OneMoreLastCast

You can tell your Mom and even your Grandma about last night's double header.

Very good point Clive. When I said it was not a great post as others stated, I really meant it was not necessarily a great "Thread". Let me explain. I completely agree that it was a really good article and a great read that really made people think. I also agree that the the question asked was very relevant, but the problem I had was some of the responses that stated that people definitely felt guilt concerning Fishing, and that is each individual's right. I just don't believe that doing something that you feel guilty doing is right, or healthy for that matter. As I said, "I don't mean to Offend", which usually means that I know what I am about to write will offend, and of course I read into it a little deeper possibly because it was written with religious overtones. I can't honestly say whether my reaction, and possibly other's reactions would have been different if the article was posted by DoctorEE or PlumberEE, rather than RabbiEE, but I just had a problem with Guilt being the overall reason driving the feelings discussed. I understand that it was the question posed to Eric by others and the article was his response. I was just surprised by how many people replied that they did feel guilty, but still fished and my statement was aimed at any individual that feels guilty, and maybe they should reconsider fishing if they felt this way. Here's a few thoughts I've had since this thread started. 1. When releasing a fish in the lakes in BC, more than once a Loon has scooped in and had that beautiful fish for a meal. Do I feel guilty that I might have caused that fish to die? I feel happy that I just supplied the Loon with a meal. 2. There have been times when I release a fish on a river and know that the fish's chances of survival are slim. Do I feel guilty that the fish will most likely not survive? No, because as we know, nature will take care of it and it will now enter into the circle of life whether it be to feed another animal, fertilize the plant life or what ever Mother Nature has in mind for it now. I look at it as possibly saving another fish, because the Osprey, Loon, Bear, etc. that might have fed on the fish I just released, won't have to kill a healthy fish. 3. Most of us have killed wildlife in our vehicles, whether it be a small bird or a Deer. We are not going to stop driving right. As Clive said, If We don't ask the Question, others will for us....For every question, there is often going to be debates and opposition, and that is how we get answers. By so many showing a vested interest in this topic, if "They" asked this question, it would not go unanswered.

If you're Fly Fishing and look over your shoulder and see someone is watching you while hiding in the bushes behind you....You're okay with it. If you see someone has a longer Rod than you, you're okay with it. If you catch the tip of your rod in the tail gate, it doesn't mean a trip to the hospital. If you are Logged onto a Fly Fishing Forum late at night and your Spouse walks in on you, you don't have to have an alternative webpage on stand by to bring up to hide what you were really looking at....

Yes sir, and try not to say what you "think someone else meant"....

A couple more. First one I like because there is nothing like the feeling of watching a Rainbow pushing 30 inches swim away. The second picture is the same fish from Toolman's Pictures caught at night last week. Plus, it was the first under water fish pic I took with my new camera. I need some practice as you would see if I posted my other attempts. Nice Big Bow river Rainbow Old Pig Nose underwater at night.

You're a class act Eric. In my travels I have had some good healthy debates with the fine people in the Jewish community and I was hoping you wouldn't take any offense to anything I wrote. This will offend some, but I am sure I wouldn't have made the same comments in response if the article/post was made by someone of other faiths because I know they would not have taken any opposition as well as you. Knowing, and hoping you would take it as you did allowed me, and others, to speak their minds. Thank you.

I agree with Rick on the pain issue. Of course fish feel pain, but it is not the same pain and understanding of what is happening compared to what we feel. For example, take a gaff hook comparable in scale to you as a size 8 hook is to an average trout. Stick it in your upper lip and put comparable pressure on it for 2 minutes. Now tell me how long it is before you feel like eating? Many of us have hooked and either released or lost fish, only to catch them again within a couple hours. I don't know how it was done, but a fish biologist once told me that trout do not have feeling in their upper mouth, so if hooked in the upper lip, they potentially don't feel anything. Like I said, I don't know how the study was done or how conclusions were found, but if true, it would explain why a fish goes back to feeding right away. I didn't mean to sound judgemental of RabbiEE's Faith, becuase I in no way meant to. It might be wrong, but I was generalizing on the guilt being used to run a person's conscience whether they have a faith or not. So if I did sound judgemental, I apologize and please don't take it that way. I would have felt similar whether or not the article was written by a Rabbi or not. As far as it being humane to kill fish to eat, I am torn on that one. Personally, I don't know anyone that "Needs" to keep a wild fish in order to eat. If that is the goal, to eat, save your money on Fly Fishing gear and go down to Safeway. Keep and eat fish you catch because you want to, you like the taste of a nice high mountain stream trout, because it is good for the fishery, etc., but I seriously can't buy into someone putting the fish out of its misery as quickly as possible being considered more humane than releasing a fish.

Very well said Pipestone. I agree with most of what he says, and I too found that it was tough to get the words for what I wanted to say correct. The only thing I really want to say is that I think people should do the right thing because it is the right thing to do. I know this is driven by ethics and morals, but that can be taught or passed down by just teaching that it is the right thing to do and not using guilt as a motivator.

I agree that it is indeed a well written article and I was thankful to have something like it to read at work, (being that I just sit here and wait for something good to get posted). It did as you said, got me thinking. I said I don't mean to offend, and I don't. I just see a lot of contradicting points in the original post, and some of the ones that followed. I am not religious at all and would never judge someone for their chosen faith. I just find it a little hypicritical for someone with a faith that obviously believes in God, to say that they feel guilty for doing something like fly fishing. If they truly had strong belief in their faith, I would think that they would not feel any guilt at all when it comes to fishing. I would think they would think along the same lines as God put Cows on earth to feed us, etc., thus it would make more sense to me if they were to say that they don't feel any guilt because God put fish in the Waters to feed us and/or provide us with a reason to enjoy nature, (One of his creations), whether you keep the fish or not. As I said, I am not religious, but have studied it and continue to study for my own reasons, (You may have noticed the ring on my finger). I don't judge anyone for their beliefs or faith, but IMO, if you post an article, well written or not, with religious overtones, you're bound to get people that strongly agree, and/or strongly disagree. Trust me, I could debate this type of thing 'til the cows come home, but won't. (Who am I kidding, I probably will) I didn't mean it to sound like I was jumping all over him by saying I didn't agree that it was a great post. I just disagree pretty strongly on some of the feelings RabbiEE expresses in the article, where at the same time, there were things that I really agreed with as well. This is why I had a bit of a problem with the post itself. It touched on the aspects of fishing that we all love, but threw in the guilt factor that I believe noone should feel when fishing. I am just happy that I can live my life without suffering from these types of feelings, (and yes, you do sense some undertones there).

You may have caught something fairly rare. As it is known, the Bow river's Rainbows came to be in the river because of that fateful trainwreck in 1920. The fish were supposed to be stocked in some Park lakes but instead were stocked in the Bow to save them. They did well and thus, we have great great grandchildren of those first Steelhead that were stocked that you may have been lucky enough to catch. I don't know if you've ever been Steelie fishing, but this fish looks a lot like one to me. It also has kind of a Grilse texture like you say, but I can't see that being the case. Now I can't wait for October....No Crowds and big Steelies.....mmmmm.

Well Done Dave. Feels good doesn't it? It's been a long time since I had anything in print, so I'm a little jealous, but happy for you. September 1st is too far away. I wish Fusion came out every two weeks. It's damn hard to find good reading material on the magazine racks these days.

Sorry if this offends, but I don’t agree that this is a great post. Thought provoking yes, but great, I have to say no IMO. If you ask the question whether or not fishing is humane or not, and saying that sometimes you feel guilty, I believe that you do feel it is not humane and should not be doing it. Having decided that it isn't humane and feeling guilty yourself, deep down, you must feel that noone should be doing it, thus the post on a board like this one, full of people that love to fish. If you feel guilty while doing something, you should not be doing it and should have made that decision before you began doing what you would feel guilty about doing. I would never judge anyone for hunting, but I know that I would not feel right personally doing it, so I don't. If someone decides to hunt, good on them, it's just not for me. Although I don't hunt myself, I definitely understand the love for it, the need for it and really like it when someone shares their meat with me. I respect everything involved in fishing, and never take it for granted. The last feeling I could ever imagine having while fishing is guilt. The fact is that we are the top dogs on this beautiful planet and hooking a fish is so far from something any human being should be feeling guilty about compared, to everything else going on out there. We continue to multiply and encroach on wild lands and water, often if it wasn't for fisherman, the fish would not be there to be caught. I have no regrets and feel no guilt for anything I've done, or will do in the future, because if I knew that it might cause feelings like you say you experience while fishing, I didn’t do it and won’t in the future. I live my life to be happy and make the people around me happy. By being active in the conservation of the waters I love to fish, I can ensure that those waters will be properly maintained and conserved so that my great grandchildren can hopefully share some of my experiences. Please don't get me wrong, I respect your feelings and opinion, I just don't share them. I want to look forward, to looking back.

It would be difficult for your buddy, but I can't see even the A-Holes out there not understanding the situation and being accomadating if they knew his situation. If he is alright with it, I would recommend nicely letting the other anglers in the area know his situation and hopefully they would give way. I know it would be tough for him. My Mom is in a wheel chair and my brother works with disabled kids, so I know how pride might not allow this, but I personally think this would be a situation where letting others know should be fine and everyone can enjoy this great passion we all share here.

One thing I like to do when I encounter difficult fish in Shallow water is cast a smaller streamer, like a good old "Mickey Finn" or very small clouser from downstream, but off to their side about 5 to 8 feet. Cast it to the side and up ahead of them only a couple of feet. As soon as it hits the water, start stripping it back with erratic little strips. Even if they aren't actively feeding, this often will entice a strike and get them to leave the comfort zone they are sitting in. Another option is to loop around upstream out of the fish's site lines and belly crawl to about 5 feet from the shoreline. Now cast a fly that will skate on the surface and cast slightly upstream and out, letting only the leader hit the water and skate the fly to the fish in a downstream swing. You will have to sneak in fairly close to the fish and you might have to use a sling shot cast in order to stay hidden, but it works. You can also try casting from downstream from back away from the shoreline, letting only the leader hit the water, (Assuming the fish is fairly tight to the bank). Another technique I've had success with is, assuming the shallow water you speak of has a fairly slow current as well. Tie on a heavy weighted streamer like a leech pattern or Wooley Bugger and cast it off to its side as described above. Let it sink to the bottome and leave it there. If the fish spooks a bit, or if it doesn't, let the fly sit for a couple of minutes and then start to strip it back to you. Once the fish has gotten comfortable, it will be more likely to strike your fly. Just remember, the fish most likely knows you are there, or that something different is there, so the goal is to trick it into thinking everything is as much back to normal as possible. The last advice I can give is to know when you're beat. I can't count the number of times I spent valuable fishing time casting to fish that weren't going to be caught. On the other hand, it's a great feeling of accomplishment when you do succeed with these difficult fish. You just have to remember that it's only one or two fish, and there are thousands of other catchable fish out there.

I have to throw in Sublime as well, because like Dube said, if it's hot, Sublime always hits the spot. I have found myself listening for music that would fit well into my fishing video's that I am in the process of cutting up and shooting. Every once in awhile a song comes on that instantly puts a scene in my head that I decide I "Need" to shoot. Hopefully I get some ideas from this thread for some more.

Nice stories Rick. I love Grandpa Stories, and it seems we had similar characters as Grandfathers. We'll have to swap some stories over some beer around a campfire in September....By coincidence, we'll be in his ol' stompin' grounds. I'm glad it wasn't that tough to get my Union card a couple decades ago....

Celine Dion on the Way down and on the Way home.... I couldn't pick one artist, I like a good mix myself. It would be mostly Punk/Alternative. A little Bad Religion, mixed with some newer stuff.....and of course some Chili Peppers as well. Anything but Classic Rock though.

Be warned if your wives get deep into fly fishing.... You won't be able to go out and buy those fishing "Accessories" that you "Really need", because if she gets too educated, she'll know that you don't need them I'm lucky that my wife lost interest after a few fish and said it wasn't for her. She comes occassionally, but usually just reads a book on the bank, so I can still spend recklessly on equipment and accessories that I "Want"...errr, I mean "need". "Honey, my rod has pretty much had it, so I think I'll go down to Gord's and pick up that new T & T H2".... "How much?......and didn't you just get a new Sage?" "It was over $1000 bucks, but if I pick it up now, He'll give it to me for $850, and that Sage was a gift from a client and is totally the wrong type of rod for the fishing I do."..... "What Ever" A few of my buddies on the other hand, not so lucky.

It's too bad that you didn't have a plan B in place, but now that you found this board, you should be able to put one in place for next time. Unfortunately, there are people out there, (and here), that have no respect for others that share the same passion as they. Often, we post advice on where to fish, hoping that the people taking the advice aren't like the people we talk about in these posts. When I post a location to a new fisherman that is asking, I like to throw in some advice on manners/etiquette as I did in a post, (by coincidence), on Policeman's Flats. http://flyfishcalgary.com/board/index.php?...post&p=5893 I agree that confrontation isn't the way to go. I would just move on because win or lose, I would feel pretty stupid after the fact thinking that the confrontation was over "fishing". I fish to fish. I fought in the ring all my life, so if I wanted a fight, I'd just climb back in the ring. I saw two guys get into it a few years ago on the bank. One guy left all pissed off and the other guy left shortly after. I happened to be walking by the second fellow on my way upstream and he was laughing. I asked him what he was laughing at and he said that the other guy beat the hell out of "His Truck". When I asked him why he thought that was funny, he said, "My Wife dropped me off". So some other angler was going to get back to find a pretty nasty surprise waiting at the end of their day of fishing because some guy with rage issues picked the wrong truck.

Ummm.....You are gonna put a shirt on when we hit the river right? I had a beauty going, but after 45 degree weather in Vegas and swimming in the pool with the kids, it filled in. So it's not too impressive anymore. I'm just making an assumption, but I have to believe a call to Guiness might be in order if Max decides to post a pic.

I agree. Although it sucks sometimes to lose a fish that you really wanted to see up close, I get great satisfaction out of having a big fish that I've snuck up on take my presentation. Especially a Big Spooky Brown sitting tight to a bank sipping on mystery emergers. I boxed all my life and have played poker for years, so I started using comparisons to these when it comes to landing fish. They go along your line of thinking kind of. In boxing, it sucks to get knocked out, (Personally don't know how it feels ), especially in the early rounds. My trainer said to me once, "If you get knocked out trying to win the fight, so be it. It's better than not trying to win and getting the shite kicked out of you for round after round after round, only to lose a decision". In poker I have a similar comparison. If you get knocked out of a tournament really early it sucks, but it sucks more playing for many hours only to go out one or two spots away from making the money. Both comparisons are saying what Toolman said. It is not so bad to lose the fish after a short fight, compared to a long drawn out fight and losing it at your feet. It's nice to see an experienced fisherman like yourself adapt and change techniques and theories. That's what I love about Fly Fishing. You can learn for the rest of your life if you're willing. As you've seen Toolman, I either lose the fish right away, or it's in my hand right away. Even with an old, little rod like mine you can get them in quick with practice. I'm too lazy to chase a fish, I just figure I'll get him next time. The one night was funny with Max fishing below me when I hooked into a good fish. The fish started downstream and I knew he was gone, so I just stood with a smile on my face and let him go. Turned around and started casting to the next one. There was no use chasing him through Max's water and stirring his run up, plus....when you're beat, you're beat. Although, there are times when I feel like a good fight and enjoy a good battle, and I'll take the extra measures to land a fish..... See you later this week and we can test out some new landing techniques

Those bears better watch their backs when my Wife goes for her Saskatoons. If you think that Big Griz looked scared of the Momma Cougar, wait'll you see the look on their faces when they see my wife walking up with bucket in hand. mmmm....Saskatoon Pie. I agree with Rusty though. I like Wild Strawberries so much, I planted a bunch in the backyard. So good when I can get to them before the kids.

Too bad you couldn't find a good spot on the "Fabled" Elk Trib and I'm glad to see you made it out okay, since you were by yourself. Just so you know for next time, it's the second most populated Grizzly Bear Valley in North America, next to the Flat Head Valley. I didn't figure the Classified Waters thing would deter us for too long. It's always Albertans fishing that river because the BC boys know the really good creeks in the area. Nice pics. I wish I had a picture of a bug we found up there a few years ago. We name it the "Tammy Fay Baker" Bug, (Rest her sole). It had the body of a bumble bee, great big eyes with these really weird eyelash things coming out of its head. I've never seen anything like it and have never found it in any searches. We were going to keep it to show people, but then we started thinking it might be the "Last" one of its kind and let it go. The river fishes great BTW in the fall when the water levels come down, so hopefully you get another chance to try it out.

I'm up tying flies in my hotel room and figured I'd share a secret for catching more fish at this time of year. I don't have the means to post me tying, but you can't get better than A.K Best. Hopefully this helps you catch more fish. Nice to see I'm not the only one still using an Old School vise....for now. Got the new rotary waiting for me when I get home. Enjoy

I am not sure how I am being judgemental. It started with a question and then a few replies, with mostly opinions on whether or not someone chooses to use a pump or not. There were some posts on different people's mindsets on "Matching the Hatch" or picking a good attractor or imitation, compared to an exact imitation, (which is great to see how other anglers think). Then you step in and state that what you stated, (which was not based on any fact), with nothing to back up your statement. It was like someone that butts into the middle of a conversation to say what they have to say, whether it has anything to do with the conversation or not. The statement about being judgemental about other fly fishermen is simple. By making a statement like you did, you are coming across as judging a person that might use a pump. Only a Biologist or a Fly Fisherman would use a Pump, so you must be pointing your judgement at other fly fishermen, (or Biologists I guess), that use pumps. I really didn't even pay attention to the other thread. I posted my thoughts, which were directly at people that would let other fishermen that "crowd" them wreck their day. It wasn't in any way directed at the posts that directed someone to tell others to F@*k off, etc. It's all fine and dandy to have a little fun here, and if you find it fun to do what you did in the other thread, so be it, continue doing it if you like. But that is totally different than coming in and making a statement that has the potential to take the thread in a different direction from the original purpose....and as you can see, it has, but that is my fault. As far as being relaxed. You have no idea how relaxed a person I am, as anyone on this board that knows me can attest to. I am done with this particular discussion. If we can get back to the original idea of the topic, that would be great. No hard feelings. BTW Weedy. Nice reads, thanks.