Is This Guy Worth 1/2 Million/yr + Bonus?

[SupremeLeader]

So the only clinics that I am aware of that allowed jumping the queue were for the homeless at the drop in center and the one the Calgary Flames had for the players, staff and families?

 

Funny how that works? Yet the people considered "high risk" by medical definition had to line up for hours only to be now snubbed by Alberta Health, albiet temporarily. Thankfully we had enough vaccine to get the Flames vaccinated....

 

The most hilarious thing is that Albertan's will vote the same gov't in that pulls these stunts just as they always do; or they'll vote the new right wing Wild Rose Party.

 

It'll just be the same old same old; the right wingers (no pun intended) catering to the rich elite.

 

[SupremeLeader]

I have lived in the USA for the last 10 years. You have no idea what you are talking about in regards to USA health care. You are making stuff up. My health care in the USA is much much better than any care offered in Canada. What you don't realise is that the Provincial governments are HMO's. They decide what cancer drugs are offered based on statistical data.

 

 

Maybe you should go back if it sucks so bad here.

[reevesr1]

I have lived in the USA for the last 10 years. You have no idea what you are talking about in regards to USA health care. You are making stuff up. My health care in the USA is much much better than any care offered in Canada. What you don't realise is that the Provincial governments are HMO's. They decide what cancer drugs are offered based on statistical data.

 

I've spent lots of time in both countries. If you are rich, or work for a company with a great health care plan then you are correct. If neither of those conditions are met, you are not correct (of course that is just my opinion).

 

My parents were self employed for a good hunk of their lives. Not poor, but certainly not rich. Dad got prostrate cancer, and survived it for 11 yrs. About 1/2 way through the insurance costs got too much to continue. In the middle of that, mom got breast cancer. She survived it. All their retirement money was spent paying for treatment. Basically, they got sick, then bankrupt.

 

My wife is a nurse and has worked in both systems. She far prefers this one. We have a good friend who is a MSc Nurse and has been in hospital admin in both countries. She far prefers this system.

 

I just think the US system, as being practiced today, is far too onerous on the middle and bottom of the population. And getting worse.

 

[DonAndersen]

Boy,

 

Does this discussion ever represent a drunken Saturday nite. Lurching all over the place.

 

Guess I should've tried a poll!!

 

Don

[reevesr1]

These things are like conversations. They wander around.

[Weedy1]

No

[cj6530]

I've spent lots of time in both countries. If you are rich, or work for a company with a great health care plan then you are correct. If neither of those conditions are met, you are not correct (of course that is just my opinion).

 

My parents were self employed for a good hunk of their lives. Not poor, but certainly not rich. Dad got prostrate cancer, and survived it for 11 yrs. About 1/2 way through the insurance costs got too much to continue. In the middle of that, mom got breast cancer. She survived it. All their retirement money was spent paying for treatment. Basically, they got sick, then bankrupt.

 

My wife is a nurse and has worked in both systems. She far prefers this one. We have a good friend who is a MSc Nurse and has been in hospital admin in both countries. She far prefers this system.

 

I just think the US system, as being practiced today, is far too onerous on the middle and bottom of the population. And getting worse.

 

 

Last time I checked a poor healthy 35 year old in Alberta cannot get a colonoscopy to pre screen for colon cancer. My father who is 62 cannot get the procedure because he does not have any history of that cancer in his family. In the USA anyone of any age with insurance can get that cancer pre screen tomorrow if they wish. If you don't have insurance but have $1400 in your pocket you can get one tomorrow as well. My point, is that the level of care in Canada is terrible....but yes it won't bankrupt you if you get ill.....you may not get the best treatment but you will not be broke.

[fishinhogdaddy]

We at AHS got an email from Duckett last week "asking" for us to find ways to reduce costs. Why? So he can reduce staff costs with the ideas and so he can collect his "bonuses". Um... YA RIGHT! I'm on it Stevie!

FHD

[Taco]

Boy,

 

Does this discussion ever represent a drunken Saturday nite. Lurching all over the place.

 

Guess I should've tried a poll!!

 

Don

 

I don't know Don but this thread of yours should be renamed the Bronconnier Thread... A Whole Lotta Whinin' Comin' Outta Kalgree

[canadensis]

We at AHS got an email from Duckett last week "asking" for us to find ways to reduce costs. Why? So he can reduce staff costs with the ideas and so he can collect his "bonuses". Um... YA RIGHT! I'm on it Stevie!

FHD

 

There is a rumour floating around that AHS office staff were able to get the vaccine without going through the big line-ups?

 

Any truth to this?

 

[ÜberFly]

Yes! My GF works at the Sheldon Chumir and the clinical staff banded together and put a clinic together for themselves and all staff (because they were shut out - being frontline staff and all)!! I should have used my volunteer card and got it then as well!!

 

P

 

There is a rumour floating around that AHS office staff were able to get the vaccine without going through the big line-ups?

 

Any truth to this?

[reevesr1]

Last time I checked a poor healthy 35 year old in Alberta cannot get a colonoscopy to pre screen for colon cancer. My father who is 62 cannot get the procedure because he does not have any history of that cancer in his family. In the USA anyone of any age with insurance can get that cancer pre screen tomorrow if they wish. If you don't have insurance but have $1400 in your pocket you can get one tomorrow as well. My point, is that the level of care in Canada is terrible....but yes it won't bankrupt you if you get ill.....you may not get the best treatment but you will not be broke.

 

Life expectancy:

US-male 73, female 80

Can-male 78, female 83

 

Infant mortality, per 1000 births

US-6.3

Can-5.04

 

Can vs US Health Care Spending

 

A couple of quotes:

As the chart below reveals, the cost gap between the United States and Canada has only widened since 1993, and per capita health care expenditures in the United States are now almost double those in Canada ($6,401 vs. $3,359). Canada's per capita health expenditures rose about 65% from 1993 to 2005, while costs in the United States rose by over 90%.

 

Yet infant mortality in the United States is higher and life expectancy at birth is less than in Canada. It is also noteworthy that despite Canada's much lower expenditures on health care, Canadians consult with physicians far more often than do Americans. The average number of physician consultations per capita was 6.0 in Canada, versus 3.8 in the United States.1

 

I don't know anything about the EPI (source of the health care spending numbers), so I can't vouch at all to the accuracy of their numbers. But I do know from watching debates in the US that the spend in the US is far higher than Canada, and for the extra buck you get lower life expectancy and more infant mortality. Good return on investment, eh? And I know that demographics are far different in the two countries, and that does impact both the life expectancy and infant mortality numbers. You would have to research over time to see if the US extra spend really is impacting these numbers positively in relation to Canada or any other single pay system. But I have followed this debate for many years now and nothing I have seen leads me to believe it is.

 

How does this fit in the context of H1N1? Probably doesn't. Just a bit of diversion.

[canadensis]

Yes! My GF works at the Sheldon Chumir and the clinical staff banded together and put a clinic together for themselves and all staff (because they were shut out - being frontline staff and all)!! I should have used my volunteer card and got it then as well!!

 

P

 

Since when are office support staff front line?

 

Yet another example of 2 tier health care in Alberta!

 

 

[ÜberFly]

Well, depenging on which department, I guess... Receptionists certainly deal with the sick (though differently then the clinical staff, but are exposed more then the average person) which is different then someone that works behind the scenes. In the case of my GF, she's a Psychologist and councils a high risk group directly, so I'd say definitely high(er) risk!

 

P

 

Since when are office support staff front line?

 

Yet another example of 2 tier health care in Alberta!

 

[canadensis]

Well, depenging on which department, I guess... Receptionists certainly deal with the sick (though differently then the clinical staff, but are exposed more then the average person) which is different then someone that works behind the scenes. In the case of my GF, she's a Psychologist and councils a high risk group directly, so I'd say definitely high(er) risk!

 

P

 

Well I would consider a receptionist at a Doctors office front line!

 

What I heard (through a reliable source) is that it was the office staff- ie. paper pushers behind the scene. They work in an office with no patients, etc. No different than any other office with the exception that they work for Alberta Health.

 

Regardless the PC government has a nightmare on their hands that they created! Yes the actual danger of H1N1 is up for dabate, but the optics of how this whole process has been handled is terrible. They are the fools that created this pent up demand!

 

FYI- alberta is the only Province that did not triage higher at risk individuals to get the vaccine first.

[cj6530]

Life expectancy:

US-male 73, female 80

Can-male 78, female 83

 

Infant mortality, per 1000 births

US-6.3

Can-5.04

 

Can vs US Health Care Spending

 

A couple of quotes:

 

 

 

 

I don't know anything about the EPI (source of the health care spending numbers), so I can't vouch at all to the accuracy of their numbers. But I do know from watching debates in the US that the spend in the US is far higher than Canada, and for the extra buck you get lower life expectancy and more infant mortality. Good return on investment, eh? And I know that demographics are far different in the two countries, and that does impact both the life expectancy and infant mortality numbers. You would have to research over time to see if the US extra spend really is impacting these numbers positively in relation to Canada or any other single pay system. But I have followed this debate for many years now and nothing I have seen leads me to believe it is.

 

How does this fit in the context of H1N1? Probably doesn't. Just a bit of diversion.

 

If quality of heath care is based soley on stats than you would be in favor of a Canadian health care policy of aborting all Down Synodrome children. My point is simply that you have no choice or options for health care. You have to take what the government gives you. Why would you want that. You have to follow the course that the Alberta Government sets for you if your child has an illness. Really.......you think that is OK. You don't think that you should have the option to buy some treatment that is only 60% efffective that the Alberta Government does not offer. Really?? Why get a good job in Canada.....You are able to buy a bunch of sleds and drive a new Escalade but your not able to provide the best health care available to a sick family member.

[cj6530]

Life expectancy:

US-male 73, female 80

Can-male 78, female 83

 

Infant mortality, per 1000 births

US-6.3

Can-5.04

 

Can vs US Health Care Spending

 

A couple of quotes:

 

 

 

 

I don't know anything about the EPI (source of the health care spending numbers), so I can't vouch at all to the accuracy of their numbers. But I do know from watching debates in the US that the spend in the US is far higher than Canada, and for the extra buck you get lower life expectancy and more infant mortality. Good return on investment, eh? And I know that demographics are far different in the two countries, and that does impact both the life expectancy and infant mortality numbers. You would have to research over time to see if the US extra spend really is impacting these numbers positively in relation to Canada or any other single pay system. But I have followed this debate for many years now and nothing I have seen leads me to believe it is.

 

How does this fit in the context of H1N1? Probably doesn't. Just a bit of diversion.

 

Also.......

 

read this

 

http://healthcare-economist.com/2007/10/02...h-canada-vs-us/

 

Point is that USA has better care for sick people but yes Americans are less healthy and die quicker than Canadians because they are fat. Americans being fat is a diff argument. The point is that once you are sick in the usa you have a better Mortility rate than in Canada.

[reevesr1]

If quality of heath care is based soley on stats than you would be in favor of a Canadian health care policy of aborting all Down Synodrome children.

 

Please.

 

My point is simply that you have no choice or options for health care. You have to take what the government gives you. Why would you want that. You have to follow the course that the Alberta Government sets for you if your child has an illness. Really.......you think that is OK. You don't think that you should have the option to buy some treatment that is only 60% efffective that the Alberta Government does not offer. Really?? Why get a good job in Canada.....You are able to buy a bunch of sleds and drive a new Escalade but your not able to provide the best health care available to a sick family member.

 

 

I'm not saying it is without issues here. In my particular circumstance, it could be argued that I am better off in the US from a health care perspective. My company covered me really well. But not everyone is as lucky as I am. However, it's not just about me. Getting sick should never bankrupt anyone. As long as a big percentage of the population cannot afford health care in the US, the system needs to be overhauled.

 

Edit:

Much better reply the second time. Refuting a study with another study is far more effective than the down syndrome garbage.

Quotes from your study:

 

In Canada, the main reason for an unmet need was because the wait was too long or the treatment was unavailable. In the U.S., most people who do not receive treatment fail to do so because of cost considerations.

Pick your poison I guess.

 

Conclusion

 

American are less healthy than Canadians. What this paper finds, however, is that this is mainly due to the fact that the U.S. has a higher incidence of disease. It turns out that Americans may have slightly higher access to treatment than Canadians. The paper is not the most smoothly written piece I have read, but the data is revealing. The small-ish sample size of the JCUSH mean that the results should not be taken as definative. Since the data set uses the same survey for both countries, however, the authors present convincing evidence that this cross-country comparison is of a high quality.

 

So, in essence he is saying that you MAY have better access to care in the US.

 

Interesting read. Not sure that it presents that strong a case for either side. Actually, it presents a case for a dual system, but nobody in either country really wants to talk about that.

[bhurt]

Well, depenging on which department, I guess... Receptionists certainly deal with the sick (though differently then the clinical staff, but are exposed more then the average person) which is different then someone that works behind the scenes. In the case of my GF, she's a Psychologist and councils a high risk group directly, so I'd say definitely high(er) risk!

 

P

So peter let me get this right, since I deal with the public 90% of the time I am at work, handle money (one of the best way to transmit virus) all the time and shake alot of hands (another great way of transmitting viruses), I deserve to get my H1N1 shot before a pregnet lady.

 

I do not belive office staff regardless to what they do should get it before someone that has health problem, children under the age of 5, and pregant people.

 

I will not get my shot until these groups are taken care of, and that is my choice.....

[cj6530]

Please.

 

 

 

 

I'm not saying it is without issues here. In my particular circumstance, it could be argued that I am better off in the US from a health care perspective. My company covered me really well. But not everyone is as lucky as I am. However, it's not just about me. Getting sick should never bankrupt anyone. As long as a big percentage of the population cannot afford health care in the US, the system needs to be overhauled.

 

Edit:

Much better reply the second time. Refuting a study with another study is far more effective than the down syndrome garbage.

Quotes from your study:

 

 

Pick your poison I guess.

 

 

 

So, in essence he is saying that you MAY have better access to care in the US.

 

Interesting read. Not sure that it presents that strong a case for either side. Actually, it presents a case for a dual system, but nobody in either country really wants to talk about that.

 

 

The Down Syndrome point was garbage but so was you point in regards to the stats you presented.....just that yours were less obvious to those that do not understand how your stats related to the topic of quality health care. In regards to what system is better.......I agree that we will never agree. I personally would rather have a few people going bankrupt over health care costs but in return my child is one of the few extra who lives instead of dies because of low birth weight. I do not need the government being my nanny.

[ÜberFly]

Brad,

 

I wasn't in the previous e-mail, nor am I now disagreeing with you!! My response was giving details on the situation at the Sheldon Chumir Centre - which is a "health care facility" - office staff, and clinical and/or frontline staff two different scenarios... But seeng that it is a "health care facility" statistically would come into contact with ill, high risk people a bit more frequantly then retail staff (not saying that there is not a chance that retail staff wouldn't come into contact with ill people)... So would think that (personal opinion here) the front line "health care" staff are a bit higher priority then pegnant women (who's immune system is heightened to begin with more so then the average person) just for the fact that if they are sick, they cannot take care of people/patients/clients, etc. that have become ill. Office staff compleatly different story, as I mentoned already!

 

Now I don't have the specifics of what happend at the Sheldon Chumir, but from what I heard expost facto (and 2nd hand) that the clinical staff did it on their own for the clinical staff and I'm sure the support staff totally mooched in (wouldn't you?!).

 

P

 

So peter let me get this right, since I deal with the public 90% of the time I am at work, handle money (one of the best way to transmit virus) all the time and shake alot of hands (another great way of transmitting viruses), I deserve to get my H1N1 shot before a pregnet lady.

 

I do not belive office staff regardless to what they do should get it before someone that has health problem, children under the age of 5, and pregant people.

 

I will not get my shot until these groups are taken care of, and that is my choice.....

[bhurt]

Peter,

 

Do you know how dirty money really is, and is also one of the biggest ways cold and flues are transfeered from one person to another....

 

Also air condition is nothing by recycled air, so image how many germs is just floating through the air.

 

How many times during the course of a day could someone cough on their hands then come and shake my hand, as I see it there is no diffrence between the two, just incause you mention to use hand sanatizer howcome people that work where you wife/girlfriend (I dunno if you are married or not) can't use it also, just cause they work in a profession that has the word HEALTH in it does not mean they are above everyone else, look at the people that have died from the H1N1, not a single person (as far as I know) worked in HEALTH care, they were regular joe blows just like me and the other saps out there.

 

Not fighting with you Peter I just don't agree with what you are saying that is all.

 

By the way I did have a chance to jump to the front of a line up at one of the clinics cau8se I know someone that worked there but I refused as why am I better then they are, I am just an average joe just like everyone else, no special treatment needed.

[ÜberFly]

Not interpreting your response as fighting at all!! (insert gay pokey thing) You are intitled to an opinion as am I as is everyone

 

LoL

 

P

 

Peter,

 

Do you know how dirty money really is, and is also one of the biggest ways cold and flues are transfeered from one person to another....

 

Also air condition is nothing by recycled air, so image how many germs is just floating through the air.

 

How many times during the course of a day could someone cough on their hands then come and shake my hand, as I see it there is no diffrence between the two, just incause you mention to use hand sanatizer howcome people that work where you wife/girlfriend (I dunno if you are married or not) can't use it also, just cause they work in a profession that has the word HEALTH in it does not mean they are above everyone else, look at the people that have died from the H1N1, not a single person (as far as I know) worked in HEALTH care, they were regular joe blows just like me and the other saps out there.

 

Not fighting with you Peter I just don't agree with what you are saying that is all.

 

[ÜberFly]

Kudos!! I guess you have WAY more scruples then a professinal hockey player that plays in Calgary!! LoL

 

P

 

By the way I did have a chance to jump to the front of a line up at one of the clinics cau8se I know someone that worked there but I refused as why am I better then they are, I am just an average joe just like everyone else, no special treatment needed.

[bhurt]

Kudos!! I guess you have WAY more scruples then a professinal hockey player that plays in Calgary!! LoL

 

P

 

Nah I do not think that, I just belive that there are alot more people in need of it then me, personally if I kick the bucket today in ten years no one will remeber me anyways so heck maybe this is my way to go down in history (I know its a bad joke, but I just couldn't resit saying it.)