afraid to try. The only method I never liked much was trolling. I'm not a big fan of sitting and doing nothing, its not really in my nature. But lots of people do it and love it.

 

Most recently I've picked up a fly rod, and even if my experience level is still pretty fresh, I love it, and is currently my method of choice. It may always be, but I'm not completely sure of that.

 

The point of all that was to establish the fact that I have an extensive and varied fishing experience. And that experience has led me to certain opinions.

See, I don't really see all that much difference between fly fishing and any other recreational fishing method. I can easily say I'll never gill net again, or fish commercially, but I love catching fish on every rod and reel method. Always have and I pray always will. I also pray I don't get so jaded that I ever look down on any other method that is legal.

 

To me, whatever method you are using, the goal is to drive a pointy object into an animal whose brain is about as advanced as the insects it eats. One method is exactly zero more honorable than any other. If you think so, in my maybe not so humble opinion, you are completely deluding yourself and have bought into elitist gibberish. I could rattle off a list of authors who have perpetuated this utter garbage of the honorable fly fisherman. If I did, I'd open a can of worms I'll save for later. Methods have no honor. Fishermen do. His method is irrelevant, either he has honor or he doesn't. The honor is usually learned over years. I've known honorable live bait fishermen and dishonorable fly fishermen. And vice versa, but in no greater proportion in one group over another.

 

So back to elitism. An elitist fisherman is one who has advanced through the fishing ranks, and looks down on those below him (and he almost certainly did so at every step of his "development"). He needs to belittle others to make himself feel superior. I've known elitist gear fishermen and fly fishermen. They both make me sad. I find them worse that PETA members. PETA members don't fish and don't understand it. Elitist fishermen do fish, and don't understand it.

[duanec]

Don't know about you guys.. but I'm total pro.

total pro here

 

but very good call.

[nebc]

Whoa on there!!!

 

 

Professional or Pros do it for money - money is the only measurement of their competence. Whether or not pros are any good @ anything will only be determined by the market place. Some examples of pros include hookers & hockey players.

 

Whereas elitists are by definition: The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.

 

How about you use expert!

 

Don

without trying to sound 'elitist', Hawgstopper has it right. I have watched in wonder while I caught fish after fish on chironomids, mayfly nymphs as well as caddis pupae and thought to myself those elitists are limiting their own fun.

 

There is a time and place for dries as there are for the various other members of the insect world that offer up as fish food! It is a fact that most fish diets derive from under water in stillwaters by far. Those that just want to catch them on dries are not doing themselves any favours in spite of the fact when dries suddenly appear and fish are taking them it is always a time to switch to them.

 

I prefer to call it being smarter in some ways because when i go fishing I like to catch a lot of fish and not to simply get exercise....I get that too in my own way,

[BBBrownie]

I think it is just too easy to get caught up in a numbers game. I suppose we all have different resons for fishing, different asthetics, but for me it generally isn't at all about numbers. Most days I prefer to catch fish on my own terms, which for me means dead drifting or swinging a dry whenever possible, and often swinging streamers in the winter, etc. Having said that, if the dry fly isn't happening after a couple hours I will occasionally throw on a rig. Doesn't happen very often between about June and October though, I must say. I think my best days on the Bow often involve a couple slow hours, then spot a persistant riser, stalk onto it and hook up. Sometimes I will only catch one in a couple hours, but for me this is a quality angling experience. This is only me fishing by MY terms, buggers and dries. If nymphs float your boat, all the power to ya! It is great that we have this wonderful fishery that affords us the option of choosing personal style.

[headscan]

If someone prefers fishing dry flies or even fishes only dry flies it doesn't make them an "elitist". If they disparage those who fish other methods, then it does. Once the bugs are on the water and the fish start rising, I will put away my nymphs until fall. I get more satisfaction out of finding rising fish, figuring out what they're eating (masking hatches can be a bitch), then placing my fly in front of one than I do watching a bobber. But that's just my personal preference and I don't fault anyone for fishing however they choose. I guess it isn't just about the numbers for me - if it were there are more effective means of catching fish than fly fishing. Having said that, I was out yesterday and today, and last weekend, and the weekend before that, etc. nymphing.

 

Don nailed the whole "pro" thing. Does anyone on here actually get paid to fish? And I don't think getting paid to guide is quite the same thing. Think Bass Pro tour guys. Expert would make more sense, but then we'd just have threads asking what qualifies someone as an expert...

[Conor]

Rick nailed it. Great post.

 

I have a similar fishing history to Rick's, an I have met great anglers in every step. I met some real rooster suckers, too.

 

I personally prefer to fish bamboo and dry flies to picky fish. That puts me dangerously close to what some of you might call elitist. But I'm not. Not one bit. I could care less what method another angler chooses to fish, as long as it is ethical and they are having fun.

 

The dry fly elitist is a stereotype. Like most stereotypes there are plenty of good examples of it, but it doesn't make it true. There are elitists in all aspects of angling, whether it is the type of gear, quality of gear, method of fishing, etc. I think this is just a reflection of the number of people who think they are better than others, for any reason.

 

As my grandfather used to say, "There are more horses asses in this world then there are horses."

[SteveM]

I've been thinking about elitism and what it means. But to explain my thoughts on it, a bit of history:

 

I've tried to think of all the ways I've caught fish. I first picked up a fishing rod, or more accurately had one put in my hands, when I was probably 5 or 6 yrs old. A zebco and the first fish I caught was called a croaker, a small cousin of the redfish. But the time I was 8, I could cast an open face ambassedeur and was catching trout and redfish using live bait and artificial lures. I would also take a small spinning reel to nearby fresh water to catch sunfish that wouldn't fill your palm and catfish up to 10 lb or so using stinkbait. Around the time I was 12 I was going with my dad and little brother to set trotlines in flooded woodlands during spring run off on the Mississippi. We probably ran 1000 hooks and sold the catfish commercially. I also used a seine net to catch the small fish and crawfish we used for bait. I've also used a cast net, a gill net, a shrimp net, and a minnow net to catch fish, bait, or shrimp throughout my growing years and into young adulthood. I've handlined jack crevelle off the back of a shrimp boat, and caught 25 lb redfish using 100 lb test with no drag (a real workout!)

 

On rod and reel, I've used pretty much everything you can think of, from deepwater gear, shark gear (offshore and onshore), inshore heavy gear, inshore light, ultra light, and now my newest passion, the fly rod. So I've fished in pretty much every method there is, short of noodling catfish. I'm afraid to try. The only method I never liked much was trolling. I'm not a big fan of sitting and doing nothing, its not really in my nature. But lots of people do it and love it.

 

Most recently I've picked up a fly rod, and even if my experience level is still pretty fresh, I love it, and is currently my method of choice. It may always be, but I'm not completely sure of that.

 

The point of all that was to establish the fact that I have an extensive and varied fishing experience. And that experience has led me to certain opinions.

See, I don't really see all that much difference between fly fishing and any other recreational fishing method. I can easily say I'll never gill net again, or fish commercially, but I love catching fish on every rod and reel method. Always have and I pray always will. I also pray I don't get so jaded that I ever look down on any other method that is legal.

 

To me, whatever method you are using, the goal is to drive a pointy object into an animal whose brain is about as advanced as the insects it eats. One method is exactly zero more honorable than any other. If you think so, in my maybe not so humble opinion, you are completely deluding yourself and have bought into elitist gibberish. I could rattle off a list of authors who have perpetuated this utter garbage of the honorable fly fisherman. If I did, I'd open a can of worms I'll save for later. Methods have no honor. Fishermen do. His method is irrelevant, either he has honor or he doesn't. The honor is usually learned over years. I've known honorable live bait fishermen and dishonorable fly fishermen. And vice versa, but in no greater proportion in one group over another.

 

So back to elitism. An elitist fisherman is one who has advanced through the fishing ranks, and looks down on those below him (and he almost certainly did so at every step of his "development"). He needs to belittle others to make himself feel superior. I've known elitist gear fishermen and fly fishermen. They both make me sad. I find them worse that PETA members. PETA members don't fish and don't understand it. Elitist fishermen do fish, and don't understand it.

 

 

Tex, this might be the best thing you've written on this forum!

Well said, sir!

 

[Taco]

Down and across is the ONLY SANE way to fish but I kinda like what the resident Texican had to say.

[bigbowtrout]

Any ideas for a name change?

[Taco]

BigBowTit?

[bigbowtrout]

Good one Sir

[Taco]

Quit humourin' me LargeWhiteMan

[Hawgstoppah]

Ask The Experts... would work very well.

 

Expert - "A person with a high degree of skill in or knowledge of a certain subject"

[ÜberFly]

With the all the egos here on FFC, that's pretty much all of us!! LoL

 

P

 

Ask The Experts... would work very well.

 

Expert - "A person with a high degree of skill in or knowledge of a certain subject"

 

[flyfishfairwx]

Ask The Experts... would work very well.

 

Expert - "A person with a high degree of skill in or knowledge of a certain subject"

 

I like my version of the word "expert" = a person who knows 1% more then you do, and wants to tell you!

 

Think like a Tiger, Why limit yourself to just one!!!!??

 

 

 

[canadensis]

I like my version of the word "expert" = a person who knows 1% more then you do, and wants to tell you!

 

I question the 1% more part..

 

Other than that; spot on!

 

 

 

[Hawgstoppah]

Nah I disagree..

 

A true expert only gives advice when asked to. He won't impose his advice on others. You know, the guy who watches you fish for a while and then says... you won't catch 'em that way you should try ...... blah blah blah

 

Sort of along the same lines as someone fishing dry would only be an elitist if he imposed his views on others.

[lamponius]

 

Hi,

 

Before strating, I just want you to know I agree that the most important is to enjoy what your doing, no matter you nymphing or streaming or spinning... In fact, I dont care because what I like here, is that I dont feel "judge" by others when I m fishing. Where I come from (France), it s different, and often come a guy saying what you should be doing to catch fish (or more fish if he sees you re catching some). It s annoying.

 

That being said, I d like to compare fishing here and fishing over there. You would call us elitists because for us, flyfishing is almost exclusively about dries. We have other technics for fishing subsurface. For example, the famous San Juan Worm is unknown on the other side of Atlantic...I dont think a flyfisherman would use that...

I think flyfishing was designed to cast small bugs imitation, when other gear couldn t. In that way, casting 9 feet leaders with two huge nymphs doesn t seem the idea of what fly fishing is...Because you can use a spinner rod and a bobber to do that, with the same result.

 

I know that sounds elitist but like others said, only if I care and I judge others. I dont. It s just an opinion of what flyfishing is about, for me.

 

Just to add a cultural dimension to it...Not sure if it was needed though...

[reevesr1]

Lamponius,

A very good friend of mine is from France (in fact, several good friends, but only one who I've fished with). The first time we fished together was one chilly, very windy spring day on the crow. He was fishing hopper dropper (a big ass stimmy) and I was using an indicator and a couple of nymphs. He would say "what is this indicator bullsheet? It is not fly fishing?" I asked him if he expected anything to hit that big stimulator in March. He said no, but there was a chance! He caught all his fish on the nymph, which was somehow better than the ones I caught on the nymph.

 

A month or so later, we are fishing the Bow. He saw may SJW and called it bullshit and not fly fishing again (and there was nothing mean in how he said it, I thought it was funny). He caught a few, I caught more.

 

A couple of weeks after that we are supposed to meet at McKinnons for an afternoon fish. I had to call and cancel for an unexpected meeting. But then the meeting canceled and I tried to call my friend. His phone did not work since he was already on the river. So I drive down and see him fishing a run. I asked "hey, there is some big orange thing stuck to your line! Is that a new style of stimulator?" He says "if you think the indicator is funny, look at this" and he pulls up the indie, followed by 2 SJW's and a big honkin' stone fly nymph. I said "when you come to the dark side you don't *&*% around." He said "this may not be fly fishing, but it is very effective."

 

Later that year him and I meet up on a small stream. We started about 2 km of river apart, me with my son and him fishing alone. My son and I worked downstream and he worked upstream and we met in the middle, around 2 pm. My son and I had switched to dries at around 10am and were having an excellent day. We met my friend, who was still nymphing, with an indie, and having a better day. He said he had fished dries for a bit but "I am catching bigger fish deep". Seems cultures are adaptable. He now lives in Hungary and fishes all over eastern Europe. I'm sure with mostly dries, which he is utterly outstanding at, and nymphs when "the big ones are deep," and when nobody else is around!

 

There is no moral, other than to say that I think (and I could be full of *hit, again) that the dry culture in Europe is as much due to peer pressure than anything else. Remove the peer pressure, and the morals change. Nothing wrong with that, just like there is nothing wrong with the majority in Europe fishing dries. There is no "right" way. And I didn't think you sounded elitist at all!

[lamponius]

 

Rickr, I see your point...

 

I think I have to try...Honestly, when I see guys already outhere nymphing, with that nice weather and all, I m a little (juste a little ?) jaleous and I am almost at the point to try some nymphs...

I am also convinced that you catch more fish nymphing. I just dont see the fun yet. But as I said, I still have to tryadn as your friend, maybe I ll never return from the dark side!!!

 

Thanks for you story. I always enjoy reading your posts.

[daxlarsen]

A true expert only gives advice when asked to. He won't impose his advice on others. You know, the guy who watches you fish for a while and then says... you won't catch 'em that way you should try ...... blah blah blah

 

 

hey you just described me lol

[reevesr1]

Rickr, I see your point...

 

I think I have to try...Honestly, when I see guys already outhere nymphing, with that nice weather and all, I m a little (juste a little ?) jaleous and I am almost at the point to try some nymphs...

I am also convinced that you catch more fish nymphing. I just dont see the fun yet. But as I said, I still have to tryadn as your friend, maybe I ll never return from the dark side!!!

 

Thanks for you story. I always enjoy reading your posts.

Helps that the story is all true!

I think it comes down to why a person fishes. I have always fished because of the feel of the fish on the end of my line, or at least primarily. Because of that, the method used tends to mean less to me. I like the fly rod because I like the feel better while fighting a fish. I do like the visual of a fish rising to a dry fly, who doesn't? But how I "fool" the fish is essentially meaningless to me. The fight trumps all.

 

But as it should be in this game, that's just me. Starting in a few weeks, you can dry fly for about what, 8 months or so? No need to go under water if you don't want to!

[DaveJensen]

From what I see of the section, the majority of the keen folks here know as much as there is a need to know (most likely much more), and are quite good fly fishers. The section might be better served as "asking for special input or perspective", as most who are posting in this section know something (or a lot of somethings), but they are looking for add-on information, perspective, or other thoughts on how to do something or a discovery of why something has or is happening. Just a thought.

Cheers