monger Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Crucian carp in the irrigation system downstream of Chestermere....leaking to the Red Deer river http://aquality.ca/uploads/news/id102/Aqua...Survey_2009.pdf Apparently Fish and Wildlife isn't too concerned. It's not like carp can reproduce at a good rate or anything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGK Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 420FLYFISHIN Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 what are the chances of them making it into the RD? hopefully they all freeze out over the winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sundancefisher Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 what are the chances of them making it into the RD? hopefully they all freeze out over the winter. They have been caught in the Red Deer by F&W...not many yet but if they keep flooding into the Red Deer from the Rosebud Creek System then it is only a matter of time. Highly prolific breeders...they will out compete native species...eat their eggs...root out vegetation...increase bank erosion... Rumors are they have been in the Rosebud for 10 years. Facts to date that we can find on line say since 2008...they were caught (adults and lots so likely earlier initial release). First time heard about it myself. F&W have know since at lease 2008. Current plans...I believe sampling in the area...but it did not seem like it was in response to this invasive species release...just a species inventory. I have heard of no plan (and we collectively need to ask) and these fish are not in the invasive species list but they are here and in numbers and likely growing exponentially in numbers. Is anyone going to ask whether they can make it up the South Saskatchwen? Bow? Oldman? What are the likelihood of them being caught below the Carsland Weir and get released upstream by some well meaning kids? How long until the Bow is polluted with Carp. How long until the Carp are in Threepoint, Ware, Pekisko rooting up the gravel and eating the eggs? Just a good time for all sportsmen in Alberta. Overly concerned...I wonder how many sportsmen said the same thing about the carp in the Mississippi. The Great Lakes canals are currently ground zero in a last ditch fight to the death to save the great lakes from this Carp invader. Ask yourself what Alberta is doing...what action has been taken place...what our plan is when these incidents are uncovered...??? Can we all say a collective Yippee? Too bad we can't all personally thank the nice folk that released these carp into Alberta! http://aquality.ca/uploads/news/id102/Aqua...Survey_2009.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGK Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 420FLYFISHIN Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 oh SNAP! good call PGK. I might have to try and get a line into the rosebud for some carp! i hear they fight like hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monger Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Perch were introduced to Sundance, they are not a natural population. Therefore, their attempted removal doesn't upset the wild population. Introduced carp might have a major impact on the native species in the Red Deer River. I thought your concern over native stocks might have elicited a different response. Thanks for slinging mud as usual though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGK Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monger Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 You are right...no money or manpower will probably result in no action from the government. It sounds like the impoundment with a good carp population is on private land. It will be interesting to see if the landowner will let anyone on his land to disturb his unique fishery. I agree with you, fish Bios are in a tough spot in this province. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sundancefisher Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 What's the difference between carp in a ditch and you fostering a sludge pond full of non native rainbows at the cost of native perch? Nothing. Just some flawed view of value placed on an ethically defunct notion of what a 'sportsfish' is. Hypocrite. Not sure what has you worked up on such a topic. A man made lake with no inlet nor outlet with a permit to stock rainbow trout does not seem to be comparable with the release of an aggressively reproducing population of non native Carp into a large watershed such as the Saskatchewan River with major Tributaries being the North Saskatchewan River along with the Battle River, South Saskatchewan River along with the Bow, Oldman River and Red Deer River including all lakes feeding these. Taking about the fate of goldeye, mooneye, walleye, sauger, sturgeon and all the native minnows and suckers...then there is the brown trout fishery below the Dickson Dam and Rainbow and Brown fisheries of the Bow. Being as the Carp are now in the whole Rosebud Creek tributary of the Red Deer and a few individuals caught in the Red Deer River itself...I am hopeful you can see the difference and that your linking to two separate issues above... may of been premature. Being concerned with the removal of stunted illegally introduced perch into a man made put and take trout fishery...ignores the issues and focuses your comments on a personal level which rarely does anything but cause a battle were none was needed nor intended. You seem concerned with native species in native waters...which is admirable... Who knows...maybe you are right and any proactive stance on invasive species in Alberta all comes down to money. As for apathy amongst anglers...I am not sure how many people have concerns. Not many posting concerns. Not sure if anyone has contacted F&W to ask what the plan was/is. My vote is for an "Invasive Species Task Force" and a clearly defined mandate and operational protocol. Who knows...this one may be too late...but the next one will guaranteed be coming soon enough. Especially if nothing happened here to those responsible. Thanks Sun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingshooter Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 These fish have arrived in the Red Deer system as far upstream now as the mouth of the Medicine River. In fact they have been found in breeding populations in Tindastoll Creek 15 km up the Medicine. It takes alot to kill them as they can almost live out of water. On the bright side pike would love them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGK Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailhead Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Yep PGK, Alberta sucks and everyone in Alberta is an idiot that knows nothing about anything, it's a wonder we are still alive. You on the other hand know everything about everything, it's a wonder your head doesn't explode with the huge volume of information that you possess. I'll bet you want us to bow down to your superior intellect. perhaps you should change your handle to GOD! Or better yet THE CANADIAN KNOW-IT-ALL however I will always consider you a doofus. With a capital DOO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGK Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troutlover Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 So ahhhhh Big Gulps.............welp see ya later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 420FLYFISHIN Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I dont get this, i agree with PKG but i dnt understand why everyone is attacking him. He made a point that a stocked pond with pig rainbows gets a different look than small native perch. We only like these species becuase they are larger and more fun. I see no problem pulling browns and bows, CARP of their redds when fishing but not bulls, cutts,...It is all about what you accept and what you dont. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sundancefisher Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I was calling you a hypocrite. My comment was personal. And I'd hazard a fairly safe bet that my knowledge of species biology in the area of concern far outweighs yours so you can take your sanctimonious horse crap and eat it for dinner for all I care. Good luck to anyone trying to get rid of them. Just another example in a long list of alien species introductions in alberta that nobody will ever do anything about. LOL You have not learned from your reputation on any of the boards you frequent. For someone that comes across thinking you're some superior intellect...clearly you have not taken classes in behavoir...or else failed "Being Personable 101" and are miserable for it. Suggested courses for you on the following topics... "Compassion, respectfulness, empathy, honesty and love, being happy, sense of humor, kindness, gentleness, appreciating nature. Relating to others in a healthy manner, having faith, peace and joy. Open-mindedness, enjoying learning and respecting what you know and help others. Friendliness and sustaining long-lasting and healthy relationships with everyone. The ability to control anger in a healthy manner, knowing how to converse, knowing your limits and meeting your own expectations, high self esteem, ability to smile, knowing yourself and loving yourself so you are able to love others, courage, serenity, honor, integrity..." Seems like you are unhappy. So much so that you don't care to either understand the topic, nor discuss it like an adult, nor even understand the background of those you strive to spar with. Sparing online for the sake of sparing is a sign of loneliness. Your knowledge of Lake Sundance is clearly exceptional to the point of awe inspiring. Your bitterness towards Alberta...is over the top obviously...but so happy you love it enough to still frequent fishing blogs. For all you think you know...since nobody will be your friend and will get close enough to educate you...I would be frustrated as well if I were you. Cheers and Don't Worry...Be Happy. Don't be sad. Still you are sure to want to post that you don't care what anyone else thinks yet you continue to come to message board to attack...someone needs a BIG, BIG hug I think. Sun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGK Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troutlover Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I don't get it what are the pitch forks for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vhawk12 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I dont get this, i agree with PKG but i dnt understand why everyone is attacking him. He made a point that a stocked pond with pig rainbows gets a different look than small native perch. We only like these species becuase they are larger and more fun. I see no problem pulling browns and bows, CARP of their redds when fishing but not bulls, cutts,...It is all about what you accept and what you dont. Yeah, maybe valid points, but it's comparing apples to oranges when you consider the Rainbows in PGK's example are in a "Closed System" and the Carp are in an "Open System". It doesn't take any knowledge of 'Species Biology', 'open' and 'closed' systems are taught in 8th Grade science class. How about the problems the US is having with Asian Carp? Have you ever heard anyone talk about Rainbows and Browns as a threat equivalent to Asian Carp? If not, then why not? Just because we like to fish for all species of trout? I don't think so, that may be part of it, but I don't think that any introduced species of trout has posed as big of a threat as Carp. If you were to talk about the introduction of non-native species of trout in the early 1900s, then you may have a point, but how much of a conservation effort was there then? Have these introduced species completely decimated native species as Carp would? I don't believe I've responded to PGK's comments before, but I've read them on other topics. I'm not going to speak to his intellect, but I believe that truely intelligent people are those that form opinions based on factual information and can respect others that have opposing views. They can participate in mature, respectful conversation/debate both in person or online without attacking someone personally. In my experience, anyone that has to tell someone else that their knowledge on a topic is superior is not usually as much of an expert as they think they are. PGK is a pot-stirrer, and as evidenced by this board, an effective one. The best way to deal with those guys is to ignore them, eventually they will go away when they no longer get a rise out of anyone. I'm assuming that I'll never run into him on the river, so why waste precious minutes of your life dealing with him on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sundancefisher Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 No, actually I just don't like you and I dislike apathy even more. No need to get overanalytical. My life is just fine thanks. If you're such a great mind and conservationist, get a seine net some pool chlorine and some pitchforks and go clean those fish out. It might garner you a shred of respect. LOL Goes back to your credibiliy in any subject when you can not discuss issues like an adult and prefer to throw insults around like in grade 1. You have neither met me nor know me nor understand my education, employment or volunteer background yet you make jump in and make incorrect assumptions based upon simple biological issues you are not even remotely involved in. You actually prove based upon your comments today that you know absolutety nothing about the lake down here nor chose to. You live in a different world devoid of friendly discussion and prefer to throw personal insults. Should you chose to grow up I will turn the other cheek, accept your apology and move on to talking above improving fishing in Alberta rather than improving your ability to play with others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 420FLYFISHIN Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Great post Vhawlk!! SDF - i think you are just as closed minded as what you are badgering about but on the different side of the fence thats all. I have seen some assinine post of your bahalf of the ODForum ie. your post of pot related issues....but lets not get into that here. lets all agree that we hate carp and should fish them out with barbed treble hooks, if we chuck them over our sholders then the wolf, yotes, and bears can get a bit bigger so they can eat more beavers and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGK Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sundancefisher Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Great post Vhawlk!! SDF - i think you are just as closed minded as what you are badgering about but on the different side of the fence thats all. I have seen some assinine post of your bahalf of the ODForum ie. your post of pot related issues....but lets not get into that here. lets all agree that we hate carp and should fish them out with barbed treble hooks, if we chuck them over our sholders then the wolf, yotes, and bears can get a bit bigger so they can eat more beavers and so on. :-) The pot issue was a fun debate but I agree...not worth going there. Debating upon protecting our rivers from invasive species...I take seriously. Vhawlk did post a sound insight. We agree...carp bad...trout good. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 420FLYFISHIN Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 but think of the bow if it were still fill of cutts and bulls in calgary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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