PlayDoh Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 In the end does the rod make a better fisher? I think not, if you like the higher end stuff, great I hope you have alot of sucess with it, but because something cost 1/2 the price of something you like does not mean it is no good! Just my two bits. Well said, But bring those poor rods in and put them under your bed. I have 2 rods now, a TFO and a Launch & neither of them would affect my chances of catching a fish, as apposed to each other. I'm a newbie, and still learning to cast, but I can see where a high end rod could improve your casting, if only by reducing effort. I'm not sure I'll ever pay $800 for a rod, but I might if in a few years if I feel the need to upgrade. And that all depends if I can feel the $600 difference while casting it. I don't mean it feels 'kinda' different, but my shoulder asks me to spend the money, or the line blasts off much farther then with a LE edition. lol. I honestly cant see the difference seeming worth it to me, unless I have some tax refund spending spree in the future. lol I think any kind of 'standardized' test of rods is part pseudo science. That reminds me, I never hear any mention of SA Scientific Angler rods or reels here. I actually was close to getting one, until I picked the Launch. Can anyone attest to their feel, durability. I have them in mind when I get a new reel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownstone Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Not to mention you have to pay a fee of 25 or 28 dollars just to get the part even though they are made here, so your not even getting that free tow. So if you buy a 200/300 dollar TFO and break it 4 times, you've basically just paid for another 2/300 dollar rod but you still only have one rod. This is why I will never buy a TFO. I would rather pay a fee of 25/28 dollars to actually have my rod sent somewere and fixed. G Loomis and Sage rule. That make no sense what so ever RnB .. so you'd rather pay 40 bucks to have your Sage shipped away for weeks rather than 25 bucks for on the spot replacement? and with Sage / Orvis you still only end up with one rod????? ...so if you walk into Sage in Washington looking for a replacement, theres no fee? TFO's are not the highest perfomance rods out there, but they are decent sticks with great in town warrenty.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regdunlop Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Dan Craft. I don't have a whole lot of experience with a ton of different rods, like some of you do, but the guys over at Rodbuilding.org seem to and they highly recommend them. Very limited experience on my part too, but I just built a Dan Craft (FTL) before christmas and can't wait to fish with it. Will it be any better than my Sage Launch or My TFO TiCr? Time will tell, but I imagine I will want to fish with it more if only because of the time I put in building it. That said, I voted for Sage as it suits my casting style and I would much rather fish with it over my TFO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rocknbugs Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 That make no sense what so ever RnB .. so you'd rather pay 40 bucks to have your Sage shipped away for weeks rather than 25 bucks for on the spot replacement? and with Sage / Orvis you still only end up with one rod????? ...so if you walk into Sage in Washington looking for a replacement, theres no fee? TFO's are not the highest perfomance rods out there, but they are decent sticks with great in town warrenty.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grannyknot Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 I love the feel of my TFO, love the warranty, love everything about it. It's a huge upgrade from my old St. Croix, IMHO. That being said, if my budget was a tad higher, I'd probably be loving my Orvis right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rocknbugs Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 That make no sense what so ever RnB .. so you'd rather pay 40 bucks to have your Sage shipped away for weeks rather than 25 bucks for on the spot replacement? and with Sage / Orvis you still only end up with one rod????? ...so if you walk into Sage in Washington looking for a replacement, theres no fee? TFO's are not the highest perfomance rods out there, but they are decent sticks with great in town warrenty.. Question 1 If I could replace Sage or GLoomis on the spot I would but because I cant then yes I would rather spend 40 to ship it somewere than buy a TFO. Not to mention there dude Im not the only one on this forum that does not use TFO so was that just a shot towards me or towards everyone that spend 40 to ship there Sage away to get fixed. Question 2 What??? Question 3 I dont know I dont live there. Thanks though and have a nice day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birchy Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 No need to be so defensive there RnB.. he's stating an opinion.. it's not a shot. I'm with Brownstone though.. IMO if you don't have alot of money to spend and you live in Calgary.. TFO is the way to go. I believe his point was that the Sage main office is in Washington.. so if you lived there, and brought it in for a warranty repair, you'd still have pay the $40.. thereby making it no different than TFO/Springbrook. I think alot of people on this thread are mistaking it for "which is the highest quality rod".. when it just said "which is your FAVORITE rod". If I only have ONE rod to use.. and it's the middle of a sweet hatch on the Bow, I certainly do not want to be waiting 3 weeks to get my broken rod back. Of course.. most of the people on here have multiple rods so that's really a non issue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayDoh Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 RnB, no offence, but I think your opinion of TFO is a little jaded by your experience with the personnel there. Your entitled to your opinion of course, but your logic as to the warranty and performance is a bit off. I think your point was that you'd rather have a rod that, in your opinion, was more worthy of repair. Rather then an inferior rod with local repair/replacement. Tommy Boy - Ted: But why do they put a guarantee on the box then? Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of sh1t. That's all it is. Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for right now, for your sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality item from me. I think most people can understand that, but bashing TFO (however slight), or any brand will only get you conflict. Trust me, I speak from experience, which I'm sure you'll recall. From what I've learned, TFO's Quality control isn't the greatest, but their rods preform well. I now have a TFO, and it almost identical IMO to the performance of my Launch. I think the warranty debate regarding local TFO service will always be split. My case was a prime example. I think if your purchasing a first rod, and don't see yourself buying another in the near future, yet want a rod at hand w/o a 6-8 waiting period, then a TFO is your rod. BTW at Russels if you buy the TFO combo, you can exchange it (warranty) over the counter. At least thats what their catalog states. Now if you only have one rod, and the slight difference in quality or performance isn't something you demand, the local service can't be beat if you live in Calgary. If afterwards your getting another rod, local service is less important. I did it backwards, and its almost 9 weeks my Sage has been in the mail. Yet its understandable, and not that important since I can go fishing if I want to. Again, I'm not trying to win an argument, or change anyones opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rocknbugs Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 No need to be so defensive there RnB.. he's stating an opinion.. it's not a shot. I'm with Brownstone though.. IMO if you don't have alot of money to spend and you live in Calgary.. TFO is the way to go. I believe his point was that the Sage main office is in Washington.. so if you lived there, and brought it in for a warranty repair, you'd still have pay the $40.. thereby making it no different than TFO/Springbrook. I think alot of people on this thread are mistaking it for "which is the highest quality rod".. when it just said "which is your FAVORITE rod". If I only have ONE rod to use.. and it's the middle of a sweet hatch on the Bow, I certainly do not want to be waiting 3 weeks to get my broken rod back. Of course.. most of the people on here have multiple rods so that's really a non issue... Ah come on Birchy Im not being defensive, Brownstones response to me was full of question marks and tone you can clearly read that. Your right it was not a shot at me, he was telliing anyone who would rather pay 40 to send a Sage than use a TFO because of there WICKED in town warranty that it makes no sense to him. All I did was answer his question marks and now Im the bad guy, come on really! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimD Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Ah come on Birchy Im not being defensive, Brownstones response to me was full of question marks and tone you can clearly read that. Your right it was not a shot at me, he was telliing anyone who would rather pay 40 to send a Sage than use a TFO because of there WICKED in town warranty that it makes no sense to him. All I did was answer his question marks and now Im the bad guy, come on really! I had to wait way to long for the Sage I broke in July. Way too long in fact I called the factory and politely asked if they were serious about fly fishing. That is why I always have a backup rod. I still like the 'it depends' option. A fast rod may be nice for throwing bullets into the wind but it would pretty much suck when trying to drop a 20' cast on one of those slurpers at Stauffer. When I am fishing the Bow, I like a rod with more muscle than the one I use on the Crow or the Ram - way more current and water volume to deal with. Maybe someone could start a poll on asking what type of rod would be best for a particular type of fishing. If I were re-buying my inventory of rods, I would have mad sure they were all 4-piece ones; that way I could have saved buying two rods. Cheers, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimD Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 I had to wait way to long for the Sage I broke in July. Way too long in fact I called the factory and politely asked if they were serious about fly fishing. That is why I always have a backup rod. I still like the 'it depends' option. A fast rod may be nice for throwing bullets into the wind but it would pretty much suck when trying to drop a 20' cast on one of those slurpers at Stauffer. When I am fishing the Bow, I like a rod with more muscle than the one I use on the Crow or the Ram - way more current and water volume to deal with. Maybe someone could start a poll on asking what type of rod would be best for a particular type of fishing. If I were re-buying my inventory of rods, I would have mad sure they were all 4-piece ones; that way I could have saved buying two rods. Cheers, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrown Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Orvis or Sage.. its a toss up for me. Just a few comments on the Sage TCR. First, TCR stands for Technical Casting Rod and it is a very fast action rod. Not designed for the average caster. By stating that in order to cast it you have to increase the line weight by 2 or 3 is just promoting the use of a rod that was not designed for you. Rods are given line weight specifications for a reason, they cast best with that line weight. If when casting the rod you feel as though you have to under or overline, you should look at a different rod with a different action, wheither it be faster or slower. A similar situation occurs when people say that the Sage Launch is a crappy rod because it "casts like a wet noddle." (commentor please take no offence) The Launch is a slow action rod, designed for a caster with a slow casting rhythm. This works well for beginners, because they have slower rhythms as they learn. Often the caster will develope a faster casting rhythm and feel as though the rod is too slow. My point being, the sport has seemed to shift away and ignore a very basic aspect of fly fishing. Before buying a rod look at its action.Choice a rod that compliments your casting rhythm rather than fight with one that is either too fast or too slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigbadbrent Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Rods are given line weight specifications for a reason, they cast best with that line weight. sure about that? (as taken from Sexyloops) The effective rod number tells you what line weight that rod should be working with (aka, the Orvis T3 is between a 5 and a 6, so should be tossing a 5 weight while the TCR is between a 6 and a 7, so should be considered a 6 weight...and these are ALL for what are advertised as 5 weight rods.. hell, ask the resident rod builder on the forum (Don), and he'll tell you nearly all manufacturers understate their line weights http://www.sexyloops.com/articles/8rod.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Funny, I fished with one for a day and really liked it but I will say it's not a very forgiving rod....tight compact very quick power stroke and double haul every time. I want one for pitchin' hoppers into a SW Ab breeze (Pincher Creek Style) BTW... who says you can't toss line with a broomstick? Click here if the movie does not play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 No hell that is the TCR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimD Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Taco, I think his cast is a little wristy - but the haul seemed well-timed. Bigbrown, I hear people saying that a slow rod is for 'beginners' and I also hear that bamboo is the ultimate rod. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't bamboo one of the 'slowest' materials out there? I think that the 'fast rod is for experts' is just some type of marketing propaganda. Besides I think that there is a tradeoff between rod speed and control - most experts would want control. Regards, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclebuck Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 That broomstick has some fast action! Must be expensive... mmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigbadbrent Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Taco, I think his cast is a little wristy - but the haul seemed well-timed. Bigbrown, I hear people saying that a slow rod is for 'beginners' and I also hear that bamboo is the ultimate rod. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't bamboo one of the 'slowest' materials out there? I think that the 'fast rod is for experts' is just some type of marketing propaganda. Besides I think that there is a tradeoff between rod speed and control - most experts would want control. Regards, Tim Rod speed adds distance, and the faster the rod the faster the rod speed, most experts would use what ever their situation calls for....Rods are all dependent on their situation, my 4 weight is pretty slow, but i fish the bow with it all the time, but don't enjoy doing it compared to nymphing say the highwood with it. I'd love a bamboo, more with the fact just so i could fish with a bamboo on the tiniest streams...and of course, to brag about having a boo rod, but i don't have 2 grand laying around for a stick...gotta go do a bunch of walking around to garage sales and see if i can find one that some old timer's sellin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimD Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Rod speed adds distance, and the faster the rod the faster the rod speed, most experts would use what ever their situation calls for....Rods are all dependent on their situation, my 4 weight is pretty slow, but i fish the bow with it all the time, but don't enjoy doing it compared to nymphing say the highwood with it. I'd love a bamboo, more with the fact just so i could fish with a bamboo on the tiniest streams...and of course, to brag about having a boo rod, but i don't have 2 grand laying around for a stick...gotta go do a bunch of walking around to garage sales and see if i can find one that some old timer's sellin Bigbadbrent, Rod speed is needed for distance, but casting distance really tied to arm speed and the speed of the rod tip when it unloads. Imagine our friend with the broomstick, the maximum velocity of the line is related to how fast the angler moves their arm and the length of the broomstick (rod). Slow arm speed equals shorter casts. The difference between a broomstick and a fly rod is that the rod (when compared to a broomstick) actually moves slower as it loads and faster when it unloads. A fast rod is only faster than a slow rod when it is loaded, if the caster cannot load the rod it is no different than casting a broomstick. Some anglers think that getting a faster rod automatically means longer casts and that would be true only if they change their casting style somewhat. I find that when I am using one of my fast rods, I really have to accelerate the cast (move my arm very fast) , sometimes even using a haul on the pickup to load the rod and then do same thing on the forward cast in order to cast properly. That is fine when I am casting 60-80' but when casting 30-40', I have to accelerate the same way to load and then decelerate so I can get a nice presentation. Regards, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hydropsyche Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I'd love a bamboo, more with the fact just so i could fish with a bamboo on the tiniest streams...and of course, to brag about having a boo rod, but i don't have 2 grand laying around for a stick...gotta go do a bunch of walking around to garage sales and see if i can find one that some old timer's sellin Less then then your new Sage. Boo Rod - Cheap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Actually TimD, depending on maker, taper, design, length and weight you can pretty much get whatever action you want out of a bamboo rod. just like graphite or fiberglass. And why the hell isn't orvis on the list? zero gravity rods are at least on par with the Z axis (which people have noted), and they've outdone themselves again with a new line of rods that are (again) the lightest on the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonAndersen Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Boo rod - made in China - don't lick the finish - may contain lead. Cost of parts for a decent bamboo rod runs me about $250.00 Cabella's markup about 40% of $549 is $220.00 leaving $329 for manufacturer. 329-250= $ 79 for labor. Time it takes me to build a rod <> 70 hours. Wage is about $1.00/hr. Hell, I can compete!!! catch ya' Don And I get a real chuckle outta the comments about bamboo rods. You cast one - you cast them all. Ya' right. Drove a truck once - guess I drove them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hydropsyche Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Boo rod - made in China - don't lick the finish - may contain lead. No doubt handcrafted Boo's are far better. Don, before the days of glass rods, all of them were Boo and not out of the price range of the average angler. How did they do it back then? Or was $20 back then equal to $1000 today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonAndersen Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Hydropsyche, Decent rods varied about a five times multiple. The lower priced rods were about $10.00 whereas the top of the line were $40. Things haven't changed much now - TF @ $250>Sage near $1000. Sage Launch about $175>TRC @ $750 The cost of parts is one big issue. A good guide is $1.45 ea. A poor guide $0.10 with a decent quality about $.39. Good corks $1/ring > scabby corks $0.10/ring. Reel seats from $4>100. The cost of constructing a graphite blank is about the same for parts. Labor - well depends where you shop. From a 1949 Wright & McGill Co. catalogue comes: Granger Registered @ $100 Granger Premier @ 75 Granger Deluxe @ $60 Granger Favorite @ $50 Granger Aristocrat @ $40 Granger Special @ $30 Granger Victory @ 25 Granger Stream and Lake @ $20 All the above Granger appeared to be similar except for the Victory & Lake/Stream Model that used a fiber rod tube rather than Aluminum. regards, Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hydropsyche Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I bet those Granger Registered's are a prize today. Thanks for the history lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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