The Three Stooges Thread

[nick]

The other three party's (NDP, Lib, Bloc) got over 60% of the votes, so why shouldn't they work together and form government if it's possible? It's written right in the constitution that if a minority gov't fails, another can try and control the House. I agree, this isn't the best way to do it, but with only one right wing party, and four centre/left parties it was an inevitable outcome eventually. And who's to say how it will work until we try it. Multiple party systems work in places like Sweden, and they have one of the most productive governments around.

 

On just a Steve Harper note, he painted himself into this corner by trying to cut the party funding of all the other parties, and you could bet that if he was in their position he would be raising hell, too.

 

And if people want to talk about "why did I vote," look at provincial politics. I didn't vote for Eddie, and neither did 47% of my fellow Albertans, yet he controls I think all the seats except six. THAT, my friends, is a travesty.

 

Personally, I just want to see a government actually pass some bills. I'm getting sick of electing a minority Conservative government every two years, especially at over $30M a shot. Fundamentaly, as long as the Conservatives run as they are under Harper, they will never win the east, and such never form a majority.

[Jeffro]

Consitutional or not, I fail to see how our current government has failed the people of this country. The only thing they have done that is considered so drastic is cut off the money hungry politicians from the peoples pocket a bit more. This doesn't warrant a political coup in my opinion, as well as the majority of Canada.

[darrinhurst]

Consitutional or not, I fail to see how our current government has failed the people of this country. The only thing they have done that is considered so drastic is cut off the money hungry politicians from the peoples pocket a bit more. This doesn't warrant a political coup in my opinion, as well as the majority of Canada.

I agree. The current goverment has been in "power" for what? 40 days? He's supposed to reverse the current financial mess in only 30 days? Give me a break. It's a lame excuse to try and win back what you failed to win in the first place.

 

My understanding is that the Governor General has the right to call another Election. As much as that would suck financially, I hope that is the action she calls for and the Conservatives win a Majority Goverment this time around to make Dion et al look like a bunch of complete idiots.

 

Not that they don't already.

 

[Harps]

The other three party's (NDP, Lib, Bloc) got over 60% of the votes, so why shouldn't they work together and form government if it's possible? It's written right in the constitution that if a minority gov't fails, another can try and control the House. I agree, this isn't the best way to do it, but with only one right wing party, and four centre/left parties it was an inevitable outcome eventually. And who's to say how it will work until we try it. Multiple party systems work in places like Sweden, and they have one of the most productive governments around.

 

On just a Steve Harper note, he painted himself into this corner by trying to cut the party funding of all the other parties, and you could bet that if he was in their position he would be raising hell, too.

 

And if people want to talk about "why did I vote," look at provincial politics. I didn't vote for Eddie, and neither did 47% of my fellow Albertans, yet he controls I think all the seats except six. THAT, my friends, is a travesty.

 

Personally, I just want to see a government actually pass some bills. I'm getting sick of electing a minority Conservative government every two years, especially at over $30M a shot. Fundamentaly, as long as the Conservatives run as they are under Harper, they will never win the east, and such never form a majority.

 

 

Bingo!!!

 

Most of this thread is Blah Blah Blah.

I say down with the Cons. They have wasted our time and money.

 

[flyfishfairwx]

Bingo!!!

 

Most of this thread is Blah Blah Blah.

I say down with the Cons. They have wasted our time and money.

 

 

HA Ha you are only pissed cause you share the same Name as the supposed bad guy in the 3idiots coupe.

 

 

 

 

[flyfishfairwx]

HA Ha you are only pissed cause you share the same Name as the supposed bad guy in the 3idiots coupe.

 

And you if don't think that this is going to waste alot more money....

 

The Libs and the NDP will first top up their coffers and pay off their parties debt and then hire a lot of folks who helped them and Fudged the country... be careful what you wish for!!!!

 

[Harps]

This is the stuff I want to avoid:

http://www3.pipsc.ca/portal/page/portal/science/issues

 

Harper's already cutting gov't depts that look out for the health and safety of Canadians. But who needs safe food (or fish habitat)?

 

 

[Weedy1]

I guess putting in a separatist pig and giving him veto power is better that Harper.

I really hope there isn't any military legislation Duceppe decides to veto while he has the magic wand.

[SanJuanWorm]

I just wish for once in my life time to have a PM with some charisma. Since forever I don't give 2 shits about government or whomever is running it. I do vote. I just shake my head at the leaders we have.

 

 

[nick]

 

Harper has failed our country by getting 35% of the voter support, then crying for more time when the other 65% of the parliment has a better idea and are willing to work together.

 

As far as I know, the coalition is only to pass predetermined bills. And the Bloc has no veto right, as is claimed by the Cons. Theeir support is just needed if the Coalition would succeed in getting a passing vote. No different than the Cons getting the NDP to agree on something, as an example.

 

DID YOU KNOW:

-in the Canadian parlimentary design the Prime Minister doesn't actually have to be elected, they are simply the person who controls the House of Commons

-a voter doesn't vote for a party, leader, PM, whatever. They only vote for an MP. that MP can flip flop sides and opinions whenever. Which is what harper is hoping for by offering pillow jobs to Liberals

 

This stuff makes for interesting reading anyway

[Pythagoras]

So sad on so many different layers....Harper screws the pooch with dirty/petty politics (with a minority Gov!)....The evil sovereignists even being able to run as a federal party...cheezy camera phone quality address from the opposition...world in economic meltdown (it's pretty bad out there folks) and all we get is bureaucracy, petty politics and power grabs...I could go on but I'm hitting the keys a little too hard for my liking.

 

P.S...Don't hold back Dryfly...tell us how you really feel! lol

[Weedy1]

And the Bloc has no veto right, as is claimed by the Cons. Theeir support is just needed if the Coalition would succeed in getting a passing vote. No different than the Cons getting the NDP to agree on something, as an example.

 

Veto:

The vested power or constitutional right of one branch or department of government to refuse approval of measures proposed by another department, especially the power of a chief executive to reject a bill passed by the legislature and thus prevent or delay its enactment into law.

 

I'd say the Bloc will have what closely resembles Veto power wouldn't you? Let's not split hairs here.

 

when the other 65% of the parliment has a better idea and are willing to work together.

 

As of last night about 1 in 30 people from Alberta would agree with that statement.

 

and are willing to work together.

 

We'll see. I wouldn't give it more than a few weeks before Jack is back sleeping with Harper.

[rehsifylf]

Consitutional or not, I fail to see how our current government has failed the people of this country. The only thing they have done that is considered so drastic is cut off the money hungry politicians from the peoples pocket a bit more. This doesn't warrant a political coup in my opinion, as well as the majority of Canada.

 

I agree. It is interesting to see the partisan views displayed on this board - very closely resembles the house right now.

 

But you make a good point. Everyone is saying Harper played dirty politics with the political funding clause. A few facts (not opinions) regarding that:

 

1. The Conservatives have said they support this position and would introduce the legislation several times in the past,

2. The recent Angus Reid poll of Canadians (taken this week) showed that 60% of Canadians support eliminating public funding of political parties. 60% might not sound like a huge majority, but its the first thing I've seen 60% of Canadians agree on in a long time. I don't see how proposing changes that 60% of Canadians support is dirty politics.

3. The government funding is proportional to the number of votes recieved, so the party that will be most drastically impacted by reduced funding is the Conservatives.

 

Now for my opinion. The stimulus package issue is a red herring - clearly created after the fact. In Canada, October car sales set a new record - we are way behind the curve of the US as far as the economic fall-out from the financial crisis goes. We'll get there (no-one will escape the next two years), but we aren't there yet. Our banks are in nowhere near the same position as the the US. The IMF, OECD, and World Economic Forum all have stated that Canada is in the best shape of any industrialized nation in the world. So a stimulus package now would be ill-advised, since we cannot know what stimulus is required.

 

Our economy will be based on how the US goes. Nothing we can do about that. Take the bad with the good. Pretending that our government can isolate and protect Canada by creating a huge deficit that will have my children spending a decade to get out of (been there done that) might make it seem like the government is doing something, but the facade would be too costy.

 

I really wish that people would take the time to read some history on our government, where it came from, and how it works instead of just listening to politicians (be they Liberal, Conservative, NDP, or Bloc -they all have different interpretations) or even worse, listeing to the news and taking their 'opinion' as fact. Specifically - read some history on coalitions in our form of parliament (based on the British house) and understand that our government is no more similar to Germany or Itally than it is the the US. We do not use a proportional respresentation model. Also - look at how coalition governments are normally formed. They are formed after an election and before the government is formed, almost always involve the two largest parties (who represent a majority of the people). Had 1) the Liberals and NDP (both federal parties) won enough seats to form a majority coalition and they agreed to do this before the minority government of the conservatives formed the government or 2) the Liberals and the Conservatives formed a coalition; then it would be unprecedented, but at least in line with the intent of our parliamentary model (my opinion). Ask youself this question: If this is how our government is supposed to work, then why has this not happened (except during a world war) in Canada or Great Britain?

 

I saw someone suggest that we have four left wing parties and one right wing. If you examine policy and track record, you will see that the two that are closest in platformare the Conservative and the Liberals. The NDP and the Liberals have far more platform differences (particulalry on the Economic policy side of things). So it is interesting to me that they would form a coaltion based on an economic issue.

 

Last thing - the comment that "as far as I know the coalition is only to pass pre-determined bills" is perhaps the most disturbing comment I've read from somone who seems to have formed an opinion on this.

[adams]

I don't agree that Harper brought this on himself. By removing the funding to the political parties he was simply trying to show leadership by tightening the belts of the politicians before he asks us all to do the same. Don't forget, the Conservatives themselves lost the lion's share of the funding. The Conservatives bellied-up to the bar and the others ran like curr dogs instead of acting like men. I don't fault Harper one bit. His demeanor is simply misleading and the spin doctors take advantage of that to imply false intentions that work on people's minds.

 

The other parties should have accepted the funding cuts as doing their part in these tough economic times. It's the least they could have done. We will all have to make sacrifices.

 

Don't blame the warden for the riot.

[Flytyer]

I don't agree that Harper brought this on himself. By removing the funding to the political parties he was simply trying to show leadership by tightening the belts of the politicians before he asks us all to do the same. Don't forget, the Conservatives themselves lost the lion's share of the funding. The Conservatives bellied-up to the bar and the others ran like curr dogs instead of acting like men. I don't fault Harper one bit. His demeanor is simply misleading and the spin doctors take advantage of that to imply false intentions that work on people's minds.

 

The other parties should have accepted the funding cuts as doing their part in these tough economic times. It's the least they could have done. We will all have to make sacrifices.

 

Don't blame the warden for the riot.

 

 

If this is so why did he increase the size of cabinet????? Restraint not be shown in this case.

[Crowsnest]

Parliment has been prorogued

[Bowcane]

Guess I'm a day late and a dollar short but;

 

Everybody is worried about the Bloc and its views. Bottom line, Quebec will NEVER separate. Why would the spoiled brat of confederation leave? They will stay however and hold whomever ransom for its demands and idle threats of separation though.

 

However Jack Layton is most likely the main pot stirrer in this (really is Dion bright enough to master mind this?). Jackie boy would have us running around in matching green suits with red stars on our hats if he gets his way. He's likely eyeing power after Dion steps down as Liberal leader, that's scary, as someone who came from Ontario, I know what the NDP can do!

[rusty]

Heard a poll today that suggested that 3 out of 4 Canadians were afraid of the country's direction under the coalition and that 70% of people would support a Conservative majority over the coalition.

 

I'm disappointed with the prorogation (sp?) - I think they should have just called a damned election and been done with it.

 

For the love of God, I hope the Conservatives get their heads on straight and come up with a proper budget that can be supported by all parties. If the Lib-NDP-Bloc gong show tries to run them down despite a good budget, then they'll really get their asses handed to them in an election.

 

 

[rehsifylf]

For the love of God, I hope the Conservatives get their heads on straight and come up with a proper budget that can be supported by all parties. If the Lib-NDP-Bloc gong show tries to run them down despite a good budget, then they'll really get their asses handed to them in an election.

 

Suspending parliament will give Canadians a chance to get informed. Take the opportunity, I am.

 

Here is a view of what canada is facing and a summary of the update presented. I'm not sure what people are expecting them the government to do - it is what it is. the world econmoy will suck for the next year or two or three...

 

http://www.fin.gc.ca/ec2008/Ec/ectoc-eng.html

 

I'm betting that few have actually read this document and encourage you to read it. A couple of things that stood out to me-

 

Chart 1.9 - This is why I don't like the idea of massive stimulus leading to massive debt.

Chart 1.15 - perhaps the scariest of all

table 1.1 - What the private sector predicts future will look likeTable 2.3. Makes it very easy to see why Quebec want to separate.

Chart 2.3. The range of "predictions' for 2009 - makes it a little easier to understand why they are uncertain of what stimulus should be applied.

Chart 2.5 - Its bad all over - but Canada is far better than most

 

and this statement - In 1990–91, the Government spent almost 38 cents of every revenue dollar on debt service charges. This ratio has been falling steadily since 1996–97 and is expected to fall to 13 cents in 2008–09. I would rather suffer short term pain for long term gain, then blow a whole bunch of dough on things we don't need.

 

Check out chart number 1.13 - maybe stimulus for automobile manufacturing is not where we should focus. They are in trouble because they have not been competetive for many years.

 

One thing that is clear from reading this is why people in Ontario and especially Ottawa are smoked. Looks like the public sector employees might have to live in the real world. I work in the Oil Patch and we have a wage freeze and have started layoffs - and guess what, with Oil under $45 we understand that. "The legislation puts in place annual wage increases for the federal public administration, including senior members of the public service, as well as Members of Parliament, Cabinet Ministers, and Senators, of 2.3 per cent in 2007–08 and 1.5 per cent for the following three years." Since the beginning of the year, wage growth in the public sector has been leading that of the private sector.

 

One thing you'll notice though is that the plan to cut public funding for political parties is gone. And in addition to that, here are the other things that got pulled due to opposition from the 'coalition forces':

- Cuts to substantial salary increases for federally appointed judges.

- Measures to rein in spending by MPs and top civil servants, such as new restrictions on travel and expenses.

- Elimination or trimming of the roughly $6,500-per-MP salary increase scheduled to go into effect April 1, at a cost of $2 million.

- Cancellation of Christmas bonuses for management-class civil servants and executives of Crown corporations.

 

Hmm - doesn't look like most of the affected anyone outside of Ottawa.

[Castuserraticus]

Thanx for the link and comments. I spend a week away and you folks let the country go to hell.

 

I like the info on the differences between the US and Cdn housing markets - especially chart 1.15.

 

I think people seriously overestimate the amount of power the government has in directing the economy and the time it takes to turn around. The 1996-2007 good years were largely a result of the increased trade brought about by the Mulroney government's implementation of the Free Trade Agreement with the US in the early 1990's. We found out Cdn people and businesses could compete very effectively and successfully in the US and world markets.

 

Anyone who thinks government spending adds to the economy does not understand the bigger picture. Government spending comes from taxes. Taxes come from your pocket. It is impossible to tax your way to prosperity.

 

Canadians are not generally politically active. In the US, every special interest group lobbies actively for their cause. The many competing demands inevitably result in watered down government programs. Canadian politicians are freer to enact needed policies, such as topping up social program contributions like EI when needed, than any US government. Apathy is not so bad when viewed this way. We just have to sure we have the right people in charge. Is it better to have a former law professor or an economist in charge at these times?

 

Unlike private industry government tend to expand whether the economy is good or bad. It would be refreshing to see the public service share the pain.

 

On the topic of the auto industry: the worst analysis I've heard is that about 1/3 of the jobs would be lost if the big 3 went through bankruptcy. The executives are trying to make it look like the industry would disappear. This would not happen. It would just need to become instantly smaller in response to a smaller market. We've gone through this process a couple of times in the past 30 years of the energy industry and the industry is still here.

 

[kipper]

I think we should rename this thread HUEY, DEWEY and LEWY and Harper can be Uncle Scrooge!