jksnijders Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Man im affraid to post pics now........................... Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orvisonly Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I'm apalled as well, Self-effacing Piscatorian. Why on earth would you only use one fly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birchy Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I think you must have spelled that incorrectly, orvisonly. I can't find 'piscatorian' in the dictionary.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwell Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 i agree with clive on this ... not the best tool too show people who too handle pike properly or most efficiently... personally idont eve like clieves idea about sticking your hands into teh gillplate..... u need a bugger cradle too help prevent the fish from bending too much.. possibly snaping its back or damaging organs.... even for trout i prefer a longer net over a small hole very deep net type (mine has a 22" opening) for this reason.. and we have all seen jays trout nets long and slender.... BUT!!!!!!! being a hardcore trout nut like humble i can see how it is easy too under estimate what you might get in them resivoirs and would figure a standard bow river net (were u put 24+" trout in) should be enough! lesson learned ive bin there forsure! not i pack a cradle larger net or intend too land them in knee deep water when fishign from shore and i think jay will do teh same! like he mentioned in another post.. mega cradle under construction for gators!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuttbow Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 This is getting crazy. Yes i have to agree after years of pike fishing a craddle is best for large gattors.A few years ago i switched to a bogo grip to handle the fish. I dont hoist them out of the water just hold their lower jaw.I find that 75% of the time this eliminates the need for jaw spreaders.(which to my opinion is a good thing). Was dealing with a 20+ gattor on sunday and some older gent comes up and says it was cruel i could wreck its jaw. Needless to say i didnt use it for the rest of the day. Going home i stopped to see how the guy was doing and he had 3 large pike on a stringer(still alive). This should be addressed in the fishing regs-Drowning fish is illegal. He asssured me he was just releasing them now. HUM large treble.Large smelt.he hooked into a 10 plus gattor when i was there so i helped him out.You couldnt even see the hook i told him to cut his line and let her go. After banging around on the rocks ,jaw spreaders and long pliers he got his beloved hook out. Only blood coming from both sides of the gills. He threw her back and she floated. I jumped in said WTF and spent some time reviving her.Point is well still be adressing handling issues for years to come.Ive caught and released some big dam gattors and i try to be gentle as possible.But how many havnt made it? If i catch a 25 inch trout and my net is designed for 16 inch trout i still use the net. For big gattors Clives finger to the gill plate works extremly well. Keep on with the great vids man. Your first gattor trip.Big fish welcome to the adiction club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humblefisherman Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 I am very thankful of the support i recieve from everyone on this board. It is the feedback i get from all of you that drives the direction of the series. Most of you watch enough of the video's to see that we do the best we can to ensure the health of the fish we catch and release. 99 percent of the feedback i get is positive. 1 percent is not. I pay as much attention to the 1 percent as i do to the 99. If i had a bunch of responses from people about the poor fish handling, i would remove it of course. The fact is, i didn't. And most likely won't. In the lake that we were fishing, most people kill the big Pike for eats. We release EVERY fish we catch. We were also using the largest rubber net i've found locally, it's not a small net by any means. Some would even argue that a cradle made of fine holed mesh removes more of the protective slime on a Pike, thus increasing it's chance of post release injury. Or the grip strength required to immobilize a Pike of that size could crush it's spine and leave it swimming around with years of chronic pain. How bout sticking your fingers in it's eye socket like the old guy at the gas station said to do. We could analyze it to death but that fact it is those fish were not injured other than a small hole in the lip. I like that Clive has a reverence for Pike. They are overlooked by most anglers and are super fun to catch. His point is valid, and i don't dispute that. It is his opinion, and opinions should be encouraged. My opinion is, the net was slightly to small for the fish we caught that day. That is the first time that large rubber net was ever too small for any fish i've caught. It worked, we didn't stuff it in, nor did we have bend the Pike beyond what it could handle. I could recount a story of my uncle, he was bit in the hand by a 20 pound pike. He lost a tonne o blood, and had to go to the hospital. So i will state, in contradiction to Clives opinion, you should avoid putting your hands anywhere near the mouth of a large pike. Their saliva has a natural anti-coagulant, they have a velcro like trap of sharp teeth, they are also very willing to bite if given the chance. This video being aired "Public" IS the issue. I hope that the viewers will make their point of view public as well. Thats the joy of it. Thats also where the education aspect works it's magic. I respect your opinion Clive, maybe you should make a video showing the "proper" way to land a big Pike. I for one would watch it, I'm sure i would even learn a thing or two. Would you really dangle your digits in front of that face full of teeth? Now that would be great entertainment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orvisonly Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I think you must have spelled that incorrectly, orvisonly. I can't find 'piscatorian' in the dictionary.. I feel like a Compleat fool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jksnijders Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Izaak Walton huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birchy Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I feel like a Compleat fool. Gotcha. Haven't read it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yak Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 i agree with clive on this ... not the best tool too show people who too handle pike properly or most efficiently... personally idont eve like clieves idea about sticking your hands into teh gillplate..... u need a bugger cradle too help prevent the fish from bending too much.. possibly snaping its back or damaging organs.... even for trout i prefer a longer net over a small hole very deep net type (mine has a 22" opening) for this reason.. and we have all seen jays trout nets long and slender.... BUT!!!!!!! being a hardcore trout nut like humble i can see how it is easy too under estimate what you might get in them resivoirs and would figure a standard bow river net (were u put 24+" trout in) should be enough! lesson learned ive bin there forsure! not i pack a cradle larger net or intend too land them in knee deep water when fishign from shore and i think jay will do teh same! like he mentioned in another post.. mega cradle under construction for gators!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! very good point max. clive is endorsing using the gill plate lift these fish out of the water without going on to mention this may not(is not) be appropriate for other species. that in itself could also be construed as irresponsible as a lesser angler without the 50 years of experience may think that the way to handle other species as well. while a valid point, perhaps it could have been better presented(good fish handling skills dont always equate into good people handling skills l) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawgstoppah Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 First off let me state I am by no means an expert with pike at all: I think we can all learn to handle fish better from others suggestions, wether it be a cradle or a huge frikkin net, or the gill plate thing, the great thing about message boards is that we can all learn from others. but there's one more thing I do know. I had a buddy get about 25 stitches once back when I was in my spinfishing for pike days, and it was from gilling a fish for a picture and it doing a huge flop around session. I don't exactly endorse it, not for the fishes safety sake, but for your own safety. At least maybe wear a good protective handling glove if your going to do it On a sidenote, while we are on the subject. I am going to make a cradle out of two hockey stick shafts, and a mesh for the fish, what mesh shold I use? What's the best for the fish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adc Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I don't exactly endorse it, not for the fishes safety sake, but for your own safety. At least maybe wear a good protective handling glove if your going to do it quote] An excellent point!!........I used to always wear a glove but I have become lax.....I have a couple of major cuts from gilling, which is how I handle all pike both big and small .......The big ones seldom bite you---the little ones ALWAYS seem to get a tooth in just before they get you wet..........On Monday I almost (almost) had to quit fishing and go for a tranfusion.......My waders looked like someone had butchered a lamb on them.......Anyway, safety first for you and the fish.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jksnijders Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Usually around this time of year my hands look like they've been through a table saw.. And after a bite you'll notice the unusually long time the cuts take to heal. Gill rakes are also capable of slicing you up quite handily. I use Polysporin or something on them, obviously pike water is often less than pristine. I rarely use jaw spreaders unless I have to, though. As for a cradle, this one has rubberized mesh, and a measurement on the handle. I find it works well even when I'm solo. The handles float, steer the gals in, done. The handles measure to 47", (Lorne's lady was 39 " I think..) come close to maxing it out only once though, the pic I posted here somewhere.. Can be found in stores easily, roll it up, and never leaves my back seat til mid summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jksnijders Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Whoops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I've fished pike for a really long time, though mostly through the ice. For large pike (anything over say 8 pounds), Clive's method is the only way to fly. The key is to not get your fingers in there too far - hit the rakers and you'll bleed like a stuck pig. There's a perfect sweet spot right at the front of the jaw there that works like a charm. Be careful with gloves, as they can get caught up in there really easily and you'll have a hell of a time getting them out. I usually grab snot rockets or hammerhandles by the back of the head near where the gill plate stops. You can apply decent pressure there and they can't do much to get away. The inside gill plate area on those little bastards is just full of sharp stuff. You combine that with the fact that they like to thrash so much and you've got a recipe for slice and dice if your fingers get in there. Most of the pike you'll catch on flies are easily handled this way. Best tool for pike fishing is a pair of needlenose at least 12" long. A cradle like that is perfect for pike and big bullies too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryfly Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Okay...we've gone around and come back. Yes, Jay has the main message correct, "This video being aired "Public" IS the issue." Sorry for being heavy-handed, but this ... well ... anyway. We all screw up now and then. As TimD used to say on the FFA board, "Fishing is a blood sport." (And I don't mean our blood like jksnijders has shown. Man THAT happens a lot. BTW, jksnijders, we like the regular hand sanitizer for cleaning the pike tooth wounds....seems to work well.) Anyway, as TimD said, some of our game will get hurt and die..that is a fact. Our role is to minimize that as much as possible. Okay ... this is a bit of a hijack and if you wish, these can be posted in a new thread. Please advise. Here are a series of images that are in my power Point show on pike...pretty basic stuff ... added a few comments too. Cradles are great, but impossible in a PT when alone--unless you have three arms. They are well suited to a couple of guys in a boat. Clive Jaw spreaders unfortunately are sometimes required to hold jaws open if hooks are deep. This is the ideal situation...the pike is lip hooked and the hook removed with long forceps or needle-nose pliers...and the fish never leaves the water. This method works okay on smaller pike but not so with large pike...they simply weight too much. However, the neck grab can steady a large pike for lip-hook removal. It is also more applicable when wading vs. in a boat, tube or PT. The pictures below show the finger-under-the-jaw method. It is something which simply has to be practiced. Slide the index or middle finger into the gill slit and up toward the front of the jaw...not sure how to describe it. Try this on a small pike that is under control. Investigate the territory to see what parts are where. Obviously, you need to steer clear of the gills. As noted, the rakers are sharp as hell and cause hand wounds. Depending on fish size, you might get two or even three fingers under the jaw. The primary objective is to get a solid grip without getting near the gills. Jeff has all four fingers inside this monster pike's gill plate. Held like this (still mainly in the water) reduces gravity stress and makes for easy hook removal. For some reason pike usually (usually) hold still when held like this. It is not a good idea to hold large pike vertically for pictures. Apparently it is not good on their innards so hold them more horizontally for pictures. (And, yes, I've held 'em vertically for pix.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humblefisherman Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 Very informative Clive, thanks for sharing your wisdom. I will give it a try soon,and the next time you see me publicly holding a Pike i'll most likely be using this method. Quite a thread. Many points of view, and packed full of opinions and knowledge from a full range of experiences on the water. Thats what these forums are all about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayr Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Man im affraid to post pics now........................... Dude, you should be!! The pics that I posted for May of the pike and lakers have been terminated!! I have inquired as to why, and I can't even guess as to what the answer might be, hoping it's just a glitch......as all of the fish are being held with Clive's prescribed, accepted, and well illustrated method Ayr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Dude, you should be!! The pics that I posted for May of the pike and lakers have been terminated!! I have inquired as to why, and I can't even guess as to what the answer might be, hoping it's just a glitch......as all of the fish are being held with Clive's prescribed, accepted, and well illustrated method Ayr. some snivelin' little peckerwood gone power mad Ayr, fuggin bullshit rule, takes away from this board and pisses off more than just few people, maybe I'll do hafta go to facebook to keep in contact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jksnijders Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Dude, you should be!! The pics that I posted for May of the pike and lakers have been terminated!! I have inquired as to why, and I can't even guess as to what the answer might be, hoping it's just a glitch......as all of the fish are being held with Clive's prescribed, accepted, and well illustrated method Ayr. some snivelin' little peckerwood gone power mad Ayr, fuggin bullshit rule, takes away from this board and pisses off more than just few people, maybe I'll hafta go to facebook to keep in contact Weak. Nice pics, they were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weedy1 Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 It looks to me that there is a double standard being applied to this photo post situation. My guess is Ayr's May pics are toast because he didn't follow the "no fingers under gill plates or lifting fish by the gills" rule, yet this particular thread has several pictures of just that and instructions on how to hold a fish that are contrary to the rule being applied. WTF? Maybe ALL photos should be banned just in case they offend someone in a particular way. Then we could get on with the business of censoring the text within the posts. And since we're on the topic of "Unnessary" Censorship....................... Click here if the movie does not play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Tell you what Weedy, this deal pisses me off just a tad. If "whoever" (the peckerwood with the fast finger) keeps arbitrarily deleting posts and photos from knowledgeable fishers, I'm gonna fuggin make a point of never darkenin' the door or using any online services of any of the site sponsors whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryfly Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I missed the "ayr" affair so know nothing about what happened. "yet this particular thread has several pictures of just that and instructions on how to hold a fish that are contrary to the rule being applied." Diff species are diff structures AND generally pike are much larger than most trout..generally. You can indeed hold pike as show and not be in contact with the actual gills. My original "complaint" here was about a public airing of fish handling. Fine. (Or not, depending on you views. ) There are instances when I mistreat pike simply by fishing for them. Now we are back to TimD's comments, "Fishing is a a blood sport." What he meant was that fish get injured on occasion. It is something with which one has to be comfortable. The Germans (and some Brits) are not happy about C&R fishing because they consider it to be cruel. So you fish and whack everything until you reach your (what?) 2-fish limit. Done. Without concern for fish populations and stringent regs (including size and daily limits) we'd have no fisheries at all in Alberta. So some may complain about C&R fishing, but without some control our waters simply cannot support large kills. We fish with controls, or we ban fishing or radically change sregs and impose rules like the Germans. Catch one or two fish and go home. Sheesh. Some pike (and let's face it, streamer-hooked trout) get hooked deeply. Small pike tend (tend) to hit streamers from behind (thus a slack line strike...a negative strike) and on occasion take the large hooks very deeply...sometimes well down in between the gills and they will sometimes bleed. (A streamer-caught trout will do the same thing, right?) Point being is that this type of hooking does more damage than holding pike as shown when the gills are not touched. So we C&R fish (handling fish as best as we can) and accept damage or we quit fishing. Please let us be mindful of what gets shown on the public airways. Showing off pictures of fish here is totally acceptable within reason. Showing a trout (say) with blood running down and telling us it was released. Well ... best not to post a picture. Stay warm. Clive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesr1 Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I am a member of a Saltwater fishing website in Texas. They have recently disallowed any replies, except for the author, of any fishing report thread to stop all the bitching about pictures, or methodologies, or catch and release, or whatever. And while it had the desired effect of stopping the bitching, it makes the site a bit useless. This site is on the way to that. I'm with Taco on this. The complaining about every non-pristine fish pic is getting on my nerves, as is the deletion policy. We continue and continue to pander to the most sensitive with the outcome being people are afraid to post pictures. Too bad, it makes the site less than what it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Dude, you should be!! The pics that I posted for May of the pike and lakers have been terminated!! I have inquired as to why, and I can't even guess as to what the answer might be, hoping it's just a glitch......as all of the fish are being held with Clive's prescribed, accepted, and well illustrated method Ayr. Your pics are still there and great pics they are. I think they where just moved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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