Why I Will Never Tent Again....

[Smitty]

Why is killing for the sake of killing more immoral than torturing fish for the sake of torturing fish for our own ego and self-gratification?

 

I can hardly think of a more hedonistic 'sport' than C&R angling.

 

I have reconciled my demons; I know its hedonistic and I am ok with that. If I wasn't I'd stop fishing. Perhaps someday years from now I'll get to that moment of "Jack Shaw evolution" where I am completely satisfied with cutting off the point of my hook knowing full well my presentation skills were enough to induce the 'take'. (The "fights" on such "bump and release" fishing last mere seconds...)

 

If diehard C&R flyfishermen think they are closer to supporting PETA than our hunting fraternal brothers, I'll know then that we're that much closer to getting fishing banned completely, in my opinion. And I say that knowing that I'll very likely never fire a rifle at a big game animal.

 

Just some thoughts.

 

Smitty

 

[Brownstone]

wow..crazy pictures, spent quite of bit of time in the bush around Tumbler and that does not look like the type of forest I've seen in that area, but could be i guess.

 

some people hunt, some people fish,some people collect stamps..if its done legally .. who am I to judge? nice bear buddy

[alhuger]

Why is killing for the sake of killing more immoral than torturing fish for the sake of torturing fish for our own ego and self-gratification?

 

I can hardly think of a more hedonistic 'sport' than C&R angling.

 

I have reconciled my demons; I know its hedonistic and I am ok with that. If I wasn't I'd stop fishing. Perhaps someday years from now I'll get to that moment of "Jack Shaw evolution" where I am completely satisfied with cutting off the point of my hook knowing full well my presentation skills were enough to induce the 'take'. (The "fights" on such "bump and release" fishing last mere seconds...)

 

If diehard C&R flyfishermen think they are closer to supporting PETA than our hunting fraternal brothers, I'll know then that we're that much closer to getting fishing banned completely, in my opinion. And I say that knowing that I'll very likely never fire a rifle at a big game animal.

 

Just some thoughts.

 

Smitty

 

 

Apparently I need to work on my sarcasm guys, I am not off to buy a PETA membership. I own rifles, hunting dogs and I love to fish - none of this is sarcasm. I personally could never muster myself to shoot something as majestic as a bear for sport. I just can't cross that line, it's not a moral judgment it's a personal gut check. I do not lose sleep over hunting or harvesting, like I said in my post, I support it (and reap the benefits myself) where it's sustainable.

 

 

al

 

 

[rehsifylf]

 

 

I agree with Smitty. Everyone draws the line somewhere on what they would kill/harm for sport. We all go bananas when we see a huge rainbow or brown caught and pictures flashed on here. Lots of people would never understand that - and not just members of PETA.

[dube]

That feller needs a pedicure in the worst way.

 

Andy, get off your high horse. What makes a human life any more valuable than a bears? Don't lose your *hit and start flaming, I want to hear your reasoning behind this. What in the hell gives us the privilege to believe it's us versus them. We are all animals. I honestly feel worse when I see pictures like that or see a deer lying in the ditch than I do anytime I hear of any human eating it. Why? Well since when has a bear come and attacked anyone in their house. Ever hear of a deer driving a car into anyone? Ever been chained in the back yard by a dog. Most animals just go by instinct where as we just randomly go around and eff *hit up, purposely, willfully. This top of the food chain mentality is utter bullshit. Without all the tools and machines we are helpless little pink piggies that could hardly survive one winter in this climate if left to our own resources.

 

I always get worked up about these bear topics, the last thread regarding the sow with the cubs that ended up shot had the same tone. "well the bear was dangerous rah rah rah....." fine. I can accept that. Some redneck just got himself a giant rug, sweet, I'd lie on it. I'd enjoy a steak if he offered it. My neighbors son loads me up with game every fall for shoveling his moms walks all winter. I love it. Would rather eat game than some chemically raised bovine but to say we have any more right to be here than any other native species of our vast wilderness is arrogant and sick if you ask me.

 

Torture fish, shoot bears, kill trees, bomb countries, pollute oceans do whatever the hell you want andy. But if you feel sick to think of someone comparing a bears life to your own then let me leave it at this. My reaction to see a photo of you face down in the dirt with a grizz paw on your bloody carcass would be almost exactly the same. Although I must admit with the bear I would go "what a shame" if it were a person my first thought would be they had it coming.

 

I realize I need to be less emotional on this topic but it really drives me nuts to listen to the self righteous crap people spew sometimes.

 

The proud look on father and son faces as they lean over that big bastard as if they took him down with their bare hands is what makes me sick.

 

 

[dube]

For the record I don't post these replies just to stir *hit up. I'd genuinely like to hear from anyone who can present a good argument as to how the killing of a man is any different than the killing of any large mammal.

 

What would be the difference if I were to hide in an alley and shoot the first person that walks by or if I sit in a blind and do the same to big game. Besides legality of course which are our rules not theirs so I'm not sure they apply in the great scheme of things.

 

Anyone?

 

 

I also won't accept sustainable harvest as a means of promoting healthy populations as that concept could easily apply to our species in terms of global demand for resources.

[SamIam]

Dube- When was the last time a fish stuck a hook in a human's mouth, let them pull on it until they were exhausted, and then yanked them out of the water? Isn't this what you do to the poor defenseless fishy? If you are going say that humans are no better than any other large mammals, then by the same token, we are no better than any living thing. What makes a large animal better than the littlest bug? Seems like if you are saying Andy is on a high horse, then you are on a high horse too. Why is a bear any different than an elk, deer or moose? The killing of a man is different because we are of the same species.

 

I also won't accept sustainable harvest as a means of promoting healthy populations as that concept could easily apply to our species in terms of global demand for resources.

 

So because we don't sustainably harvest humans as a means of population control, its not acceptable to harvest animals as a means of population control? What has happened in your life to give you these ideals? Seems to me that if you really truly believe this, then you should reduce yourself to a "helpless little pink piggy" and live like you believe. That sidewalk you shovel every winter and get meat for shoveling, used to be the home of all these animals you are against killing, so what gives you the right to displace those animals from the home they have had for milleniums?

[SanJuanWorm]

China has population controls.

[johnbransfield]

Just a quick question, where in the orignal post does it say this guy was a sport hunter?? How do you know he didn't eat all of the meat?

 

Don't agree with hunting grizz for sport but wont ever come down on someone for killing one for the table.

 

Nice bear.

[Castuserraticus]

wow..crazy pictures, spent quite of bit of time in the bush around Tumbler and that does not look like the type of forest I've seen in that area, but could be i guess.

 

some people hunt, some people fish,some people collect stamps..if its done legally .. who am I to judge? nice bear buddy

 

It's been many years since I've been in that area and my initial thought was the same. That looks more like coastal rain forest - Alaska?.

[rusty]

Anyone who's been C&R fishing for any length of time has released a fish that was bleeding heavily or didn't revive well. It happens. I've seen lots of dead trout from bad releases...it's simply a part of our sport, and you have to be OK with that to fish. That is, you need to accept that you are going to impale a living creature trying to survive with a sharp hook, run it until it's exhausted, and release it afterwards - potentially killing it in the process. Even the best C&R guys kill the odd fish, and if the mutilated mouths on the Liv, etc, are any indication, extensive C&R can permanently damage and maim creatures who are just trying to get by in a harsh environment.

 

I personally believe that properly shooting a bear (ie: boiler room, heart/lung shot) is less offensive than going down to the mountains and C&Ring 100 fish (provided that populations are good). I have to think that at very least, the hide of that animal will be put to good use. That bear also had the chance to reproduce I'm sure. I guess I fail to see how shooting that animal is any more wasteful than the millions and millions of animals that will die this winter or any other year for that matter. Even if the pelt were harvested and the meat were left (totally legal in AB, not sure about BC), scavengers and bacteria will ensure that no speck of that is "wasted" per se. A properly shot animal doesn't suffer one bit - I don't know if I'd say the same about a trout played to the point of exhaustion.

 

You either accept that humans are at the top of the food chain and that we kill and eat other things, or you believe that we're all equal. You can't bitch and moan about how cruel hunting is and then stop off at Superstore and pick up a pack of pork chops for the BBQ.

[Gil]

You either accept that humans are at the top of the food chain and that we kill and eat other things, or you believe that we're all equal. You can't bitch and moan about how cruel hunting is and then stop off at Superstore and pick up a pack of pork chops for the BBQ.

I don't think you should compare fish with a grizzly. For example, no one would argue that an insect life has equal value to a trout. A reasonable person understands there is a difference between an insect and a fish in terms of mental capacity, ability to reproduce quickly, longevity etc. By the same token you can't compare a bear to a fish. Nor should you compare a bear to a person.

[Weedy1]

Shot around tumbler ridge BC.

 

There have been all kinds of these images floating around the net for years. Yes these are large animals, but most people are blown away by them simply because they have never seen animals of these sizes before and didn’t realize they existed. The photos are typically composed to falsely increase they size of the animals in relation to the people in the photos.

 

Here’s some more examples:

 

Worlds Largest Grizzly

 

World’s Largest Pig

 

World’s Largest Moose

 

World’s Largest Dog

 

World’s Largest Cat

 

World’s Largest Cougar

 

And last, but not least I present you with:

The World’s Biggest Pussy

 

 

 

[SanJuanWorm]

OMG lol.

[Taco]

That worlds biggest pussy is a scary mother****er ain't it, LMFAO

[maxwell]

weedy u made my day! freakin awsome! and sorta scary! great examples of the camera angle b.s ... see lots of it fishin too.. makes me laugh....

[dube]

SamIam, I'm not saying there is any difference between a deer or elk or bear or spider or whale or fish or anything else that lives on this planet. All of it will die and go back to feed everything else. And we all kill and eat and consume and pollute and the cycle goes on and on. I'm still not sure how besides the fact we are human and for that reason alone are more sympathetic to our own kind equates to our lives being any more valuable.

 

I don't feel shooting a bear is any more or less cruel than C&R fishing. I'm not worried that the bear in these photos suffered. I even understand why someone would do that, same reason I fish or snowboard or mountain bike, because it's fun, I like too. We are the one of the few species capable of doing things for fun, does that make us more valuable. We are smart enough to develop tools to accomplish almost any task including ambushing and killing things, but is it our right as a species to exploit that power? Just because we can doesn't mean we should. I'm no angel, although I try and make a point of doing what I can to tread lightly. I have more respect for the planet as a whole than us as individuals, and if you see a difference between the loss of a human life and any other life then I think you are failing to see the big picture. To me that is our greatest fault as a species, our desire to conquer and control instead of doing simply what you need to survive. I feel we are all born onto this earth equal and whatever happens after that is our own personal experience but to think that one is more or less than another is arrogant.

 

Again, not against killing. I think about killing all the time although it's usually in traffic or in line at the grocery store. I am against self righteous pricks who think the earth is spinning for us alone and fail to see the mess we are leaving behind. I'm not saying I'm not leaving behind my own personal mess but at least I don't feel it's my right just because I'm human.

 

Do any of the folks who feel I'm a bleeding heart lover of cutsey wootsy teddy bears and bambis have a decent argument to make or will there be more bullshit chatter about how I can't feel a bears life is worth something and have the nerve to hook a fish or buy a steak at safeway.

[jksnijders]

great examples of the camera angle b.s ... see lots of it fishin too.. makes me laugh....

 

 

Yep, depth perception is where its at.. How often do you see a fish pics where the guy has his arm outstretched toward the camera? And that moose, wonder how far he was behind the head, probably 8 feet at least? (Still a big f'n moose though)

[AndyW]

Andy, get off your high horse. What makes a human life any more valuable than a bears? Don't lose your *hit and start flaming, I want to hear your reasoning behind this.

It is real simple for me. I am a human and I do value human life over animal life. I also value animal life but to a lesser degree as I had a chicken breast for lunch today. If you consider this a "high horse" then yes I rule over the horse I ride as well.

 

Would rather eat game than some chemically raised bovine but to say we have any more right to be here than any other native species of our vast wilderness is arrogant and sick if you ask me.

I agree with this and I did not say anything contrary to this statement.

 

Torture fish, shoot bears, kill trees, bomb countries, pollute oceans do whatever the hell you want andy. But if you feel sick to think of someone comparing a bears life to your own then let me leave it at this. My reaction to see a photo of you face down in the dirt with a grizz paw on your bloody carcass would be almost exactly the same. Although I must admit with the bear I would go "what a shame" if it were a person my first thought would be they had it coming.

I have done all of the above with the exception of bombing a country with no plans to ever give it a try. The last part of your statement is disturbing- and because I have never met you face to face I will chalk up your crazy talk assumptions that you have made about me because you let emotion rule your existence, actions, and ramblings- violent ramblings to boot.

 

I realize I need to be less emotional on this topic but it really drives me nuts to listen to the self righteous crap people spew sometimes.

Self righteous? Your rant is about as self righteous and simplistic as one could get. The intent of my original reply was to point out the hypocracy that people have when they see a picture of a dead bear- that is it. No doubt we have the ability to kill all the Grizzly Bears, Bull Trout, and the like. This is why we have Fish and Game management. Grizzly Bears are in better shape in BC than Chinook Salmon. Do you get this emotional when you see a picture of a bonked 50 pound Chinook? A Tuna sandwich? -another wild animal we choose to eat that is suffering the consequences.

 

A Grizzly Bear, a Bull trout, a Bighorn sheep. They all need big tracts of unspoiled, unique habitat to survive. We are past a time with our society in North America that we are hunting animals to extinction. This is why we have bag limits, limited draws, zero catch/kill limits depending on the species and population of said species, fish or game. As ironic and unimaginable that it probably seems to you the people who kill wild animals- no matter if it is a whitetail doe to eat or a bear for the pelt don't have this human against the animal mentality that you spewed in your rant. The first National Park was started by a hunter (Teddy Rosevelt) and the National Autubon Society was also started by a hunter. No different than Trout unlimited being started and run by fishermen. Exact same reasons behind the group.

 

The proud look on father and son faces as they lean over that big bastard as if they took him down with their bare hands is what makes me sick.

Well then all of the fishing pictures should make you equally as sick. Ear to ear grins after someone catches the 26" Brown that they have just fought for 20 minutes...

 

Time to remove the emotion goggles you view things through and check the facts before you let your uninformed bias get the best of you.

[Taco]

weedy u made my day! freakin awsome! and sorta scary! great examples of the camera angle b.s ... see lots of it fishin too.. makes me laugh....

 

ya it's scary how you can distort size with just the camera angle

 

 

[dube]

Dude you are so missing the point on this. I don't assume the guy in the photo figures he's better than the bear. I don't really think guys hunt because they are on a power trip and frankly I could give a *hit why they hunt. What bothers me is mostly a carry on from the last thread how we can all look at the photo of the "nice" bear that buddy shot and understand how he must have felt or why he finds enjoyment in the hunt. Thats fine and good, I seriously have no problem with that. Good job. Nice shot....whatever. It will make a great rug and a lifetime story, no doubt. But as for the sow who was hunted down and shot leaving orphaned cubs we feel great pity for the man who was killed and how horrible it must be for his family and good thing they caught the bear and everyone is safe. We are heroes yay! The evil bear is dead. Rejoice. Talk about hypocrites.