Guest Sundancefisher Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 You're right Rick you can, and are entitled to your opinion............I guess that's how Pamela Anderson feels about the seal hunt too.....And you have the right to protest if you feel strongly about it..........Where I draw the line is with activists breaking the law to protest and what seems to be leniency by law enforcement/governments with regard to punsihing the law breakers........Whether it's seal hunt protests, oil sands protests or dolphin slaughter protests do what you want within the law because you are entitled to express your opinion........But it is sheer arrogance to say, as one oil sands protester hanging from the Shell upgrader (illegally) said when asked why he thought it was o.k. to break the law, "We need to do whatever is necessary until "they" listen to us"........Arrogant...... Without putting words or anything else in Pamela Anderson's mouth...I think what she is against is wearing skins and the "inhuman" way PETA and Greenpeace says seals are killed...especially the little cuddly white ones . I don't think she has actually said she is totally against others right to eat meat...but meat killed humanely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adc Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Without putting words or anything else in Pamela Anderson's mouth...I think what she is against is wearing skins and the "inhuman" way PETA and Greenpeace says seals are killed...especially the little cuddly white ones . I don't think she has actually said she is totally against others right to eat meat...but meat killed humanely. They haven't killed a cuddly white one with a club for some time.........I think all her blood is in her tits and not her brain...........Ooops....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dube Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 I totally disagree. Of course we can judge based on IQ. If we didn't, we'd still be eating each other Maybe it's time again. Good sustainable protein, no poaching of course just well managed harvest. Could start with penitentiaries, and maybe then to emergency wards. Salvage the good viable organs and meat out the rest. Probably not the most tasty but abundant. I don't feel real good about the hunting of dolphins, seems a bit savage.....whales too. Where do you draw the line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adc Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 ADC, Why be done with the thread? This one is actually moving along without much name calling, at least I think it is. Just differing opinions..... I've seen them more times than I can count goofing around. One of my strongest submarine memories are watching them jump across the bow while we were surface transiting between islands in Hawaii. I don't know how smart they really are. I'm sure I tend to assign more intelligence to them than they deserve. I don't care though. They are too valuable to eat. Period. I know that is just my opinion, but it is a cause I would support with my time and effort if the opportunity to do so arises. Alright Rick, I'm back.........Good stories, all, and I certainly understand your love for the animals and your strong feelings against killing them.........My point is simply that there is more to it than that......Someone has posted the fact that dogs and horses are eaten in many places while we see them as pets and wouldn't dream of it.....It's about imposing our views on everyone else because we think we're right and they're wrong..........That's a problem that causes wars........Cheers....... Al.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbowtrout Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadensis Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Maybe it's time again. Good sustainable protein, no poaching of course just well managed harvest. Could start with penitentiaries, and maybe then to emergency wards. Salvage the good viable organs and meat out the rest. Probably not the most tasty but abundant. I don't feel real good about the hunting of dolphins, seems a bit savage.....whales too. Where do you draw the line? I can only conclude that you are comparing dolphins to humans with a post like this? The first bit is really not worth comment.. In some African and Asian countries they eat monkey too. I believe a monkey is a primate? I could not imagine it, but if I lived in a grass hut, cooked my food over buffalo dung, did not own shoes, and eating anything was a day to day survival tactic I would probably look forward to killing and eating one? Same as Elephant. I saw a program where a hunter from the USA flew to Africa, killed an elephant and only took the tusks. The villiage got a large ammount of money for the "permit", built a school and all the villagers lined up for the meat. Seems like a win-win to me... My personal line is I will stick to North American domesticated animals, wild ungulates, and fish; but that is just me. All of our sustenance needs are met in North America, so it becomes easy to pick apart how other cultures go about it. Who are we to judge another culture based on our culture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricinus Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Comparing someone starving in an African village to someone in Japan is a pretty long stretch. Just because a culture allows certain practices doesn't make them right and free from challenges. Look at the treatment of women in various cultures. Do you think beatings,burnings and cervical circumcisions are acceptable? What about poaching to satisfy a cultures need for bear gall bladders, tiger penis or rhino horn. I can't see how you can turn a blind eye to things like this and say " Oh it's part of their culture". I think cultures are constantly evolving and even one as Old as Japan's is subject to change. Regards Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesr1 Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Wow...didn't this thread blossom! I'm with rickr. Just put me down for whatever he says in this thread. (and this thread only...) Thanks Isosceles. I'll try not to let you down! But I fear that I've exhausted my position on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 "Comparing someone starving in an African village to someone in Japan is a pretty long stretch." Absolutely! No comparison at all. However, (also known as the big BUT !) : "Just because a culture allows certain practices doesn't make them right and free from challenges." In Canada we do allow a substantial amount of "cultural traditions" that are outside our mainstream laws, regulations and even our conservation measures, right? So, are we not being a tad hypocritical in trying to tell other people in another nation, in another culture, in another economy, what they can or can't do or what they should and shouldn't do ??? These North Pacific Dolphins are not endangered, nor threatened(there are only two species that are, Chilean and River Indus). I spent a couple of years in a country where dog was harvested as food. Did I eat any? Not that I was aware of, the thought was repulsive! But, it was "just the way it was." Maybe that was the beginning of me learning not to be so judgmental about other people's/nation's/society's ways of life. j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricinus Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Jack I disagree with you about turning a blind eye to practices that quite frankly are beneath us as human beings. If we don't question them, who will and how will change ever occur? As far as allowing practices in Canada that are illegal in law, I don't think so. I do not accept " thats just the way it is " as a reason for not doing anything. Regards Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Having been there, lived there for short durations is far from a "blind eye". I think I understand the people of Taiji's position on their fishery. I also understand that, even though the fishery is repulsive to me personally, I am in no position to demand that they stop, without having constructive alternatives for 1/3 of their economy. They are doing something that is a large part of their tradition. Sort of like native status Indian's "traditional rights"(that is recognized in law, in Canada) to hunt and fish whenever or where ever they feel the need, even if contrary to conservation practices. The obvious question is: "If a portion of the Canadian population is "allowed" traditional harvesting rights, unencumbered by laws and regulation, why isn't it "OK" for a group of people on the other side of the Pacific? j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricinus Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Good points Jack Regards Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesr1 Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Having been there, lived there for short durations is far from a "blind eye". I think I understand the people of Taiji's position on their fishery. I also understand that, even though the fishery is repulsive to me personally, I am in no position to demand that they stop, without having constructive alternatives for 1/3 of their economy. They are doing something that is a large part of their tradition. Sort of like native status Indian's "traditional rights"(that is recognized in law, in Canada) to hunt and fish whenever or where ever they feel the need, even if contrary to conservation practices. The obvious question is: "If a portion of the Canadian population is "allowed" traditional harvesting rights, unencumbered by laws and regulation, why isn't it "OK" for a group of people on the other side of the Pacific? j My response would be that I don't accept that killing of dolphins for food is acceptable, regardless of economic consequence, or tradition, or whatever. I understand your point fully about "is it our place to say", but for me in this case I think it is our place (or at least my place) to question and protest. I have never boycotted anything in my life that I can remember, nor have I ever protested anything. I would make an exception for this. I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but I don't equate the natives here killing salmon (or bears or whatever) to the killing of dolphin. To continue the broken record theme, I don't know where the "animal intelligence" line is, but where ever it is, dolphins are above it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryH Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 While we are dealing with all these heavy questions concerning human treatment of animals, how about Burning Bunnies for heat? It seems pretty Green, but I still wonder what P.E.T.A. thinks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricinus Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Deleted, didn't add anything new to discussion Regards Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebc Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 The only whaling communities in Noth America are Native... Poaching a bull trout and legally killing a grizzly bear are two totally different things. One is a legal, managed hunt and the other, well is poaching.. BC and Alaska have very robust, stable, managed populations of Grizzlies. Saying you personally do not agree with hunting bears is one thing thing, but it is not even comparable to poaching. Peter some people cannot understand why you fish. Some of the same groups that want to ban hunting, not just bear hunting want a complete ban on sport fishing as well. You have alot more in common with someone that legally hunts bears than you give credit. Northern BC actually in most of the remote areas have far too many grizzly. Our grizzly here are dependent on predation to maintain their numbers and people in the backcountry are experiencing what the greenies should! A totally dumb mis-management scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonAndersen Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Folks, I get a kick outta some us of getting all uppity about Asian fishermen making a living and then you see stuff like this. Don http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/marine-li...s-put-stop.html http://www.missosology.info/forum/viewtopi...f=8&t=25127 And for a full WIKI info pack, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling_in_the_Faroe_Islands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigtoad Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 In some asian countries they eat dogs and rats, in India they would never eat a cow and in Germany they eat horses. All protein, yet each culture has a different approach on how to sustain itself. I realize I'm entering this conversation really late so I apologize for any redundancy here. When I was in the Philippines 10 years ago, I tried dog once, at a wedding feast for the community I was staying in. Went back to the house I was staying at with a Filipino pastor and our dog, Chips, was "missing." Well, apparently Chips was invited to the wedding as well. I didn't feel bad, he was a mean dog anyway. A bit fatty as well.... So I would try eating dog, but I wouldn't eat dolphin. The part of the movie where he brings the TV down to the dock and the dolphins could identify themselves and seemed to enjoy watching themselves perform was, for me, the turning point in my mind. I realize that my emotions probably got the best of my reasoning, but that did it. The level of self-awareness seemed too high. It wasn't a matter of how "smart" it was. Pigs are "smart" and delicious. Period. But the film made a very strong argument for dolphins having another level of self-awareness that other animals (maybe some primates???) don't have. I'm also an avid hunter and do occasionally come across something I will shoot, but if I came across a deer sitting around, watching themselves on TV, I would probably put my gun away and watch the TV with the deer. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sundancefisher Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 My response would be that I don't accept that killing of dolphins for food is acceptable, regardless of economic consequence, or tradition, or whatever. I understand your point fully about "is it our place to say", but for me in this case I think it is our place (or at least my place) to question and protest. I have never boycotted anything in my life that I can remember, nor have I ever protested anything. I would make an exception for this. I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but I don't equate the natives here killing salmon (or bears or whatever) to the killing of dolphin. To continue the broken record theme, I don't know where the "animal intelligence" line is, but where ever it is, dolphins are above it. Just to clarify you point rick. Inuit are allowed to shoot polar bears. Inuit also have a hunt for bowheads and I believe the Haida killed a grey whale from time to time. You would then also have to agree to ban this practice also? Walrus, seals and sealions would be different though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesr1 Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Whales-not as sure (or maybe not as emotionally attached) as dolphins, but maybe. Walrus, seals, and sealions are different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sundancefisher Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Whales-not as sure (or maybe not as emotionally attached) as dolphins, but maybe. Walrus, seals, and sealions are different. From an intelligence perspective...generally whales are considered half as intelligent as dolphins. You must of grown up watching Flipper like me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadensis Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Well Ed the horse could talk. Beat that Flipper! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Well Ed the horse could talk. Beat that Flipper! paarden rookvlees or smoked horse meat on fresh homemade white bread is da bomb. Ed the Hoss is plenty good eats if'n you run him through a smoker first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadensis Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Mmmm 海豚.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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