Open Letter (Not From Me)

[lad]

I personally hope that ATV's are banned on the Eastern Slopes for able bodied users.

 

Aside from that many also believe no one does more damage to an environmental cause than the fellow being discussed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

An Open Letter to the Crowsnest Journal FB page :

There are hundreds of thousands of OHV users in Southern Alberta and over 1.5 million ATV's registered in all of Alberta. You are one little person with an aggressive agenda hidden behind a facade of long hair and pseudo-science.

Your free little page here on FB, and what is written on it, is often found repugnant by many decent, considerate people in both the conservation and OHV camps.

The fact you haven't held a job for 3 decades speaks loudly of your reliance on others to support you; the same way you rely on a certain personality type to support your page. Most of the cocky little comments and replies you've made on this post and many others also prove your outright agenda to misrepresent the facts in order to facilitate your need for recognition.

In fact, your narcissism only exacerbates the real issue here: you.

YOU are a detriment to the watershed you so covetously proclaim to be warden over. Your undermining of a common belief held by the majority of wilderness users, that all groups deserve recognition and the opportunity to experience the wilderness however they most wish to, and not to be the recipients of the derision and finger pointing you so absolutely excel in, will cause further distrust of you.

I mean, why be more open about their legal and thoughtful pursuits on the Eastern Slopes when they have you and your fb shaming tactics to contend with?

I've spent enough time reading your posts on your horse and pony page and laughing at mean little tantrums, laughable attempts at journalism and a childlike persona. I won't spend any more though. You've proven again..and again....that my valuable time will be much better spent in assisting citizens who passionately care about their pastime, other people AND the environmental protection process.

I encourage all OHV users to do the same. Ignore him long enough and maybe he'll go away? Not likely I know. But if you stop feeding him, perhaps he'll starve.

I learned something very important today. No, not on that FB page. It was at an event....an important one for all ecologically inclined people of our area. I learned that one person, no matter how unbalanced and out-spoken, will never make a difference in the big picture. What will though, are the positive, impactful public displays and communiqués which are so well received by the general public and will continue to gain headway and popularity.

 

[bcubed]

opportunity to experience the wilderness however they most wish to

. Sure, i'll agree with that, as long as it's not negatively affecting watersheds, water quality, and generally extremely low impact users (e.g., hikers, fishers, etc).

why be more open about their legal and thoughtful pursuits on the Eastern Slopes

The ones that actually do it legally are not the problem, and unfortunately are going to get stuck into the same camps as the bad apples. However, if a small group of people weren't causing a disproportionate amount of damage to the environment, I can bet that people would care a whole lot less.

[jpinkster]

I know the guy who operates the Crowsnest Journal page pretty well. His love for our headwaters is undeniable, and I applaud all of the hard work that he is doing. While we don't necessarily agree on everything (which is incredibly healthy btw), I believe the work that he is doing is very necessary. If the OHV community is this angry with him, that likely means he is being effective. Far too many of the advocates for responsible OHV use are a whole lot of talk without any real action. I look forward to the OHV community coming to terms with the fact that a compromise will need to be made in the best interests of the land.

[BurningChrome]

If the OHV community is this angry with him, that likely means he is being effective. Far too many of the advocates for responsible OHV use are a whole lot of talk without any real action. I look forward to the OHV community coming to terms with the fact that a compromise will need to be made in the best interests of the land.

I don't think the OHV community is angry with him, I think that some of the irresponsible OHV users are angry with him. Lumping those folks in with all OHV users is equivalent to lumping poachers in with the fishing community as a whole.

 

The advocates for responsible OHV use have been asking the province to implement user fees that would go back into education, enforcement, sustainable trails, bridges, etc. for a number of years but the province (both the previous political party and the current one) have ignored this. The current access management plan only allows for the use of existing linear disturbances (ie. decommissioned logging and mining roads and seismic lines) regardless of how poorly planned they are/were with no allowance for the creation of new trails. The access management plan needs to be changed to allow AEP to create new trails that are sustainable and in less sensitive areas - if you build it, they will come. Where the OHV community gets worried is that the access management plan only allows AEP to say that a trail is open or closed - it is purely binary. They are worried that trails will simply be closed with no new trails to take their place. If you push people into a corner they tend to get very defensive or go on the offensive.

 

A Facebook page, internet forum, etc. are terrible places to have valuable discussion because people become keyboard commandos (aka internet tough guys) and often say things they'd never say to someone's face (this goes for both sides of a debate). Again, when people see nothing but one article after another about how they are the most terrible people in the world even the responsible ones will start to feel backed into a corner and lash out. I would say that what the Oldman Watershed Council has been doing is the best approach I've seen to date:

http://oldmanwatershed.ca/blog-posts/2016/5/25/may-long-weekend-outreach-activities

 

Talk to people like they're fellow human beings and bring them around to your point of view. Stop polarizing people on both sides of the issue as this will help no one (see current US election news for an excellent example of the ill effects of polarizing issues). Often (no, not always) when you talk to people in person (not on the interwebs) in a reasonable way you will realize that they too are reasonable.

[jpinkster]

Stop polarizing people on both sides of the issue as this will help no one (see current US election news for an excellent example of the ill effects of polarizing issues).

 

So don't go full Fildebrandt?

[bcubed]

I would say that what the Oldman Watershed Council has been doing is the best approach I've seen to date:

http://oldmanwatershed.ca/blog-posts/2016/5/25/may-long-weekend-outreach-activities

 

Talk to people like they're fellow human beings and bring them around to your point of view. Stop polarizing people on both sides of the issue as this will help no one (see current US election news for an excellent example of the ill effects of polarizing issues). Often (no, not always) when you talk to people in person (not on the interwebs) in a reasonable way you will realize that they too are reasonable.

 

Was gonna mention this after you shared it. Hopefully it has an impact. Definitely a more facilitating approach then bashing away at the keyboard

[BurningChrome]

Was gonna mention this after you shared it. Hopefully it has an impact. Definitely a more facilitating approach then bashing away at the keyboard

Yeah I think it's still fairly new and small so it would be nice to see the program expand and more groups in other watersheds adopt it. I already know that the head of the Ghost Watershed Alliance has seen the article and I'd love to see them and Elbow River Watershed Partnership explore something similar for Waiparous and McLean since those are two other heavily trafficked offroad areas.

[lad]

I know the guy who operates the Crowsnest Journal page pretty well. His love for our headwaters is undeniable, and I applaud all of the hard work that he is doing. While we don't necessarily agree on everything (which is incredibly healthy btw), I believe the work that he is doing is very necessary. If the OHV community is this angry with him, that likely means he is being effective. Far too many of the advocates for responsible OHV use are a whole lot of talk without any real action. I look forward to the OHV community coming to terms with the fact that a compromise will need to be made in the

I would bet the writer knows Kevin or winston much better......

[TMLhammy]

@Lad - Could you shed some light on to the reason this was posted anonymously? OR was it not and the name just wasn't included.

 

Secondly; it's purpose, there are several threads open on multiple forums on this exact topic, not to mention the individuals FB page. This sounds like a personal vendetta. Please don't turn this place into AO.

 

Thirdly do you know much about the authors plan for action? Like him or not (the guy being slandered) he is out there, boots to ground doing something. As others mentioned above; we'd be willing to listen to the authors ideas but he doesn't offer any, just anger.

 

Can you please clarify for this.

[BurningChrome]

So don't go full Fildebrandt?

Definitely not. Look, I think Kevin does some good work and brings some issues to light that would otherwise go unnoticed. I also know that he is an ATV rider but wants to see irresponsible use stop and for that I applaud him. BUT, the point you made before about talk and no action I think can also be applied to the Crowsnest Journal page. If you look at the post that I suspect spawned the letter that started this thread, it's nothing but back and forth circular arguments that I doubt have swayed anyone's opinions and instead have further polarized (or pulverized to borrow from Hank Patterson) them. This is where I think the OWC project is superior because they're actually getting people to go out and interact with other backcountry users in more meaningful ways.

 

I know from experience out on the trails that when we saw a couple of side-by-sides driving up and down the Elbow just above the falls and one of our group yelled at them, they just flipped us the bird in response. When we saw others driving through Meadow creek even though there was a bridge right there and talked to them reasonably it resulted in a discussion about fish and how silt can smother eggs and all that. I'm pretty sure in the first instance the interaction didn't cause those users to change their behaviour at all, but in the second instance there's a much higher chance - though not a guarantee - that they did.

[lad]

@Lad - Could you shed some light on to the reason this was posted anonymously? OR was it not and the name just wasn't included.

 

Secondly; it's purpose, there are several threads open on multiple forums on this exact topic, not to mention the individuals FB page. This sounds like a personal vendetta. Please don't turn this place into AO.

 

Thirdly do you know much about the authors plan for action? Like him or not (the guy being slandered) he is out there, boots to ground doing something. As others mentioned above; we'd be willing to listen to the authors ideas but he doesn't offer any, just anger.

 

Can you please clarify for this.

Was not posted anonymously. There may be several threads with this exact topic but coming from a different angle.

[TMLhammy]

@Lad - could ya post the author or let me know where to find it so I can read some of his work/opinions, in order to form my own. Also, any word on his plan for action?

[DonAndersen]

I just don't get it. A guy points out the abuse of quads and he's seen as the enemy.

The Oldman Education group posts an ugly picture of land abuse and they are lauded.

Damn, the world is one screwed up place.

 

Don

[albertatrout]

I just don't get it. A guy points out the abuse of quads and he's seen as the enemy.

The Oldman Education group posts an ugly picture of land abuse and they are lauded.

Damn, the world is one screwed up place.

 

Don

 

I don't think it's the one post about quads thats led to frustrations, it's months of spamming facebook pages with sometimes informative but at other times misleading articles. He doesn't do well with criticism and often resorts to very immature replies to those the journal disagrees with. He has a right to free speech but should also expect feedback. Many articles are the result of someone with no biology background making some very weak arguments, others are well done. I hope he can improve his content/ knowledge in time but for now it's not a very positive/ productive way to approach many issues. I followed him early on but grew tired of the pages tone. Maybe give him another chance in a year or two. The journal also follows some pretty radical other pages I would not associate with, there's more to the feedback he is getting than one post a few people shared. I say the initial post is still not appropriate, no reason to bring his personal life into it, just the journals content should be fair game.

[DonAndersen]

Whether or not all his stuff suits your particular view point is immaterial. He's putting a face to ugly abuses of our trout streams. Nobody else is doing it in a public way.

So what if he get carried away occasionally. At Least, unlike many, he is attempting to get change.

Now if the rest of us "concerned citizens" would develop some balls, maybe the stuff he posts would not occur.

Nope, we're all mind ****ed because he doesn't do it or say it quite correctly.

Like I said, the world is a strange place.

 

Don

[DonAndersen]

Ever consider that this thread would not have existed if the previous gpvrs had dealt with the abuse years ago.

And the ugly part, some want a return to the same or lower level of idiocy.

 

Don

[WinstonConfluentus]

A strange place indeed. Thanks, Don. This is libelous hate speak pure and simple. Unbiased, real-time reporting of issues in the headwaters has brought many to the conversation; some behave as adults, some do not. Far more positive commentary was made on the viral post than negative and as far as I can tell, it's the first time both "sides" engaged each other openly in fact-based discussion. Not all of the discussions were great, but at least they were had. Progress.

 

I believe the current level of damage and degradation in the Oldman headwaters to be beyond the comprehension of any reasonable person. Lack within governments and all those tasked with land management find us where we are today. Cognitive dissonance within user groups, including the angling community, has also played a role. Plainly said, folks fear change; especially those with a dog in the fight.

 

Regarding the veracity of my work, as mentioned I make mistakes. I work across many disciplines and at times the jargon can be difficult to keep up to. If there's a factual or contextual error on the page, I hope it gets pointed out so I can correct it. I'm ever grateful to the many professionals who have lent their knowledge and experience to insure accurate reporting of the facts. "We" can do this, not I.

 

I must say I'm surprised by some of the folks who have supported this latest online smear campaign; it's pretty transparent. Perhaps they have the same kind of dog?