Missed Takes

[ÜberFly]

Craig,

 

I'm curious to see what would happen if you (we) were to (would) try and fish your SJW at the bottom.. Just curious...

 

P

 

 

Hi All,

 

I have been reading this thread with lots of interest and have been mulling a few things over before jumping into the fray. I always fish a triple rig (heavy, light, lighter flies), and generally fish slower water (too lazy to do all that re-casting). So based on what has been said so far I should expect to only occassionally catch a fish on the last two flies and most of my hookups should be on the heavy first fly aka "the worm".

 

However, from personal experience this has not been the case.

 

Here are the results from yesterday, one fish caught on the lead fly, one on the 2nd fly, and two on the 3rd fly (with another brute lost that bent the 18 brassie 90 degrees).

 

In fact my experience this winter has been totally the opposite of the theory that is being bantered about. I have caught very few fish on the top fly (although I love it when the fish are keyed into the worm as hookup to landing ratios so up dramatically), and the majority of fish caught on the middle and bottom flies.

 

I am not too sure exactly what is going on with the flies as they drift through the slow water but my experience has been that fish will take all three flies and your indie will move enough to allow you to set the hook and catch fish even on the bottom two flies.

 

[birchy]

I always used to fish my heaviest fly at the bottom because it was easier for me to cast.. but then I started reading that everyone else does it the other way and I switched.

 

I always used to catch fish on the Bow.. and now I don't... hmmm..

[PeasantoftheVise]

Craig,

 

I'm curious to see what would happen if you (we) were to (would) try and fish your SJW at the bottom.. Just curious...

 

P

 

 

Peter,

 

Last year VP Jr. tied many of his rigs with the worm in the middle location. He has not done this as much this year but maybe that would give you the best of both worlds.

[maxwell]

I have been wondering lately if your indy also could have an effect on detecting strikes. What I mean by this is: I use a "thing-a-ma-bobber" (the air filled plastic indy. This things could hold up a small child. Although I feel like I catch my fair share of fish I wonder if I also miss alot of strikes because the indy is so buoyant? All the little strikes might not be detected. What do you guys think...should I use a less buoyant indy?

 

mike

 

 

good point i try too carry a few different sized of indicators and adjust my wieght and size of indi accordingly.. that is why i like swivels and shot..... i want my flies too move more freely with a heavier weighted leader so taht if the flies do get a knock the indi will go down or pause more aggresive with the added weight on my leader.. rather than take a ton of forse too lose equalibriam too go under..... look at some of the centre pin steelie guys with the big dink floats........ its all a balancing act with the weight of your rig, leader indicator shot etc so that you flies are always on bottom but not too heavy too hang up like madd but u also want your indi weighted enough too float but not soo much weight it gets dragged under from your shot before it gets stopped momentarially by a fish..... u can adjust and tweak it so ti is way more sensative but it takes time.. i wish i had a formula... i sort of do but it all has too do with the water i see infront of me and the flies i intend too fish.. then i make teh decision between with size of indi how many shots how big a swivel after i know the nymph rig i intend too fish.. hope that helps dude!

[fish432]

One thing I've found with the three fly rig is if the fish takes the top or middle fly you sometimes floss them with the lower fly. So you may think it ate the midge on the bottom but you just snagged it when you missed it on the worm up top.

[headscan]

This happened to me when I didn't have enough space between flies. Once I started using about 12" minimum between flies it happened a lot less frequently.

[PeasantoftheVise]

One thing I've found with the three fly rig is if the fish takes the top or middle fly you sometimes floss them with the lower fly. So you may think it ate the midge on the bottom but you just snagged it when you missed it on the worm up top.

 

 

I can certainly buy into that happening some of the time.

 

My concern with accepting it outright as why I catch fish on the lower two flies is that generally in the winter I am fishing the top fly as weight to get my rig down--this means I either have a worm or a stone on the top. The flies that I change are the middle two flies and sometime I am just changing the color/type of midge on the end until I find what the fish are keying in on--in other words what causes the indie to go down more often.

[SilverDoctor]

I'm a swivel guy also. like not only the weight but the swivel does cut down on tangles. I carry a few size swivels. I also carry a number of different indicators. "thing-a-ma-bobber" are great but I also use yarn ones if I fish shallower with emergers in summer. I also have an indicator that I make out of a piece of floating fly line about 10" long that is great for under the film or rising nymph work.

 

The short of it is that I use a number of different set ups and love to experiment. I've fished most of my life without indicators just tight line nymphing and it's great for small streams. I think where indicators shine is larger rivers like the bow where you need to control depth out a ways.

[Conor]

Keep in mind that fish don't really grab your fly, they suck it into their mouths. If you add more tension to the system, a lot fewer fish will be able to get the fly in their mouths. Also, the more tension, the more drag in the system. Again, less hits. So fewer actual hits, or fewer visual hits- your choice.

 

I have seen many fish take a nymph and spit it out in one smooth, fast motion. Much less than a second. Also, the takes sometimes don't register on a tiny yarn indi about 1ft above. Not much you can do about that if you can't see the fish.

 

 

[reevesr1]

I have seen many fish take a nymph and spit it out in one smooth, fast motion. Much less than a second. Also, the takes sometimes don't register on a tiny yarn indi about 1ft above. Not much you can do about that if you can't see the fish.

 

I read the two second thing in a book once, ie, 2 seconds from intake to spit. I would imagine that has to be species specific, or maybe an average. If the spit is less than a second, like you said there is no chance to hook that fish nymphing with an indicator, or anyway else for that matter. It would be extremely difficult to react fast enough to hook the fish even if you saw the take. I actually find your observation depressing. 2 seconds is bad enough!

 

This has been a great topic. In the nymph book I read, it said that if you think of all the things that have to go right to hook a fish while nymphing it's amazing we catch any at all. As such, the author also said that you have to treat hooking the fish a success. Anything after that is a bonus.

 

I know this sort of fishing does not have the visceral appeal of dry fly fishing (no way to top the sight of a fish sucking down a dry) but is at least as difficult to master and lends itself to experimentation more than any other fishing method I have ever used.

 

[Conor]

My example is one extreme. My point was not to worry about not hooking every fish that eats your nymph; it is impossible.

 

I imagine the best way to keep a hook in a fish's mouth long enough to react is to keep your hooks sticky-sharp. Or lots of fuzzy stuff to get caught on the teeth. I've heard people swear that cdc loops increase their hooking ratio (with drys, but for the same reason).

[troutlover]

I used to fish with a long leader in 4 ft water 7,8,9 feet because that was how i was taught. However i had the opportunity to fish with a more experienced fisherman and i happened to notice as we fished the same water his indi was set to a much shorter leader than mine. He said that he found you saw far more takes when you were just ticking the bottom or even just above than dragging. So i made the switch and i found that i hooked up far more than the other method however i did find it took alot more attention and work #1 the indicator has to be adjusted alot more often to maintain this "ticking depth" as variations of one to two feet can throw it off #2 you need to watch your indi like a hawk and set on what are usually very small movements and very fast dips of the indi #3 you need to be quick. I'm not saying any method is wrong or right because each has been proven i'm just sharing whats worked well for me. (that said i don't ever catch fish anyways.)

[chiasson]

I used to fish with a long leader in 4 ft water 7,8,9 feet because that was how i was taught. However i had the opportunity to fish with a more experienced fisherman and i happened to notice as we fished the same water his indi was set to a much shorter leader than mine. He said that he found you saw far more takes when you were just ticking the bottom or even just above than dragging. So i made the switch and i found that i hooked up far more than the other method however i did find it took alot more attention and work #1 the indicator has to be adjusted alot more often to maintain this "ticking depth" as variations of one to two feet can throw it off #2 you need to watch your indi like a hawk and set on what are usually very small movements and very fast dips of the indi #3 you need to be quick. I'm not saying any method is wrong or right because each has been proven i'm just sharing whats worked well for me. (that said i don't ever catch fish anyways.)

 

So your still fishing with a 9' leader? I think I've had the same problem. I think it's all going to click for me this season .