lethfisher Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 After fishing with a spey on the Bow I have a couple questions that I was confused about while on the river. The main one is how do you fish in fairly close say 15-30 feet? Whenever I cast in close like that the line didn't really want to go out, it seemed like as soon as you got to that distance where the shooting head ended I could cast fine. Inside this distance it just seemed really akward. I tried casting up stream a ways and letting it drift down infront of me but then I had to strip in lots of line to keep tension in case of a strike. Once it was all stripped in it was a big pain in the @ss casting out to a distance to do the drift over again. Which is kinda my next question as well, how do you get the first 10 feet of line outside the rod tip when setting up on the stream, I usually ended up roll casting or even single hand casting to get it out before the spey cast seemed to work well, is this right? Although I didn't mind the stripping in every time back to the top of the shooting head I was wondering if I was using the scandi (I think) lines as apposed to the skagit shooting head would I have to strip it in every time?? I definitely thought the spey rod was the right tool for the job on the bigger rivers, it just seemed odd to me that I couldn't fish in close if I wanted to. There has to be a way though lol I must be missing something. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeler Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 The rod isn't going to load for a normal cast when you've only got a short amount of line out (also depends on what rod you were using; this will be more of a problem with heavier rods), but you still have a couple choices. If you're nymphing and within a rod length or two you can use the water tension of the line when it's dangling downstream of you to flip your nymphs upstream and high stick or czech nymph (check google or ask Max for a lesson) through the drift (this can also be done with streamers). Another technique with streamers is to fish upstream of your target while swinging into the lie you want to fish, and slowly take steps downstream to cover the entire area. Both the scandi and skagit lines are shooting heads, just designed for two different styles of fishing, so you will have to strip both in in order to recast them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headscan Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Yup, cheeler nailed it. You need the full head of the shooting head outside of the rod tip to load the rod properly for your cast. If you don't want to shoot line and strip it back in, you should look at a mid-spey line or Windcutter or something similar. Just keep in mind that those lines are going to have a longer head than a skagit or scandi - possibly by as much as 20 feet. You have a couple options for fishing the water that is in closer - either move upstream and swing down through the spot where you want to fish or use a single-hander. Most of the year I carry both a single and double hand rod with me on the Bow so I can cover almost every situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordon Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 i'm no pro or old hand at the spey thingy but you should be able to 'flick' line no matter how much head you have out....it's not gonna be a spey cast but more just a snake roll kinda thing or a flick of the rod tip out in front of you it's one handed with the reel and butt more tucked under your top arm....i fish my skagit like this all the time with the head loop anywhere from a cpl wraps on the reel to any one of the guides(the outer guides and on the spey motions come back into play)....the other day i drifted my nymphs through with the indie under my rod tip and wham-o...18" bow,my rod is 12'6 tip to tip so it was no more than 11' feet out....just mess around with it,you'll make it work if there's fish involved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwell Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 i jsut toss mini roll casts or snake rolls .. usually single handed with my double handed if i am fishing close range.. if i know i am fishing a run and wont need long range casts i jsut use my sinlge hander ........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhurt Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I also alow my line to dang downstream then just pick the line up and snap it forward to were I want to go. I think using a mid belly would be wrong cause like a scandi or skagit it is designed to cast the whole line, and would be much more underline if trying to cast roughly only a quarter of the head (52 foot mid-belly) apposed to using a scandi line where you are casting roughly half the head. I have been playing around with the Northwest Skagit heads and I like them for fishing within that 15 to 50 foot range. I can pretty much use my two hander in any type of situation but prefeer to use my single hander only when tossing small dries, night fishing when I can't see my achor, small streams such as the crow and livingston, and off the boat. What I would suggest is when Brain Nyskia comes to town for the Loop school to difently take that and if you wish to learn about long lines wait till speyghillie comes. Both these guys have been teaching for a long time and diffently know how to identifiy flaws in casts and correct them. Also there are a couple of guys here in town that could help you out such as Toolman, Max, Cdone, PPK, etc.... Each of these guys have a diffrent perspective on the two hander and could diffently show any new person a trick or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogilvie Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Unfortunately,if all you have cast and fished with is a Skagit type set-up then you are really missing a much larger segment of Spey Casting and Spey Fishing... when fishing in close the Flick is a good bet..What did we do before the Skagit was popularized in the market??we fished of course with mid to long belly lines,like the old double tapers. My point being that do broaden your experiences... My favorite line for in close situations is actually an agressive mid-belly line like the Hardy Mach 2 Salmon or the Snowbee 2D , both available with integrated intermediate tip and both a blast to roll cast,underhand Scandi cast , traditional cast or any of the modern casts. Another good line for in close is the CND GPS line.. These lines can be more stealth as well...in Ontario there is a trend to cast Scandi heads and Mid Belly lines...I mentioned Ontario because there you can Nymph Fish with multiple flies as well... An advantage of a longer bellied line is the pick-up can be done with less or more line.Manage your stroke with less demand. We are again this year going to be doing a spey clinic in Calgary ,in March late. Location yet to be announced but it will be a good One. C After fishing with a spey on the Bow I have a couple questions that I was confused about while on the river. The main one is how do you fish in fairly close say 15-30 feet? Whenever I cast in close like that the line didn't really want to go out, it seemed like as soon as you got to that distance where the shooting head ended I could cast fine. Inside this distance it just seemed really akward. I tried casting up stream a ways and letting it drift down infront of me but then I had to strip in lots of line to keep tension in case of a strike. Once it was all stripped in it was a big pain in the @ss casting out to a distance to do the drift over again. Which is kinda my next question as well, how do you get the first 10 feet of line outside the rod tip when setting up on the stream, I usually ended up roll casting or even single hand casting to get it out before the spey cast seemed to work well, is this right? Although I didn't mind the stripping in every time back to the top of the shooting head I was wondering if I was using the scandi (I think) lines as apposed to the skagit shooting head would I have to strip it in every time?? I definitely thought the spey rod was the right tool for the job on the bigger rivers, it just seemed odd to me that I couldn't fish in close if I wanted to. There has to be a way though lol I must be missing something. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toolman Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I like to use Scandi heads in the 30'-32' range, for nymphing (long line, czech, polish, spanish, high stick etc.), and also with floating, intermeditate sink tips, smaller streamers, drys etc. Fishing up close under the rod tip or out to 80' is not a problem... I've used Mid belly lines with nymphing rigs, but found them a bit cumbersome when working with my back tight to the bank, along tough shorelines and a little weak on the turn over with heavier rigs/indies. They are a bit unstable on windy days, but Mid belly's can sure put it way out there when you need to and mend well at extreme distances. I still really enjoy casting/fishing Mid/long belly lines (Delta spey, CND gps, SA XLT's), in the low clear water of late summer/fall, using small/med. size flies, floating or intermediate tips and delicate presentations. Fine and far off....Very sweet! Skagit heads can work for nymphing, but it is difficult to make upstream mends, stack mends etc., as these heavy, short heads tend to float low and grip the water, so a larger diameter running line will help you mend/control the drift when making upstream, dead drifted presentations... I sometimes use Compact Skagit heads for indie nymphing when the winds get extreme, but in a lighter grain weight than I would use for casting heavy sink tips. I add a short cheater (2.5' - 5'), to help the leader turn over smoothly, preventing hinging and/or over powering the leader system. As for close up fishing with any rod, single or two handed, rod tip action is an important factor. Softer rod tips load easier with less line out of the tip and faster, stiffer rods need a bit more line out of the tip to load. I've settled on a med-fast action, two handed rod, with a Scandinavian head, as the best all round set up for my Bow fishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogilvie Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 A good choice Toolman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowcane Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 You may want to up line one size as well and do those 'flicky' casts that Courtney suggested. I've found that I actually make shorter casts here on the Bow than I did back in Ontario, even though the Bow is quite wider/larger than any Ontario trout stream with the exception of one! (You likely know the spot Courtney) Myself, I'm usually using the much looked down upon wind-cutter in 6/7/8 for my 6 wt rod, it'll cast as short as 25' but still hit out 75-80' easily. I'll carry an Elixir 380 when I feel the need to hit the far bank. In both cases about 1-3' have been cut back to turn over heavy tips better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverDoctor Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I'm usually using the much looked down upon wind-cutter in 6/7/8 for my 6 wt rod, it'll cast as short as 25' but still hit out 75-80' easily. Still use Wincutters a lot myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lethfisher Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 I am starting to look more at the 6wt 9' to 9'6" range and line it up with a loop stream line or 40+. When looking at buying single handed rods for mainly spey casting is it better to look for a fast action rod or a slower rod that bends further down more like a two handed spey rod. I have read a couple reviews on 6wts that are pretty stiff with fast action, all these reviews say the rods start to shine around 50+ feet when the rod is actually getting bent a bit. This seems like you wouldn't want this for a spey casting rig... Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headscan Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I use a fast action rod with a quick recovery for single hand spey casting, but that's my personal preference. Maybe the next time there's a "spey" gathering some people could bring their favourite single hand spey setups (since spey casting is a style, not a type of rod like some people think). Kind of tough to test a setup for spey casting unless you're on the water, unlike overhead casting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lethfisher Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 I found this article on spey in general but I don't know how much it applies to single handed spey casting. "A medium action rod will suite most average casters the best. The caster can still feel the rod load with a medium action, while faster line speeds can be obtained. The Sage Z-Axis series, the Winston BIIx series, and the Burkhiemer Classics are all good examples of medium action Spey rods. Medium action rods will handle a wide range of casting strokes and line types. Fast action rods are for the angler that demands high line speed from their weapon. Good examples of fast action Spey rods would be the Echo2 series and the Sage TCR series. These rods really shine with shooting taper style lines. While most folks will struggle with a fast rod, expert casters can command the water with one. That isn’t to say that all experts use fast rods. More times than not, most advanced casters still lean towards a medium to medium fast sticks." Taken from https://steelheadbum.com/store/pc/viewContent.asp?idpage=5 Seems a medium or fast rods are your best bet according to this... I am sure if you are a good caster you should be able to handle any speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headscan Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 The best thing to do is try a few different rods and see which one suits you best. Try some spey casting with the single hand rod you have. You might find you already have a rod that works well for what you want to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lethfisher Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 Hi Marc, I am definitely going to try out my 5wt I have right now. Luukesh has a opti stream line #5 coming in the mail next week and he said he would let me give it a try so I am pretty excited about that. Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lethfisher Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 I probably should have went to the spey thing at the South Bow shop with Islandguy today to ask this question but I couldn't make it. I have read in a couple places on the forum including the event this weekend that you should bring your rod down and we'll "tune it up" or something along those lines. What does that exactly mean when you say tune up the rod? Also to Toolman is there going to be another sunday spey gathering soon or ever? Thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toolman Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I have read in a couple places on the forum including the event this weekend that you should bring your rod down and we'll "tune it up" or something along those lines. What does that exactly mean when you say tune up the rod? Also to Toolman is there going to be another sunday spey gathering soon or ever? Thanks guys As for tuning a rod, it is in reference to setting up a proper line system that matches your rod and casting style. I will be hosting another Spey gathering very soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speyghillie Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 What's with all this Speycasting thing.........i just don't get it, it sounds like fun but not sure if its for me, i have caught so many fish on the Bow with my single-hander.......at least 0 fish, i dont think they are Stocking that river properly. Hope to see some of you guys next month, Lethfisher get out with Toolman and the guys and do it SCOTTISH STYLIE. Gordo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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