Should A Household In Calgary Be Allowed To Have A Reasonable Number Of Chickens

[SupremeLeader]

This is a good idea, and in fact, it is a part of an international standard of rights set out by the United Nations (contact CLUCK). Calgary is one of the few cities in the world where small scale urban chicken farming is illegal.

 

My own relatives kept chickens in their backyards when I was young (different province). It is a very good practice for several reasons; it allows people to access fresh food (eggs), and also serves as an educational tool in the community. And for the record they're not 'eco-weenie hippies', they're Italians.

 

I'm not sure why people would resist this idea, especially if it is kept on a small scale....perhaps rural Albertans feel threatened? I don't believe people everywhere would start raising chickens if it was legal as Clive implied; it is legal all over Canada and that hasn't occurred.

 

I consider myself to be a serious urban gardener; however, I wouldn't raise chickens primarily because of heating issues and time. That said, using your urban space to raise grass has got to be one of the biggest wastes in our cities.

 

I hope these people are successful in changing the law; everyone has a right to raise food in there own space (scary....that sounds so Conservative).

[bigbowtrout]

I had a cow for 12 years but she turned mad so I Divorced her.

 

 

empowerment that comes from knowing you can raise your own meat

 

 

 

[dryfly]

SL said "...I wouldn't raise chickens primarily because of heating issues and time. That said, using your urban space to raise grass has got to be one of the biggest wastes in our cities."

 

Your first point is totally valid BUT something some will not think about. There will be some successes, but guaranteed some dismal failures.

 

Regarding grass... well stated. I am not sure it is an actual waste but emphasizes the point that the lawns COULD be used for raising veggies. But then what do you do with the area for 7 or 8 months a year? Works for some, but most urbanites are too lazy..me for example. A lawn is better than bare soil, weeds or gravel. A lot of city folks like their space and generally having a lawn is nothing to be ashamed of and attractive. Some of the zero lawn front yards with rocks and gravel and junipers are most attractive. Some look great. Some look like gravel piles.

 

Should we regulate the size of yards per person? Should we force everyone to live in condos and row houses with no yards? Even row housing development have lawns. I think city bylaws require certain amounts of greenspace per unit.

 

Overall, green spaces are good and noting to be ashamed of.

 

 

[SupremeLeader]

SL said "...I wouldn't raise chickens primarily because of heating issues and time. That said, using your urban space to raise grass has got to be one of the biggest wastes in our cities."

 

Your first point is totally valid BUT something some will not think about. There will be some successes, but guaranteed some dismal failures.

 

Regarding grass... well stated. I am not sure it is an actual waste but emphasizes the point that the lawns COULD be used for raising veggies. But then what do you do with the area for 7 or 8 months a year? Works for some, but most urbanites are too lazy..me for example. A lawn is better than bare soil, weeds or gravel. A lot of city folks like their space and generally having a lawn is nothing to be ashamed of and attractive. Some of the zero lawn front yards with rocks and gravel and junipers are most attractive. Some look great. Some look like gravel piles.

 

Should we regulate the size of yards per person? Should we force everyone to live in condos and row houses with no yards? Even row housing development have lawns. I think city bylaws require certain amounts of greenspace per unit.

 

Overall, green spaces are good and noting to be ashamed of.

 

 

Indeed, green spaces are good, and grass is better than concrete, I agree.

 

I really believe, however, that growing a few veggies on your lot is a great way to save energy on so many levels. Grass on the otherhand, is cut, watered, and often the clippings are thrown in landfills; it is a very odd and in many ways ridiculous.... kind of like a lot of things that were spawned from the British aristocracy.

 

I was in Italy a few years ago and it was amazing what people in that country do; even there front yards are converted to food production; wish we had the climate for that.

 

 

 

[canadensis]

I was in Italy a few years ago and it was amazing what people in that country do; even there front yards are converted to food production; wish we had the climate for that.

 

Well this is the thing. Canada is ridiculed as each individual having a big carbon footprint, but it is below 0* for half the year. Sure there is more we can do but with our geography and climate it makes alot of these initiatives very difficult, if not impossible.

[SupremeLeader]

Well this is the thing. Canada is ridiculed as each individual having a big carbon footprint, but it is below 0* for half the year. Sure there is more we can do but with our geography and climate it makes alot of these initiatives very difficult, if not impossible.

 

 

No worries, it won't below zero for long.

 

Actually the climate in Central and Northern Italy (where most of their agriculture is situated) is very similar to many regions in Canada. In fact, when you look at the actual ratio of land in the same planting Zones; we, in fact, have a considerably larger amount...and a lot less people.

 

The initiatives are difficult, but hardly close to being impossible.

 

 

 

[dryfly]

"No worries, it won't below zero for long."

 

The mean annual temperature in SW Alberta has been declining for 25 years. Yup..getting colder here.

[canadensis]

No worries, it won't below zero for long.

 

Actually the climate in Central and Northern Italy (where most of their agriculture is situated) is very similar to many regions in Canada. In fact, when you look at the actual ratio of land in the same planting Zones; we, in fact, have a considerably larger amount...and a lot less people.

 

The initiatives are difficult, but hardly close to being impossible.

 

 

Well then with how you are framing climate change in this discussion it will be a good thing.

[slingshotz]

For those that believe that raising your own food is not economically sound, have a look at the concept of food miles. Sure when oil is cheap, transport is cheap and the cost of transporting food is cheap but when it gets expensive even transporting food from BC becomes fairly expensive. Just ask any trucker/trucking company how they were hurting when oil prices went up over $100, not to mention the farmers paying for highly inflated fertilizer prices all based on oil.

 

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

 

I don't agree 100% with all the points in the website but there's lots of stuff that you have to think about and it's hard to sweep all the issues under the carpet. I'm not a hippy, eco-warrior, I drive a truck, don't car pool in my truck, work for a company that primarily works with oil companies BUT I also compost, recycle everything I can, grow a lot of my own food, eat mostly organic and local when possible and I do not preach the green values to everyone I meet as a religion. I hate it when people automatically lump people that do simple things like composting into the eco-fanatic crazy Greenpeace diehard category. My dad used to compost and raise his own veggies decades ago, but other than that he was as un-green as you can get.

[Ricinus]

So, everyone's happy with Monsanto, Maple Leaf and third world countries including China controlling our food supply?

 

Regards Mike

[bigbowtrout]

So, everyone's happy with Monsanto, Maple Leaf and third world countries including China controlling our food supply?

 

Regards Mike

 

I just had an awesome War Won Ton for lunch so for now I'm in.

 

[Ricinus]

I just had an awesome War Won Ton for lunch so for now I'm in.

 

 

LMAO

 

Regards Mike

[dryfly]

"So, everyone's happy with Monsanto, Maple Leaf and third world countries including China controlling our food supply?"

 

Not sure what is meant by that. Large companies do indeed produce a lot of food mostly via small family farms. Large companies hewed the wood and mined the "cement" my house is made from. Large companies made my vehicles, clothes, computers, TVs and print the book I read. The general reason is "economies of scale." Oh yes, most folks at FFC are employed by large companies.

 

Western European and North American (and elsewhere) food production is the most productive and efficient in the world. It provides safe, nutritious and inexpensive food to the masses. Less than 2 percent of Canadians supply food to 98 percent of the rest of us and also export a lot. The yields of safe, nutritious foods on modern farms is unbelievably high.

 

The LAST thing any of us want is to revert to a society where over 50 percent of the population is trying to produce food on small inefficient subsistence farms. They are an outrageously inefficient use of humans. I've seen it many times in Northern China, Mongolia and Central and South American countries.

 

In a cold northern climate, the concept of "food miles" (and 100-mile diet) is nothing more than a "feel good" statement with little practical application regarding feeding the vast majority of people. In winter a lot of our fresh food has to come from elsewhere. The Canadian Cancer Society tells use to eat five to ten servings of fresh fruits and veggies daily. We can store Canadian apples well for many months. We can do a great job supplying fresh potatoes (out of storage) for about 8 or 9 months. Carrots and cabbages store "okay" but storages are expensive and it becomes difficult to maintain quality after the early new Year. Oh yes and rutabagas store well. But you'd soon get tired of cabbage, rutabagas, carrots and spuds wouldn't you? You could live most healthily with these few veggies and apples.

 

Producing most vegetables in greenhouses in winter is simply not practical. The light levels are so low in our winters that crops (say cauliflower) that might take 80 days to grow in summer will take 150 pr more days in winter in a greenhouse..I've done it. Yet heating costs in greenhouses are very high in winter. We currently produce tomatoes, peppers and cukes from GHs about 9 to 10 months per year. These are very high-value crops that produce huge yields because of how they grow...they grow UPWARD and produce in a volume of space vs. on the ground like cabbage.

 

We do okay supplying animal meats 12 months per year. So we can get "local" meats and some produce year round. But most of what is in your refrigerator comes from somewhere else for most of the year. We can talk about "the 100-mile diet" at cocktail parties (and in the media), but TRY and abide by it in January. Not happening.

 

That does no mean we should not strive to increase production of locally grown produce for the few weeks a year we can realistically do that. It is hard work and most Canadians simply can make a lot more money working at a job ... to house and feed their family.

 

Clive

PS: This is not intended to be arrogant. Just reality and perspective. I wrote the first-ever handbook for market gardeners in Alberta in about 1973 and the first production guide for commercial vegetable producers in Alberta in 1978 and the first production guide for potato producers in Alberta in 1985. I have owned small tree farm and produced several "market garden" crops for sale at farmers markets. I've travelled to these countries as an observer and consultant in vegetable, potato and greenhouse crop production: Iceland, Ireland, several Canuck provinces, many US states, Mongolia (the country) and China. Seen it all. The good, the bad and the ugly. We have it VERY good here regarding food production.

 

Be thankful this weekend...and every day.

[reevesr1]

Clive,

You are obviously a whore of big corporations and as such are not rational. Good day to you sir!

 

 

[dryfly]

"You are obviously a whore of big corporations and as such are not rational."

 

HA HA. And I am in great company!

 

I generally despise big companies. But, the alternative is not swell either. I am no damn good at making shoes and hewing wood and water and milling corn and drilling for oil.

 

 

[Ricinus]

Hi Clive,

Not even going to try and argue about your expertise is these areas and I am a firm believer in market gardeners and their produce.

 

My complaint is if I want to buy a non-GM food food unless I buy Organic, it is not possible. It is not required to be labelled due some very heavy lobbying by food processors.

I find it it unsettling that chemical producers like Monsanto etal are now selling seed to farmers with VERY strict conditions. I think we are losing our diversity in seed etc. I do not like the idea that one or two mega corps are slowly taking over food supply.

 

My comment about China and other third world producers is concern about the lack of regulations about what can and cannot be used on food crops.

It also bothers me that we are becoming totally dependent on them for our food.

 

Fresh food is not necessary the best food as far as nutrition. In order to withstand the rigors of shipping, fruits and veggies are picked early and may be a variety that is best for transport and not taste etc. You are better off in some cases using frozen foods which are picked at there peak.

 

My local chicken supplier was shut down by a marketing board as he got too popular and my beef/bison supplier quit because he could make a decent living. McCains and High Liner are allowed to buy frozen fish in a 1 cubic meter from God knows where, process it and market it as "Made in Canada"

 

I agree we have the best food production and safety in the world, but my concern is that is being eroded by cheap and not necessarily safe imports.

 

Regards Mike

[SupremeLeader]

I think the outlook for urban gardens is not so bad as it seems. The 100 mile diet is hardly a 'feel good' statement; it is a fantastic concept and positive in so many ways. It encourages people to support their local economy and consider all of their decisions instead of making blind purchases. The 100 mile diet is also not some sort of strict regime...it is a philosophy to encourage people to consider the impact of their choices.

 

Last year, I grew lettuce, arugala, and spinach indoors; enough to have salad almost every night. In the recent advances in energy efficient LED grow lights, the possibilities for urban gardens are going to really expand. I'm very excited.

 

I had this discussion on this board before, but to reiterate, I grew so many vegetables this year I had trouble keeping up. I have given lots away which is a good thing in my opinion, food is a great gift.

 

What I still have in storage could easily feed the members in our household for two months; this would mean eating canned beets, potatoes, zucchini, pumpkins etc. for a long time....but in an emergency we could easily survive from these items. Using your green space to produce food is great even if it's a small amount and it is a healthy way to eat. Grass on the other hand is not so healthy; that said there are methods to extract some pretty interesting drugs from lawn clippings.

 

I am really into urban gardening and I consider myself to be quite skilled at it; it is serious work and you need to be devoted to your project. It is not a novelty or something you work on once in a while.

 

I do agree with you Clive in many ways, but I think you're being a little pessimistic. The 100 mile diet / Urban gardening is not for everyone, but it can be a viable, healthy, and certainly energy saving method of food production if done properly.

 

You have to admit in considering all of the fresh produce that we import from Africa, Brazil, New Zealand etc. it is almost gluttonous, especially considering your point that our food production is the most productive/efficient. In other countries, many of which we import produce from, people are starving.

[Taco]

 

Thats not quite the one you sent me

[Guest Sundancefisher]

I think the outlook for urban gardens is not so bad as it seems. The 100 mile diet is hardly a 'feel good' statement; it is a fantastic concept and positive in so many ways. It encourages people to support their local economy and consider all of their decisions instead of making blind purchases. The 100 mile diet is also not some sort of strict regime...it is a philosophy to encourage people to consider the impact of their choices.

 

Last year, I grew lettuce, arugala, and spinach indoors; enough to have salad almost every night. In the recent advances in energy efficient LED grow lights, the possibilities for urban gardens are going to really expand. I'm very excited.

 

I had this discussion on this board before, but to reiterate, I grew so many vegetables this year I had trouble keeping up. I have given lots away which is a good thing in my opinion, food is a great gift.

 

What I still have in storage could easily feed the members in our household for two months; this would mean eating canned beets, potatoes, zucchini, pumpkins etc. for a long time....but in an emergency we could easily survive from these items. Using your green space to produce food is great even if it's a small amount and it is a healthy way to eat. Grass on the other hand is not so healthy; that said there are methods to extract some pretty interesting drugs from lawn clippings.

 

I am really into urban gardening and I consider myself to be quite skilled at it; it is serious work and you need to be devoted to your project. It is not a novelty or something you work on once in a while.

 

I do agree with you Clive in many ways, but I think you're being a little pessimistic. The 100 mile diet / Urban gardening is not for everyone, but it can be a viable, healthy, and certainly energy saving method of food production if done properly.

 

You have to admit in considering all of the fresh produce that we import from Africa, Brazil, New Zealand etc. it is almost gluttonous, especially considering your point that our food production is the most productive/efficient. In other countries, many of which we import produce from, people are starving.

 

Our peas did great this year even in a poor location. Our raspberries were awesome. Our carrot and pumpkins and peppers were all killed off by slugs. Chives and onions did good.

[dube]

So lets see- We live in a small, older home (1200s.f.) that has been updated with new windows, high eff. Furnace, raise probably half of our veggies, I kill all my own meat every year; We definitely live within our means. My cheapness has made me way `greener` than most of the eco weenies that are just now starting to catch on to this new coolness now. And yes I wash my hair every day, wear deodorant, no dredlocks. Anyways, this is a whole other discussion.

 

See, you'd be a perfect candidate to do this.

 

I'm going to throw this out here just as a random thought although it was not me who had it, interesting none the less. With some serious modifications a multi-story high rise could be a self contained farm. One giant, growing, composting, fertilizing- food production/recycling plant. Say you could produce enough food to feed a 10 block radius. By products from certain crops could be used in the production of the next. Obviously would run perfect until that moment when it didn't any more for some tragic reason and there would be headlines, but when you consider how much space traditional farming takes it's food for thought. If things went south you could lock it down and kill everything off, sterilize and start over.

 

You can take this as far as you want but the main idea is that we are conscious of what we do and do our best to leave as little trace as we can. It's not so different than catch and release fishing. We don't let the fish go because we are bleeding heart fanatics who would never kill a fish, but because we want to come back next year and catch it again.

Every step you take has an impact and I think it's good to try and do things to balance it out a bit.

I think the main problem with this concept is that our climate is a bit harsh up here, growing season short.

 

 

 

[hydropsyche]

Whether its economically viable or not isn't the issue here. Thats the chicken raisers' concern. The issue is if someone should be banned from doing it without just cause. This has been a very interesting thread so far but I haven't seen any arguments justifying forcing my neighbour to twist his chickens' necks. Disease, noise, neglect (and scorn for hippy tree huggers :-) ) are the only arguments I've seen so far and that can happen with cat ladies and puppy mills.

 

If anything should be banned, it should be body piercings, hip-hop and mohawks (what's with that, anyway?)

[dryfly]

Good points from all.

 

Taco Taco taco .. I may have the original somewhere.

 

Just some quick comments to Mike....IN CAPS .. NOT A FLAME..

 

My complaint is if I want to buy a non-GM food food gm THE LOSS OF SOME GM PRODUCE SUCH AS POTATOES WAS A CRYING SHAME. OUTSTANDING TECHNOLOGY THAT COULD ALL BUT ELIMINATE THE USE OF INSECTICIDES. AND THE PUBLIC QUASHED THE NEW GM SPUD LINES. WAS A SHAME. THE NEGATIVE MEDIA ATTITUDE COVERAGE OF GM FOODS WAS UNFORTUNATE AND UNCALLED FOR. MAN HAS BEEN ALTERING CROPS FOR A COUPLE OF THOUSAND YEARS. MOST GM APPS WERE MINOR CHANGES THAT COULD HAVE REDUCED PESTICIDE USE. GM TECHNOLOGY 'GENERALLY' IS A GOOD THING AND THE USE OF THE TERM 'FRANKENFOODS' BY GREENPEACE (?) WAS ABSURD.

 

I find it it unsettling that chemical producers like Monsanto etal are now selling seed to farmers with VERY strict conditions. LIKE WHAT? THERE ARE RESTRICTIONS ON REPLANTING. NO DIFFERENT THAN BUYING A BOOK. YOU CAN'T MAKE A PHOTOCOPY OF IT. FARMERS WANT THE BEST POSSIBLE SEED TO GROW PROFITABLE CROPS AT THE LOWEST COST. HI-END SEEDS ARE OFTEN WORTH EVERY PENNY TO PRODUCERS.

 

I think we are losing our diversity in seed etc. THERE IS MORE DIVERSITY IN POTATO GENETICS (FOR EXAMPLE) TODAY THAN AT ANY TIME IN HISTORY. THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF POTATO VARIETIES WORLDWIDE AND BREEDERS INCORPORATE GENES FROM WILD STRAINS TO IMPROVE DISEASE RESISTANCE AND ENHANCE EDIBILITY OR NUTRITION. TELL ME YOU DON'T LIKE TODAY'S SWEET CORN BETTER THAN 30 YEARS AGO. HUGE IMPROVEMENTS IN SUGAR LEVELS AND "BEST BEFORE...." OLD CORN VARIETIES WERE SO STARCHY AFTER ONE DAY THEY WERE INEDIBLE. I do not like the idea that one or two mega corps are slowly taking over food supply. THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF FOOD MAJORS IN THE WORLD. A FEW CONTROL A LOT OF PRODUCTION FOR SURE.

 

My comment about China and other third world producers is concern about the lack of regulations about what can and cannot be used on food crops. TOTALLY VALID. I HAVE SEEN THINGS THAT DISTURB ME IN CHINA. WE ARE IMPORTING SNOW PEAS FROM CHINA. IT IS RIDICULOUS. A CASE CAN BE MADE FOR TRUCKING CARROTS FROM (SAY) CALIFORNIA (INEXPENSIVE AND CHEAPER THAN STORING LOCAL CARROTS FOR SEVERAL MONTHS) .. BUT CHINA? IT SCARES ME A BIT. AND THAT BASTARD Galen Weston HAS THE NERVE TO TELL US THAT SUPER STORE BUYS "FROM A FARM NEAR YOU" I DO NOT LIKE Galen Weston AT ALL...YUPPIE BILLIONAIRE. I WROTE THOSE BASTARDS AT SUPER STORE LAST YEAR BECAUSE THEY DID NOT HAVE A "GROWN LOCALLY" SIGN ON ALBERTA GREENHOUSE TOMATOES AND PEPPERS AND YET THEY HAD "GROWN ON A FARM NEAR YOU" OVER SOME MANGOES FROM COSTA RICA AND ORANGES FROM CALIFORNIA. THEY NEVER REPLIED. THAT STUFF REALLY TICKE ME OFF AND I LET 'EM KNOW. THREE WEEKS AGO I STOMPED OVER TO THE 'CUSTOMER SERVICE' COUNTER AT OUR S/S AND SOMEWHAT POLITELY SAID "THIS PLUM WAS GROWN IN CALIFORNIA. [iT HAD A STICKER ON IT.] IT HAS A SIGN OVER IT TELLING US IT WAS LOCAL AND EVEN HAD A MAPLE LEAF ON THE SIGN. CHANGE THE SIGN." WE SHOUDL ALL POINT THIS BULLSHIT OUT AT THE STORE LEVEL.

 

It also bothers me that we are becoming totally dependent on them for our food. WE COULD DO WELL WITHOUT CHINA. BUT WE DO RELY ON PLACES LIKE CHILE (GRAPES) AND CENTRAL AMERICA FOR MANY FRUITS IN WINTER. IT IS A PERSONAL CHOICE. WE CAN INDEED BY B.C. APPLES MOST OF THE YEAR AND WE CAN GET SOME CARROTS AND CABBAGE GROWN IN WESTERN CANADA FOR SEVERAL MONTHS. (BTW..THE BASSANO GROWER CARROTS HAVE BEEN GREAT. $3 FOR 5 POUNDS OF GOOD TASTING CARROTS!! TRY 'EM.)

 

Fresh food is not necessary the best food as far as nutrition. In order to withstand the rigors of shipping, fruits and veggies are picked early and may be a variety that is best for transport and not taste etc. You are better off in some cases using frozen foods which are picked at there peak. EXCELLENT POINT. PROCESSED FOODS INDEED HOLD MANY ADVANTAGES FOR CONSUMERS. TAKE (SAY) FROZEN PEAS. THEY ARE FLASH FROZEN WITHIN 2 HOURS OF HARVEST. MOST OTHER FROZEN VEGGIES ARE PROCESSED WITHIN HOURS AND NUTRITION IS LOCKED IN. (I LIKE FROZEN STRAWBERRIES NUKED WITH HONEY. YUM!)

 

THE MEDIA HAS ABUSED PROCESSED FOODS A LOT AND IT IS UNWARRANTED. YES, I PREFER FRESH VEGGIES AS DO YOU I BET. WE BUY MOSTLY FRESH. BUT PROCESSING ADDS TO OUR ABILITY TO BUY "LOCAL" ALL YEAR..OR AT LEAST CANADIAN. I REALLY LIKE FROZEN SPINACH. GREAT STUFF. WE BUY IT QUITE OFTEN.

 

My local chicken supplier was shut down by a marketing board as he got too popular and my beef/bison supplier quit because he could make a decent living. PROBABLY BECAUSE HIS SMALL-SCALE COST OF PRODUCTION WERE RELATIVELY HIGH. McCains and High Liner are allowed to buy frozen fish in a 1 cubic meter from God knows where, process it and market it as "Made in Canada" I DON'T THINK MCAINS DO FISH BUT COULD BE WRONG. (I CAN'T EAT FISH SO WOULDN'T KNOW). THE "PRODUCT OF CANADA" LAWS ARE ABSURD AS WENDY MESLEY TOLD US. THE PROCESSORS BUY BIN RUN POLLACK (WTF THAT IS??) AND ADD CRUMBLES TO IT AND CALL IT "PRODUCT OF CANADA." NONSENSE.

 

I agree we have the best food production and safety in the world, but my concern is that is being eroded by cheap and not necessarily safe imports. WE REALLY DO HAVE A SAFE AND INEXPENSIVE FOOD SUPPLY.

 

"cheap ... imports" THAT IS MAINLY A FUNCTION OF CONSUMER DEMAND. WE WANT CHEAP FOOD. WE ALL HAVE THE CHOICE TO NOT BUY IMPORTS.

 

" not necessarily safe imports. " THIS IS A MAJOR CONCERN OF US ALL. BUT C.F.I.A. CAN ONLY DO SO MUCH INSPECTING DUE TO BUDGETS. I TRUST FOOD FROM MOST PLACES. I'D EAT CHILEAN GRAPES ANY DAY HAVING SEE HOW THEY OPERATE..TOP-DRAWER. I'VE BEEN TO CHINA TWELVE TIMES AND LEARY OF ANYTHING FROM CHINA. WE HAVE PURCHASED THE SNOW PEAS BECAUSE THEY SHOULD NOT REQUIRE ANY BUG CONTROL. BUT I HAVE WITNESSED UNSAFE PESTICIDE APPLICATIONS IN NORTHERN CHINA. UNSAFE TO THE OPERATORS FOR SURE AND YOU CAN BE SURE MANY OF THE REGS (SAY, 'DAYS TO HARVEST') ARE IGNORED. AND ONE ASSUMES THAT IMPORTERS DO NOT ASK THE CHINESE EXPORTERS FOR PRODUCTION RECORDS..THEY NOT BE ACCURATE ANYWAY.

 

Food is a fun topic. Mike .. there is a lot of misconception about food. It is complex. Most folks have few clues about how food is produce and how complex production is.

 

Off topic a bit. I am not sure if this is in place right now..we are close. You could take a bag of frozen french fries and find out the following about it: where the seed came from, planting date, fertilizers used and pest control products uses, rates and app dates, harvest dates and where it was stored and in what part of a specific storage it came from and when it came out of storage and when it was processed.

 

Mike ... BTW .. I wrote a "codes of practice" for the potato industry a few years ago. You can get a copy here.

 

Even a comment on GM spuds.

 

I am a food expert .. just ask my bathroom scales.

 

Best

 

Clive

 

 

 

[canadensis]

Wow Clive!

 

Very educational. Thanks for taking the time.

[rundleff]

Any chickens going feral won't last the winter, would they?

[dube]

Clive, I don't disagree with anything you are saying but you are talking about food at a national level. On a more grass roots level people can do this in their own in their backyards and it can be very rewarding.

 

Jenny, my 92 year old neighbor and egg pusher, grows a garden every year. Tomatoes, potatoes, beet, peas, green beans, carrot, cabbage, zucchini. She mentioned some "fancy" red potato she planted this year. Red flesh....the story takes some time to tell and I'm anticipating a small sample very soon.

Anyway when the food is in season you eat it as it comes and about now she harvests the rest and starts freezing and canning. I'm lucky enough to be good buddies with Jenny and also shovel her walks in the winter so I get food, real local food all year long. I get cabbage rolls (the rice she likes is hard to find, sometimes she goes to those "chinese" stores. Peroghy- potato and cheese (cheese is so god darn expensive now but you have to use cheddar or they are no good). I just got a shipment of canned tomatoes as well as salsa and usually the beets and pickles from last year start rolling in within the next month.

 

This idea is not new but I feel this is part of us that is slowly slipping away. On a huge scale food production is mind boggling but on a community level there is so much we can do to support a local population. Even if it means getting to be buddies with your neighbor. Jenny really doesn't really know any other way. Imagine having your neighbor reach over the fence and hand you a couple eggs on saturday morning.

 

I feel this concept is about being more human less machine. Of course the machine still has to run and I'll trust fellows like Clive to handle the big picture but we can each do our part to take care of ourselves where ever we can.