Saving The Livingstone

[mikefromsundre]

Neat idea shredneck.

[Tako]

You're suggesting another test and another license for camping? I don't think that would fly very far.

 

This is a very complex problem, that doesn't start and end with random camping.

[adc]

I've just been reading about your plite with regards to the livingstone, it seems such a same, if theres anything you think we can do over here in the UK to help please don't hesitate to ask, I don't know if we can but we'd be willing to try, I'll put a post on our forum over here you never know, hope something get done over there

Thanks a bunch FT............All help gratefully accepted......

 

Al..

[adc]

"Back to original thread idea. The key is enforcement. The laws governing off road vehicles are there. It is the law that you have to be licenced and wear a helmet. How many do? We have laws about crossing streams. But we do not have the man power to enforce. Ever driven QE2 or even the Deerfoot? We do have laws about speeding. We have laws against poaching -yet it happens all the time."

 

My point exactly Mike........We don't need new rules, just enforcement of what is already in place........That's why Streamwatch can work......The Streamwatch CO's have only one responsibility-----to patrol, educate and enforce regulations concerning the area to which they're assigned........fishing reg's, environmental breaches all fall within their responsibility..........There simply are not enough CO's out there to get the job done and they get pulled all over the place with bear issues and other things that don't keep them on the streams.........

Hope you didn't think I was trying to hi-jack the thread.......

[reevesr1]

Al,

Do you think it would be worthwhile to make a pinned post specific to the student CO(s)?

[Taco]

"Back to original thread idea. The key is enforcement. The laws governing off road vehicles are there. It is the law that you have to be licenced and wear a helmet. How many do? We have laws about crossing streams. But we do not have the man power to enforce. Ever driven QE2 or even the Deerfoot? We do have laws about speeding. We have laws against poaching -yet it happens all the time."

 

My point exactly Mike........We don't need new rules, just enforcement of what is already in place........That's why Streamwatch can work......The Streamwatch CO's have only one responsibility-----to patrol, educate and enforce regulations concerning the area to which they're assigned........fishing reg's, environmental breaches all fall within their responsibility..........There simply are not enough CO's out there to get the job done and they get pulled all over the place with bear issues and other things that don't keep them on the streams.........

Hope you didn't think I was trying to hi-jack the thread.......

 

And hopefully it will embarrass the government into hiring more F&W officers when it becomes public that the fishermen(persons?) are hiring people to do their enforcement for them

[mikefromsundre]

"Back to original thread idea. The key is enforcement. The laws governing off road vehicles are there. It is the law that you have to be licenced and wear a helmet. How many do? We have laws about crossing streams. But we do not have the man power to enforce. Ever driven QE2 or even the Deerfoot? We do have laws about speeding. We have laws against poaching -yet it happens all the time."

 

My point exactly Mike........We don't need new rules, just enforcement of what is already in place........That's why Streamwatch can work......The Streamwatch CO's have only one responsibility-----to patrol, educate and enforce regulations concerning the area to which they're assigned........fishing reg's, environmental breaches all fall within their responsibility..........There simply are not enough CO's out there to get the job done and they get pulled all over the place with bear issues and other things that don't keep them on the streams.........

Hope you didn't think I was trying to hi-jack the thread.......

No sorry I did not feel you had hijacked the thread adc. Your comments about stream watch were very valuable. A thougth, will stream watch encourage the gov't to increase their CO or will they sit back and say see we don't need to do more (I don't know)? Don't get me wrong I thing the stream watch program is great -but I have seen it in schools were teachers will in for short falls from the boards (using personal vehicles for sports teams or buying there own art supplies) and then the boards do not seem to anxious to step in because the teachers are doing it. Ideas???

Mike

[DonAndersen]

Guys,

 

For those with a short life span in Alberta, When I was a kid every forest officer, truck driver or grader operator working for Forestry could and would issue you a ticket for breaking most any kind of law. Things have changed. I've heard that we are now down to about 60 or so F&W Enforcement types most of which reside in cities and concern themselves with lost dicky birds, exotic wildlife and the like.

 

So what to do - well the East Slope Angling Regulations helped some. That added some protection but the other 90% of the equation was enforcement or education.

 

OK - Now what? the Fish and Gamers taught us a lesson. They've been asking for more enforcement for 30 years and the trend has gone down. So if the Gov't won't do it directly, perhaps a private/public partnership would work. Get the money and hope the Govt kicks in. Well Streamwatch in Central Alberta did just that. The Streamwatch folks fund about 50% of with the Govt kicking in some $'s + inkind contributions trucks etc. Of course, there were concerns that the Streamwatch person would become a glorified secretary or get caught up in dicky birds or playing with tourists. To this point, such fears have been unfounded. Ceertainly there have been occasions where Streamwatch folks were used for other than OHV and fishing infractions but by in large, they have kept their noses pointed firmly in the direction of what is important to our fisherries.

 

As far as Govt doing it alone. Forget it. Taint important!! Thirty years of F&Gers' pounding their heads against a wall taught us that. Now if we could just get F&Ger's to recognize their plan hasn't worked and help Streamwatch along, things would/could be a tad better.

 

I know in meetings with Govt that they are reluctant to give up the reins on anything where they have responsibility but on the other hand don't

have the resources to do the job and further rarely want the private sector to do the work for them. A Catch 22 if I ever saw one.

 

catch ya'

 

 

Don

[Xplorer]

Hey guys, haven't been around much lately and just found this thread.

 

I see many good suggestions with ENFORCEMENT being the best one in my opinion. I have an atv that I use responsibly, I am also a fisherman and a camper.

 

I have read through this entire thread and see a few discrepancies in these posts.

 

Someone mentioned that atv's and bikes were banned from the Waiparous area, this is not true. A designated trail system(GAMP) was set up for all users, Trucks were hit the hardest with the least amount of trails, Atv's and bikes are still allowed on most of the trails. I never used to quad or fish much at waiparous before GAMP but do much more now, less parties, drunks and crazies running around makes for a better experience. A group called the Calgary Quad Squad along with other 4wd and user groups has been installing bridges in the area to keep vehicles out of the creeks. All of this is being done with SRD's help and approval. This may be something that could be done in the Livingstone area as well.

 

Some one also said that there were 1 million atv's in alberta, that number seems a little high to me. The last stat I heard was around 300,000 registered atv's but I may be wrong and would be interested where that number came from because that number equals 1 atv for every 3.3 albertans.

 

I understand peoples sensitivity to this topic, especially when you are talking about places people have grow up going to, but don't feel that the "banning" talk is really required. If the government banned things because people broke the law and that activity impacted another persons enjoyment, I can't really think of much we would be allowed to do. I am not saying that atv'ers, poachers, fisherman or whoever is breaking the law is ok, just that it is not a valid reason to ban an activity.

 

I also understand peoples feeling about public land, but I feel that all user groups need to heard from, its never fair to listen to just one group. It is after all public land for everybody's enjoyment even if another persons enjoyment is not your idea of fun/relaxation etc.

 

 

I agree with most ideas here except banning of anything.

 

I really feel that more Enforcement would make the biggest difference with user groups helping out with trail maintenance, bridge building and trail clean ups.

 

Just my 2 cents

[TerryH]

Don, makes me want to reach for my wallet to support Stream Watch, and I will. What's a dicky bird? Terry

[DonAndersen]

Terry,

 

There are 3 types of birds:

1] game birds - grouse, ducks, partridges, geese - you know the ones that enthuse hunters - these you can kill within a legislated season

2] scavenger birds - crows and magpies and depending on whether you own the land or not - ravens - these birds are legal to kill anytime

3] dicky birds - everything else - song birds mostly although owls, hawks, eagles fall into this category - they are illegal to kill.

 

Hope this clears up the dicky bird situation.

 

Don

[reevesr1]

Terry,

 

There are 3 types of birds:

1] game birds - grouse, ducks, partridges, geese - you know the ones that enthuse hunters - these you can kill within a legislated season

2] scavenger birds - crows and magpies and depending on whether you own the land or not - ravens - these birds are legal to kill anytime

3] dicky birds - everything else - song birds mostly although owls, hawks, eagles fall into this category - they are illegal to kill.

 

Hope this clears up the dicky bird situation.

 

Don

Hey Don,

Is that true? Can you kill Crows or Magpies whenever you want, or did I just bite on a troll?

 

Edit: Answered my own question. I'll be damned.

[bulltrout]

1] game birds - grouse, ducks, partridges, geese - you know the ones that enthuse hunters

 

and fly tyers...

[Tako]

Hey Don,

Is that true? Can you kill Crows or Magpies whenever you want, or did I just bite on a troll?

 

Edit: Answered my own question. I'll be damned.

 

Black billed magpies. I'm not sure if AB has the other kind....

[DonAndersen]

rickr,

 

I don't troll - that's only for those guys with aluminum boats.

 

Don

[prairiebrown]

Brown Trout I completely agree with you, I fish a lot on the North Ram River and its the same crap going on there.