Back Country User System, Could This Work?

[billie]

I've been mulling this over.

 

Suppose..........(numbers are arbitrary for reference only).

 

A $200 yearly fee for a personal pass to use the back country, ALL activities. $500 for a family.

Credits could be earned by working at $25/hr (one full day's work per person) toward your pass.

 

If you don't want to pay, you work it off.

If you don't have the time, you can just pay the fee.

 

Credits for your work could be earned on your WIN card/number when collected and documented by recognized clubs, or even professional groups, building trails, bridges, cleaning up sites, whatever is needed. Fees collected STAY in the system to purchase needed supplies and materials. Recognized groups could apply for funding from the pool. It seems the ABRelm should be able to handle the administration.

 

Extra credits could be sold/transferred to others by those who earn them (if they want to).

 

Working to clean/fix/build stuff would be educational, no?. Could we end up with a new seasonal industry? Would the back country become managed for the ever increasing pressure? A managed trail system, random camping under control, more effective enforcement, sensitive areas protected, extensive educational signage?

 

A day or weekly pass could also be arranged in a similar fashion for infrequent users.

 

Maybe a pipe dream, but could it work?

 

What do they do in the managed areas of the US?

 

[Sean84]

This is one of the most ridiculous ideas Ive ever read. You want people to pay to go outdoors. They already have this for the national parks. You must be really young or rich and havent gotten fed up with the user fees and taxes on everything already to suggest a fee for me to walk out my backdoor.

[tika]

Nope.

[bigalcal]

User fee for random camping? Yes....

[Weedy1]

Wonderful idea for those that destroy our back country with OHV's and by other means, otherwise ridiculous, I pay my taxes.

[Jayhad]

I don't golf because I don't pay to go outside.... this seams similar

[billie]

Young?..........no.

Rich?..........no, not that either.

Taxes, yes we all pay taxes. I guess that sounds like accepting the status quo, and from what I've seen, that isn't working very well. How do we deal with the ever increasing number of users in a fair and balanced way, while maintaining sustainability and not restricting any one group?

 

"Ridiculous" wasn't the discussion I was hoping for, but I respect the viewpoint. Thinking "outside the box" was the motivation for the thread.

 

Focusing on the $ value is missing the point, and paying a fee should be a last resort (I was trying to make that point in the first line with the "reference" comment). The primary motivation is contribution. Personal contribution/commitment creates ownership. Ownership creates respect and pride. "Free" fosters exploitation and it is quite evident in many places. Sad, but true, and of course, not by all.

 

Maybe not all areas need to be included, only problem areas. If you use them, give something back. There are thousands of ways to donate an hour or 2, here and there. Build picnic tables in town, stain the benches, deliver and place them. Attend a scouting crew for new trails, team up to create the trail proposal documentation to the government, build the trails. Take pictures of a mess, clean it up and submit for credit. Be deputized and patrol a remote area for F&W violations. All the stuff we would like to see done but don't get done due mostly the lack of "taxes" no one wants to pay.

 

Many of us do this anyway. The dollar value is simply an option for those who can't, or don't want to, provide hands on contributions. Some would do lots and allowing them to donate their excess credits (or sell) to others would be an option available to them. Corporate donations could be made and directed right to the resource.

 

The point was a self-sustaining cottage industry. Fees and fines returned and funds held accountable and used for the backcountry, NOT general government revenue. A job board could list activities relative to date, organization and credit value. Some jobs would be ongoing, some would be one-time tasks. Sign up for one and do it when you're out camping anyway.

 

Would this "contributing community" foster a higher level of respect in the long run?

 

Anyway, it was just a thought. Thanks for coming out .

[Guest bigdirty]

Work program for people in remand. They can clean up our *hit out there

[Weedy1]

Work program for people in remand. They can clean up our *hit out there

 

 

Yes punish those awaiting trial. That way we can have our back country full of child rapists and murderers, unconvicted of course. We know they're all guilty anyways.

[Ricinus]

There are lots of laws regarding backcountry usage.. The problem is lack of enforcement..

 

Mike

[Jayhad]

Young?..........no.

Rich?..........no, not that either.

Taxes, yes we all pay taxes. I guess that sounds like accepting the status quo, and from what I've seen, that isn't working very well. How do we deal with the ever increasing number of users in a fair and balanced way, while maintaining sustainability and not restricting any one group?

 

"Ridiculous" wasn't the discussion I was hoping for, but I respect the viewpoint. Thinking "outside the box" was the motivation for the thread.

 

Focusing on the $ value is missing the point, and paying a fee should be a last resort (I was trying to make that point in the first line with the "reference" comment). The primary motivation is contribution. Personal contribution/commitment creates ownership. Ownership creates respect and pride. "Free" fosters exploitation and it is quite evident in many places. Sad, but true, and of course, not by all.

 

Maybe not all areas need to be included, only problem areas. If you use them, give something back. There are thousands of ways to donate an hour or 2, here and there. Build picnic tables in town, stain the benches, deliver and place them. Attend a scouting crew for new trails, team up to create the trail proposal documentation to the government, build the trails. Take pictures of a mess, clean it up and submit for credit. Be deputized and patrol a remote area for F&W violations. All the stuff we would like to see done but don't get done due mostly the lack of "taxes" no one wants to pay.

 

Many of us do this anyway. The dollar value is simply an option for those who can't, or don't want to, provide hands on contributions. Some would do lots and allowing them to donate their excess credits (or sell) to others would be an option available to them. Corporate donations could be made and directed right to the resource.

 

The point was a self-sustaining cottage industry. Fees and fines returned and funds held accountable and used for the backcountry, NOT general government revenue. A job board could list activities relative to date, organization and credit value. Some jobs would be ongoing, some would be one-time tasks. Sign up for one and do it when you're out camping anyway.

 

Would this "contributing community" foster a higher level of respect in the long run?

 

Anyway, it was just a thought. Thanks for coming out .

This is the most ridiculous thread ever, how entitled are you that you think you can ban citizens from using the land that rightfully belongs to the citizenry.

 

So single parent that works two jobs in this province to keep food on the table is no longer allowed in the bush?

 

Your answer is well he/she can't afford the user fee or the time to volunteer so they can stay in the concrete jungle.

 

This is no different than anglers rallying against rafters or jet boats because it ruins MY day of fishing.

 

This has nothing to due with the lack of taxes no one wants to pay, this province has had days of far more than enough money to protect the environment.

[northfork]

Yes punish those awaiting trial. That way we can have our back country full of child rapists and murderers, unconvicted of course. We know they're all guilty anyways.

The Nordegg backcountry was full of child rapists and murderers, convicted and unconvicted, for many many years...

 

 

There are lots of laws regarding backcountry usage.. The problem is lack of enforcement..

 

Mike

 

Bingo.

[billie]

This is the most ridiculous thread ever, how entitled are you that you think you can ban citizens from using the land that rightfully belongs to the citizenry.

 

So single parent that works two jobs in this province to keep food on the table is no longer allowed in the bush?

 

Your answer is well he/she can't afford the user fee or the time to volunteer so they can stay in the concrete jungle.

 

This is no different than anglers rallying against rafters or jet boats because it ruins MY day of fishing.

 

This has nothing to due with the lack of taxes no one wants to pay, this province has had days of far more than enough money to protect the environment.

Never thought of it as entitled, not had any intent to limit anyone. I had hoped for some ideas for the situations I see.

 

And you make a good point, although the vitriol isn't really necessary. A simple statement that it would be unfair to some groups would have sufficed. Seniors also, but simple concessions could be made.

[Weedy1]

Thinking "outside the box" was the motivation for the thread.

 

 

How about any excessive garbage or destruction of the land results in the closing of the backcountry area for 6 months and fines of $100000 to the culprits.

[DonAndersen]

Billie,

 

Don't let the naysayers stop ya'!

It is a good idea. User pays. Hell of a concept.

Maybe the Welfare Cowboys will pay for clean up.

 

Don

[billie]

How about any excessive garbage or destruction of the land results in the closing of the backcountry area for 6 months and fines of $100000 to the culprits.

Maybe a bit excessive, but emotionally accurate . The down side is the 6 months, that penalizes the innocent.

 

Billie,

 

Don't let the naysayers stop ya'!

It is a good idea. User pays. Hell of a concept.

Maybe the Welfare Cowboys will pay for clean up.

 

Don

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but a discussion should help build, and not just tear down. Maybe this is just a "ridiculous" idea.

 

I believe there is value in a user pay system (the focus of this suggestion is not intended to be monetary, but I recognize that "time" IS money). For example, (although maybe not a very good one), I don't want my taxes going to pet urban initiatives, and I don't expect urban people to pay for back country improvements if they don't use them.

 

I see it like the mandatory head submission for CWD. I don't hunt those areas but I expect that if you do not submit (as being mandatory) you would be fined. Also, I expect this has a high compliance rate since it is good for the resource. Giving back is GOOD for the resource.

 

So many things could be accomplished concurrent with your activities in the back country. They could be a great reason for people and families to get out of the house, rather than restrict their use of the outdoors.

A researcher could have a team of participants counting redds with him.

A logging operation could be monitored (by quad if you like) for compliance and a formal official could investigate suspect infractions observed by the public.

A maintained trail system that the users proudly protect and enforce their use.

Excessive random camping could be monitored more effectively.

More eyes and ears working toward enforcement, which is commonly cited as anemic

Monetary donations would be channeled directly to the resource.

The "Stewardship" brook trout harvest is a good example of what can be accomplished.

Thousands of possibilities.

 

Everyone can help. I was collecting and submitting water samples to the government when I was 9 years old (with Mom's helping to mail the samples, but it was my job). The educational opportunities are immense, for all ages.

The single Mom could send her kids to help (age appropriate) even if she had to work. There might even be transportation provided.

Hopefully the involvement and "ownership" would be contagious, resulting in a much more positive attitude to the resource. There could be pride and bragging-rights about the personal contributions. A high credit score would be something to be proud of. Extra credits could be donated to charities or similar groups.

 

I think the key is a notification system for the "job" postings. And a "free" labour pool to the people that need it, to maintain our natural gifts.

A self supporting industry for the good of the land.

 

But, as where I started, likely just a pipe dream.

Tks for indulging my thoughts.