PeteZahut Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 I think I probably already know what the answer is but thought I would ask anyways. I have found fairly consistently in the past that when I put on a new leader I often break it when cinching the knot at the fly. This happens more often when I upsize the fly I am using. I don't know the name of the knot I use and so I don't know if that has anything to do with it. I also do wet the knot before cinching it tight. Does anyone know why this is happening? Should I be tying on some tippet to better match the size of the hook? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rundleff Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 You should be using some tippet. It'll extend the life of your leader as well. It sounds like you are putting too much pressure on the knot. Do you use some saliva to lube it before you cinch? Maybe a Duncan loop for those lager flies would work better for ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrinhurst Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 I find the times that my tippet breaks the most, is when I pull a new length off the spool. Any of the "tag" end that was exposed from the spool I find quite brittle. I've gotten into the habit of trimming it down past that point to recuduce the breakage. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Usually the second effort is just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rickleblanc Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Hey PeteZahut, what kind of leader are you using? There are some types I wouldn't tell my worst enemy to use. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdock Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 I've had this issue at times as well. The tag end tends to get beat up a bit, at least in my old vest. I used to just snip off a couple of inches and then the problem went away. I now have my tippet in a nice little pouch of its own and problem solved. I also used to have my tippet on a spool on the outside of my vest and that was much worse as it got beat up pretty bad from the trees, weeds, and sun. Storage solved my issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverDoctor Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 The problem is more than likely UV damage than anything. I believe those tippet holders on the outside of your vest where put out by the tippet companies so you have to replace tippet spools. If you have one throw it away or use it for something else. Keep it stored in the dark. Even ends hanging out are no good. Try and experiment. tie a bit of tippet to our vest for a couple of weeks then compare it to material that has been stored in the dark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwell Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 i agree with silver doc... uv light kills tippet and leaders.. keep it in your pocket somewere away from the light... salive like other have mentioned will help brom scorching your tippet when drawing a knot tight aswell! but old tippet is junk no matter what you do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigershark Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 I used to get very frustrated with my leader always breaking at the double surgeons knot where I tied the tippet on- rather than at the fly, often resulting in two lost flies. I think my problem was sometimes using florocarbon tippet on a regular mono leader or maybe my knots are just getting better as i doesn't happen as much anymore. But still happens once in a while that my surgeons breaks before the improved clinch at the fly- but the surgeons should be stronger right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteZahut Posted June 11, 2009 Author Share Posted June 11, 2009 Be it lazy or whatever, but, I don't usually tie tippet to the leader until I get the leader down to a size that is too small requiring me to tie on some tippet to extend the line. And yes, I use saliva when cinching the knot. I keep my tippet in my vest so it won't be UV damage. Thanks for the info guys. Perhaps I will start putting some tippet on, I am just lazy and don't really want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Maybe I'm not understanding your problem but if you're leader is breaking at the clinch knot on the fly then, as I see it, one of three things is happening. Either your leader is defective (worn or deteriorated) or the knot you are using is causing the leader to cut itself or the eye of the hook has a sharp edge that's cutting the leader (highly unlikely). If the problem is that your leader is defective, adding a tippet may only mean that you'll then break off at the joint between the tippet and the leader meaning you're going to lose everything from the tippet down. If this is the case, instead of adding a tippet and losing everything, replace the leader. If your leader is not defective, then the knot you're using is causing the leader to cut itself which is resolved by using a different knot. If you're using a clinch knot to tie on a big fly (big hook) with small diameter leader, it could be the clinch knot is slipping and not the leader breaking at all. Switch to an improved clinch to resolve this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiasson Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 I used to get very frustrated with my leader always breaking at the double surgeons knot where I tied the tippet on- rather than at the fly, often resulting in two lost flies. I think my problem was sometimes using florocarbon tippet on a regular mono leader or maybe my knots are just getting better as i doesn't happen as much anymore. But still happens once in a while that my surgeons breaks before the improved clinch at the fly- but the surgeons should be stronger right? I've had the same problem with fluro. The last few spools I've bought are Rio 3X and I find your clinch knots have to be perfect for it to not cut itself. Blood knots seem to work well when tying fluro to a mono leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteZahut Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 Thanks all for the advice. I am doubting that it is a defective leader as this seems to happen more often than it should and leads me to believe it is something I am doing. I will look into using a different knot and see if that helps at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefromsundre Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Over the years my buddies and I have found that Climax leader/leader has given us the less headaches with breakage. And we have found that whatever leader you use match the same brand of tippet. We do not know why. But if we use Sc. Angler leader with Climax tippet we have all kinds of breakage problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teck71 Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 I use that combination and have not had a lot of breakage issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawgstoppah Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 I'd be willing to bet it's more of a "fly too big" thing than anything else. I'd be willing to bet... that this isn't happening trying to tie a size 16 caddis on 5x... I bet your trying to tie a #4 san juan on 4x or something. Use a duncan loop... it will solve the "oversize fly for tippet" issue. If indeed that was the issue. I could be totally wrong here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteZahut Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 I'd be willing to bet it's more of a "fly too big" thing than anything else. I'd be willing to bet... that this isn't happening trying to tie a size 16 caddis on 5x... I bet your trying to tie a #4 san juan on 4x or something. Use a duncan loop... it will solve the "oversize fly for tippet" issue. If indeed that was the issue. I could be totally wrong here. The more I thought about it the more I believe it is a "fly too big". This often would happen when trying to tie on a big stone nymph on a 4x leader. I looked at the knot I was using and it was a Clinch Knot. Had a look at the duncan and will give that a try tomorrow when I am out. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverDoctor Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 The Duncon Loop is my favorite in a lot of situations. allows freedom of movement for nymphs and streamers. Don't use it on Dries though I like a tight knot on dries like the double turtle or Improved Clinch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 The more I thought about it the more I believe it is a "fly too big". This often would happen when trying to tie on a big stone nymph on a 4x leader. I looked at the knot I was using and it was a Clinch Knot. Had a look at the duncan and will give that a try tomorrow when I am out. Thanks again. With the water a little dirty I use straight 6 or 8lb maxima on my nymphs,if it fits in the eye then your good.Last time out i caught a fish on an 18 midge with 6lb Maxima.On a big stone nymph you could use 10lb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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