Need Help With A "regulations" Debate

[OneMoreLastCast]

I recently got a fella I work with into Fly Fishing, but of course he still resorts back to his hardware on occasion.

 

Last night we had a debate on something that I otherwise wouldn't have any concern with, but I can see the confusion.

 

His Crank Baits, Plugs, etc. all come with multiple tri-hooks attached and the regulation on number of hooks allowed is a little unclear.

 

Under General Sportfishing Regulations in 3 successive rules...."It is Unlawful to":

 

- Use a line in angling equipped with more than three hooks (eg-three hooks, or three single hook lures, or one three hook lure).

- Use a lure in angling with more than three hooks as part of it.

- Use a hook with more than three points on a common shaft (See important Definitions...)

 

Related definition:

Hook - means a single, double, or triple pointed hook on a common shaft, and includes hooks attached to a lure. (Note: some legal lures appear to have a hook with four points, but actually have two shafts each with two points).

 

Does this mean that if a lure has two treble hooks, does a person have to remove one of them? or does it mean that if a lure only has two treble hooks, they ar allowed to add a third?

 

I see it as being able to use more than one treble hook the way it is written, (which is ridiculous IMO), but the 1st rule says "Three Hooks....or one three hook lure"

 

What is the use in going barbless if it is allowed to cast lures with three treble hooks attached?

 

Something that should be looked at being changed I think. Should simply be 3 single hooks or 1 Treble hook per line.

[toolman]

Totally agree.

[DonnieM]

Hmmm really interesting. For some reason I was always under the impression that you could only have one treble per lure, and had to remove one if it came with two, such as most crankbaits in Alberta waters. I dont remember when or how that was put in my head but that is what I always thought as lawful.

[Pipes]

It is confusing to say the least. A treble hook counts as one hook as they stem from a common shank. So you can have up to 3 trebles on one lure.

Other legal presentations would be 3 lures on one line provided no one lure had more than one hook. For example, you could have 3 spoons on the same line and all 3 had one treble hook each.

In my opnion, it seems a little excessive as well. When walleye fishing with plugs, I always found it a pain with more than one and often they would snag up on each other when casting.

[rehsifylf]

Sure,

 

But with less than three treble hooks how are those guys going to be able to yank the fish out of the water and into the boat from 30 feet away?

[headscan]

Does this mean that if a lure has two treble hooks, does a person have to remove one of them?

 

This was always my interpretation of it. If a CO stopped someone with 2+ treble hooks on a line they could probably charge them, but using the points you quote from the regs they could probably successfully challenge the fine in court.

[Smitty]

Sure,

 

But with less than three treble hooks how are those guys going to be able to yank the fish out of the water and into the boat from 30 feet away?

 

 

Better question:

 

What are my chances of snagging trout if I have a streamer with a nymph dropper and the third fly tied to the tippet tag end?

 

Careful boys. As Barry Mitchell once stated "I got no problem with your method as long as its legal". There's a difference between discussing potentially confusing regs vs invoking good old fashioned stereotypes. Well, unless we're content to be branded as the typical elitist snobs.

 

As for me, I fish with two trebles at most; I usually remove the third one if it comes on a crankbait. My understanding is that the treble hook counts as one, because of common shaft. Should be clearer in the regs though, I agree.

 

Smitty

[toolman]

Large lures with 3 large treble hooks attached, can sometimes severely damage small fish and increases in mortality have been noted in the past. In my opinion, it's about the damage/ increase in mortality to the fish, not the fishing methods,

Fly vs Spin etc..

Same for large Wire wrapped SJW's tied on curved bait hooks. Lots of problems with the hooks penetrating up through the roof of the mouth, sometimes out through the eye socket, causing damage/high mortality rates in smaller fish.

Regs need to be designed to protect the fish and our fishery. If the gear/method used is causing significant damage or significantly higher mortality rates, then we need to address the problem through education and regulations.

[cdock]

Hmmm really interesting. For some reason I was always under the impression that you could only have one treble per lure, and had to remove one if it came with two, such as most crankbaits in Alberta waters. I dont remember when or how that was put in my head but that is what I always thought as lawful.

 

I think that is what BC specifies.

[cdock]

Same for large Wire wrapped SJW's tied on curved bait hooks. Lots of problems with the hooks penetrating up through the roof of the mouth, sometimes out through the eye socket, causing damage/high mortality rates in smaller fish.

 

This happened to me in BC (not with a SJW), a small cutty decided to hit my clouser and right up into his head. I felt so bad. He didn't make it and I had to leave him behind. I was looking for a bully. It sucked.

Toolman do you mean there is a higher incident rate with that style of hook? How much more so do you think? Does the size make a large difference say a size 10 doesn't seem to do this but a size 8 does? Curious to know as I'll stop using that style hook in my tying if it does make an impact.

[cdock]

Reading more closely the key is the definition of a hook. It says 3 points on one shaft is ok so three hooks on a lure as long as they share a single shaft and no more than three points is ok. It's interesting the note that 4 points are actually 2 hooks, 2 shafts with 2 points. This creates confusion because I've seen many 3 point hooks with 2 shafts (1 with 2 points and 1 with one point) so this would mean on a 2 hook lure there are actualy 4 HOOKS. And this is how they are sold. Just check your lures and try to make sense of the regs or play it safe and change the treble hooks to single shaft hooks. That's what I did in BC a few years back. I read an article some time ago discussing that a treble hook doesn't necessarily increase a hook set as only one hook usually sticks anyway (except on smaller fish like Toolman mentioned) so there is really no need for a treble hook. May miss a few more fish but that's fishing. Man it's been awhile since I've fished crank baits. Think I could toss one with my 9 weight?

[rehsifylf]

Better question:

 

What are my chances of snagging trout if I have a streamer with a nymph dropper and the third fly tied to the tippet tag end?

 

Careful boys. As Barry Mitchell once stated "I got no problem with your method as long as its legal". There's a difference between discussing potentially confusing regs vs invoking good old fashioned stereotypes. Well, unless we're content to be branded as the typical elitist snobs.

 

As for me, I fish with two trebles at most; I usually remove the third one if it comes on a crankbait. My understanding is that the treble hook counts as one, because of common shaft. Should be clearer in the regs though, I agree.

 

Smitty

 

I'd be content with being branded as a typical elitist snob - just would never want to be branded as hyper politically correct, or humourless. As far as I know, beating myself in the head with a hammer isn't illegal either, but I don't do it, cause I can't understand how anyone would enjoy that. Plumbers and Electrictians have a similar rivalry to bomb chuckers and fly fishers - and in my opinion there is nothing wrong with one making fun of the other. As for those that enjoy fishing both ways - well as a heterofisherman - I don't get that either. I'm not saying they're wrong, only that I am much better than they are.

 

But I don't limit my superior attitude for those that like to chuck hardware, I make fun of the flyfishers I know that use 2 flies - I don't see that as sporting either (For once, I like BCs regs over Alberta's on that one).

 

I reserve the right to mock or be mocked - without prejudice.

[toolman]

Toolman do you mean there is a higher incident rate with that style of hook? How much more so do you think? Does the size make a large difference say a size 10 doesn't seem to do this but a size 8 does? Curious to know as I'll stop using that style hook in my tying if it does make an impact.

 

The curved bait hook is at the root of the problem and using smaller hook sizes, say #6/#8 or even smaller will help.

Also, offsetting the hook point so that it is not parallel with the shank will also reduce the number of these injuries/mortalities.

 

"I reserve the right to mock or be mocked-without prejuice..."...That's funny...

[SamIam]

I always changed the factory trebles to single hooks when I used to pull plugs for steelhead. The same reasoning may apply here for anyone using plugs. For one, factory trebles are usually cheap cheap cheap. Secondly, the a single hook shaft is much thicker and stronger than a treble hook of the same comparable size. Nothing worse than a big fish straightening the hook on you. Third, I sometimes felt that if two or possibly three of the "hooks" on a single treble were embedded in the fishes mouth, say one in the lower jaw and one in the upper jaw, the fish had leverage to work the hooks out. I would just say from feel, without keeping any stats on it, that my hooking ratio stayed the same going to single hooks, and my landing percentage went up.

[MMAX]

In the rare event when I spin fish I always cut two of the three hooks off the treble with side cutters. Tell your buddy to try that MissinTheBow. It's a hell of alot easier on the fish.

[rhuseby]

One treble hook, with three points, is one hook. A lure can have 3 hooks, treble or single, on it. You will never get busted in Alberta fishing a plug with three trebles on it. The other discussions about hook damage, tangling, etc. are all valid. Check your regs carefully in BC though, because trebles are prohibited on many waters.

[NormanMcLean]

I'm fishing with 3 dry flies tomorrow. It's the next big thing. Get on board with the revolution.

[MMAX]

Why don't you kill 3 birds with 1 stone and tie a dry fly on a treble hook.