duanec Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 ok you spey peeps...i've been watching from a distance for a while now, and want to hear your opinion. so...i'm shopping around for an 8 wt, primarily for wet coast fun i get to do very seldomly right now...but possibly more often in the future. and a few members on the board have suggested i should consider a spey rod. ok, maybe... but i've had limited exposure, none of my current circle have the long rods [i'd be the laffingstock/guineapig] [wouldn't be the first time], and i'm primarily needing this new rod for a trip in october, where the water is not going to be any larger than the bow and probably even smaller. basically, i'm not convinced that it's a good idea to commit to a long rod when i may not need the long bombs on my oct. trip. but i can sure see the advantages when you've got limited backcasting room. and yes i know you can learn to throw a spey cast with the singlehander. so then i started reading up a bit and i find switch rods...which in an 8wt would land somewhere around 10-11' correct? and i'm considering that as an option: if i understand it correctly they can be used for both overhand & spey casting styles...of course they are probably not ideal for both styles but maybe if i had one i could ease into speyness where and when i can, and/but i've also got a usable 8 wt. for all those larger requirement situations i get into maybe 1-2 times/season... right? wrong? thoughts? comments? suggestions? Quote
headscan Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Check out this thread on switch rods if you haven't already: http://flyfishcalgary.com/board/index.php?showtopic=6197 For a river the size of the Bow you can easily get into situations where you might need an actual two-hander rather than a switch. Also, despite what some people might have you think, spey casting is more about efficiency than distance. What size flies do you expect to be chucking and how deep do you need to get them? If you give Brian at Whistler a call and give him some info on where you're going to fish with it he can probably point you in the right direction as far as rod length, line weight, and so on. Quote
markd Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 spey casting is more about efficiency than distance. What size flies do you expect to be chucking and how deep do you need to get them? Exactly, sure you can blast out 100 foot casts with a single hand rod, but the spey is able to do it all day long without stressing your body, and gives you the ideal way to mend line (you may only be able to mend 30 feet with a single hand rod, while with a spey it could be 60). I fish a double hand rod not for it's casting ability, but for it's fishability. I find steelhead fishing all about your mending, if your fly isn't where it should be and the fish aren't in a happy mood, you're not going to catch anything without getting your fly super slow...There are lots of rivers on the west coast that a single hand rod could cast across in certain places, yet everyone is using spey rods... Switch rods are more for surf casting, and are used far more for overhead casting, then spey style. Plus, you don't need to cast 100 feet with a spey to catch fish.. You're friends might laugh, until you're catching all the fish..Personally, i'd look at getting a nice little used setup, and get out and practice..you'll be a wizard by the time october comes around Quote
headscan Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Personally, i'd look at getting a nice little used setup, and get out and practice. Noticed this in the trading post: http://flyfishcalgary.com/board/index.php?showtopic=6918 I have no knowledge or experience with that rod though. Quote
toolman Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Dune, we will probably be getting a Spey gathering together on the weekend, if the weather forecast holds...most likely on Sunday afternoon. Try and come down to cast a few rods, get a few answers to your questions etc. Then you will have a better understanding of what Spey rods/lines/fishing is all about. These Spey gatherings are free of charge, everyone is welcome and are a lot of fun... I'll post the details in the next day or two... Quote
maxwell Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 its like a mini spey rod in teh 10-11 1/2 foot range typically.. they usually have shorter bottom handles or fighitng buts. they can be used for single hand casting (spey or overhand) aswell as double handed casting (spey or overhand) i really dig them for troutspey.. but more often than not when i want too fish double handed i use my 12foot 6wt or 11 1/2 7wt spey's ... i think some companies were intending them too be like some mentioned a "in between rod" they are great for a one rod does all kinda deal or for someone looking at getting into spey IMHO. but from what i have found is when fishing single handed 10-11 ish feet of graphite can become tire some and when fishing double handed i would rather a spey i mentioned above. but they are fun too mess around with if u dig that sort of thing! i use mine for a shortrange (20-50feet) indicator fishing typically with teh intent of skating dries or smaller streamers (1-3inchers) in the evening kinda day... some people really dig them for highsticking too but i find having a shorter rod (9ish footer) gives me greater control when fishing a highstick/shortline nymph method.. i know loop is coming out with a new model of the switch this year, beulah , snowbee, tfo echo, and a few other companies sell them aswell from waht i recall... for what you are looking for tho i would almost recommend getting into spey rods rather than switch rods imho best too get down too one of the speygatherings swing a few sticks and see what you feel you like most. i double overhand with all of my speys and switches if u were thinking about doing any "surf casting too. Quote
duanec Posted January 15, 2009 Author Posted January 15, 2009 tnx dat's helpful. look fwd to the chance to try the big sticks agin. Quote
Frenchcreek Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Dune, I'll be at the gathering on Sunday and I'll have sveral "trout Speys' 12'2" fast(er) action for 5/6/7 lines and 13" traditional action/soft(er) for lines 6/7 and a 9'8" switch rod for lines 6/7/8 if you want to check them out. Quote
duanec Posted January 16, 2009 Author Posted January 16, 2009 tnx, cool! 90% sure i'll be there, just gotta check the kids sports schedules. Quote
ogilvie Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 It's great to see this topic high on the minds of fly fishers. The book on Switch type rods is a long and complex one for sure...but ...and I say but...they are great little sticks that in the right hands are extremely efficient. We will have about a dozen different weights at this years show ...and the lines to match. For the fly fisher that bush wacks,travels a lot and covers a lot of different ground and fish...switch rods are a definite bonus. I recently got back from Southern Mexico where we were Bone fishing and targeting baby tarpon...after looking back on the events we encountered during that day having a good Switch rod would have been a definite asset. And placing tight loops inside the Mangrove alleys would have been a hoot with a small switch rod....we did get fish and had a great time but like many fly fishers we are always looking at the what if's! C Quote
lethfisher Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 I have found a pretty sweet deal on an 11'2" 7wt switch rod and I am really thinking of getting it. I tried Max's out at the Sunday Spey thing and thought it was great. I like how it is a little more compact than the spey rods but you can still get the distance and fishability with it. I am mainly looking at it for use on the Bow or in lakes with streamers. I currently own an 8'6" 5wt and a 9' 8wt. The 8wt isn't the greatest rod and I find it to be pretty heavy after an hour of use with any size of fly. I really like my 5wt for rivers like the Crow but am not to sure about it on a bigger river like the Bow. I would like a rod that I can use in multiple situations rather than just a single circumstance, which is why the Switch seems like a perfect rod for me. I have cast a bunch of spey rods at the sunday spey and at the FF expo and they seem fun but just seem to big lol But I really like the casting style the spey offers. And if you guys are casting 110 ft how the frick can you see your indicator from that far away??? lol Also a question about reel sizes and spey line sizes, I have a reel for my 8wt and I looked it up and the specs on it say: Backing Capacity 7wt 160 yards 20 pound 8wt 140 yards 20 pound 9wt 120 yards 20 pound Does this mean if the entire reel was full of backing?... And would that be a large enough spool to hold a normal spey line? Thanks guys!! I am glad the forum is here so I can ask random questions Quote
headscan Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 Since you liked Max's setup find out which line he had on it and try to get the same one. Getting the right rod/line combo that you like is most important. From there you can figure out the reel and backing. Quote
lethfisher Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 Yeah thats what it seems like is a big deal about spey casting is getting the proper line for to match your rod. I am in a little bit of a pickle here now and need some opinions. The rod I found is a Loop Blueline Switch rod and the guy is selling it for about $250 (still has plastic on cork, never been cast). Now I realize that this model is discontinued so if it breaks or something goes wrong I am pretty much screwed... But this rod is worth way more than $250 that's for sure. So I am thinking would it be worth it to spend an extra $100 and get a TFO switch rod that comes with a lifetime warranty on it in case I break a section or get this probably better rod, the Blueline without warranty on it. I am just getting into the spey casting style and I think if I get the switch I would probably be using it for spey casting 90% of the time, do you think it would be more reasonable just to get a 12'6" actual spey rod?? But I also have an 8wt with a fighting butt on it that is 9' long. What would happen if I put a spey line on that?? Is there actually a big difference between the rods construction in a 9' 8wt single-hander and a 11'2" 7wt switch rod other than the length?? Or should I just stop being a baby about it and learn to spey cast with both my single handes (5wt and 8wt) instead and spend my money on a new set of polarized sunglasses lol Thanks!! :) Quote
headscan Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 First thing I would do is contact Brian Niska at Whistler Flyfishing about the warranty options on that rod since they're the Loop service center for Canada. You have a few options. One is to learn how to spey cast your single-handed rods and see how you like it first. If that does everything you want, then you're golden. Second is to go with a switch rod like the Loop Blue you're looking at or one of the other brands of switch rods like TFO, Beulah, Echo, etc. Third is to go with one of the smaller two-handed rods like the Beulah 11'6", Echo 11'9", etc. Where you plan on fishing it is going to be the biggest factor in the way you go. If you call Brian, tell him what you'd like to do with the rod, your skill level and all that and he can give you some good recommendations. I've purchased five rods and matching lines from him (three single handers and two double handers) and every setup has been bang on. Quote
lethfisher Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 Awesome, thanks a lot I have cast a few spey rods and that one switch rod and I like how it feels a lot That is the answer I was looking for haha Quote
markd Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 don't think that the fly shops in Calgary can't help you out either (support local shops, and forum sponsors!)....there are quite a few seriously experienced spey casters in Country Pleasures, Troutfitters and Fish Tales....ohh, and dont forget that loop aren't the end all for spey/switch rods..... Quote
agbff Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 No expert on the topic, heres what i think. As for the loop or TFO.. i would go with the tfo just because of the warranty issue as you stated. An 11'2 7 wt would be an awesome stick for the bow... not to big and not to small. For me, the transition to 11'6 from a 9'0 was a big one and even now casting a rod that is a foot longer than im used to is a big change. The 11'2 may be a bit more forgiving. The airflo 40+ is a line ive heard is good for signle hand spey casting, havent tried it though. Quote
speyghillie Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 LOOP LOOP. has anybody mentioned LOOP. Gordo. Quote
FlashGordon Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 get a light spey...i wouldn't go over #6 and learn how to spey cast the single handers,it's allows you to fish places that doesn't allow room for back cast and it's fun!!....also remember that for summer/fall fishing 40' casts are the outside end of your fishing area....most fish are caught inside of that...i'm passing this on as i have gone through the same thing you are now and this advice was passed on to me i have tfo purely for the warranty,they warranty right in town here,it's no fault also i don't need a 500+ dollar rod to go fishing...spend money on line tho my next rod will be and 11' light spey....#5 or #6, possibly the Amundson Wind Warrior,once I get to demo it first....they sound fair enough in price and have a lifetime warranty Quote
lethfisher Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 Does the switch count as a light spey?? Also I know there are lots of dealers around calgary that I could go through but $250 for a brand new switch is a pretty sweet deal. If I could get it in town then I definitely would. Quote
ogilvie Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 Does the switch count as a light spey?? Also I know there are lots of dealers around calgary that I could go through but $250 for a brand new switch is a pretty sweet deal. If I could get it in town then I definitely would. This is a conversation that goes on constantly...and a good one for sure...however,IMO and my experiences over the years there are really few deals. When the going gets tough the tough get going!...what does that mean...????.....Well, there are many rods bought in this particular area of fly fishing and a great majority of those are sold or put away after a very short time. A good place to start is to find a rod that has enough balls to perform well and comfortably...light in hand and "tip Savy!" Line matches are critical to having fun and progressing adequately. Many times during casting clinics we notice that many rods are "empty"..simply not there when demanded. It is like trying to cast a 3wt rod with floating line into the head winds of a storm...you notice immediately that something is not right. So where does that leave us? well...to be safe go to the Middle....find a rod that will be friendly immediately in hand,with good backbone,not heavy, warranty is not really an issue because all rods are warrantied,$500 is a good point to aim for.....even if you have the money,big bucks doesn't guarantee success in a new field.Good rod,good line ,good understanding of your goal and fun will be had. C Quote
FlashGordon Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 Does the switch count as a light spey?? Also I know there are lots of dealers around calgary that I could go through but $250 for a brand new switch is a pretty sweet deal. If I could get it in town then I definitely would. spey is a style of casting not so much a rod two handed rods were developed for spey casting switch rods were developed for either single hand over hand casting or two handed spey casting there's some grey area here as far as switch rods and switch casting...(terminology) also for the record you can overhand cast a two handed spey rod,(look it up on youtube,neat) and single hand spey a switch now the traditional spey rod is 15' feet long and for use with long or mid belly lines,i guess in my earlier reply i'm pretty much only thinking of the bow so IMO there's no need for the 15' 10wt or whatever rod as much class can be had in casting them they're over kill and make the bow fish caught small,it would take a monster fish to make any sport of it.i almost bought a 10wt because it was cheap,glad i didn't thx to ninja advice i researched switch rods and every where i turned i heard they do neither well but i see them cast and catch fish perfectly all the time so maybe you can tell me what the switch is like,if you buy it so in comes the light spey is a new term to me and something i'm interested in for fishing around here,something around 11' ...two hand style, light,for two handed spey casting only,i think the spey casting style is the most useful tool on the bow,my opinion finding what you like is more than casting a rod in a parking lot or for 30 mins on the river....it's spending time and trying different scenerios and conditions of fishing to come up with what YOU like...or maybe might like in your next rod there's lots of discussions on the intraweb...pictures too! ..where do you think i came up with most of this? when in doubt google and dig deep.....actually go read the fist few replies to this thread not hard to tell i'm still wired from work,one more shift then i'm fishing again.....sweeeeeet wonder what bamboo rods are like,might have to try it out Quote
lethfisher Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 Other than the actual switch rod being 1 foot longer, would there be any difference in casting with a 10 ft 6wt with a fighting butt rather than an 11 ft 6wt Switch rod... I am asking because on the TFO site they have 11 ft 6wt Deer Creek Switch for $339 http://www.templeforkflyrods.com/rods/Switch.html#T But you can get a 10 ft 6wt Professional Series for $194 http://www.templeforkflyrods.com/rods/professional.html#T (scroll down a bit to the ones with the fighting butts) Surely only 1 foot more of rod can't cost $145 can it???? Why wouldn't you just "spey cast" with that 10 ft rod... plus you can use to money you save to get line for it... Quote
toolman Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 The TFO 10' 6wt. is a single hand rod with a fighting butt which does not spey cast very well with two hands. I know this as I own this rod. Single hand rods have different blank designs/construction than Spey rods. Buy a real two hander if you want to two hand Spey cast or go with single hand Spey casting with your single hand rod, using appropriate lines. Quote
headscan Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 Other than the actual switch rod being 1 foot longer, would there be any difference in casting with a 10 ft 6wt with a fighting butt rather than an 11 ft 6wt Switch rod... I am asking because on the TFO site they have 11 ft 6wt Deer Creek Switch for $339 http://www.templeforkflyrods.com/rods/Switch.html#T But you can get a 10 ft 6wt Professional Series for $194 http://www.templeforkflyrods.com/rods/professional.html#T (scroll down a bit to the ones with the fighting butts) Surely only 1 foot more of rod can't cost $145 can it???? Why wouldn't you just "spey cast" with that 10 ft rod... plus you can use to money you save to get line for it... There are probably a few things that factor into the price difference like design of the taper, how many they sell, etc. in addition to the extra foot of graphite and cork. You can always use a single-handed rod to spey cast with the right line. The single hand lines I have experience spey casting are the Loop Opti Stream, Loop Multi, and Airflo 40+ and they all work well. The 40+ is the recommended line for some switches and light two-handers (I use a 7wt on my Decho 4119 and Beulah 5/6 switch). If you're looking to get into spey casting, I'd start by either learning to spey cast a single hand rod with the right line if you don't want to spend a lot of money or get a proper two hander rather than a switch (this is mainly personal preference on my part because I'm not a big fan of switch rods). Are you primarily going to use it on the Bow? If so, I'd go down to Fish Tales and ask if they still have the Decho 4119 or 5122 demo rods and start by trying them out. They're medium action rods, so if you aren't crazy about them you can move to something with a faster or slower action depending on your preference. Either that or shoot me a pm and I'd be happy to let you try my 4119 or 5122 next time I head out. Quote
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