Todays Debate

[Pipestoneflyguy]

Not sure its fair to have him on the team - I knda think he had his chance already

 

Story

[bhurt]

Personally I think anyone who is convicted of any type of crime should not be allowed to play in amature or professional sports.

 

The reason why I say this is because alot of times you have young children who idolise these people and basically you are saying you can do a crime pay the price and come back like there was nothing wrong.

 

What type of rolemodels do we want to give to our children?

[Guest Sundancefisher]

 

I feel I have as tough an opinion on treating criminals as anyone. I believe in capital punishment for violent acts against women and children and first degree murder.

 

At the same time I realize as a society our rules are such that if found guilty and you serve your time you have paid your dues of sorts and should be allowed to prove to society that you can function as a full member of society.

 

As for what I know of this case. Tried to hire someone for murder. Not sure circumstances or reasons...can anyone elaborate? But no one was killed by the sounds of it.

 

To take someone with a desire for further education, an aptitude for sports and dismiss it and make him a vagrant or dish washer does nothing for society but create a bitter man with greater issues. Maybe with education he can steer someone away from the same mistakes he made. Sounds like he wants to associate with normal average people in society and not druggies and thugs and thieves.

 

I say let him prove himself. Improve himself. Set an example to kids that are going the wrong way that there is reason to stop and turn your life around. People won't constantly look to destroy you so give yourself a fighting chance.

 

IMHO I base my comments on this particular incident and reserve judgement and personal feelings towards other cases.

 

For instance. Rape and/or kill a child. A bullet in the head now and any time in the future is all the person deserves!

 

IMHO

 

Sun

[Jayhad]

To loosely quote a book I once read...... let those without fault cast the first stone

everyone deserves to learn and mature from a mistake

[Smitty]

Personally I think anyone who is convicted of any type of crime should not be allowed to play in amature or professional sports.

 

The reason why I say this is because alot of times you have young children who idolise these people and basically you are saying you can do a crime pay the price and come back like there was nothing wrong.

 

What type of rolemodels do we want to give to our children?

 

Oh Bhurt, surely you jest. Tiger didn't do anything criminal, is he a great role model? What about Mark Mcguire? And should we go into movie and music stars?

 

But mostly, I take exception about amateurs. No kid I know uses an amateur as a role model. Not many posters of amateur athletes hanging in kid's bedrooms. One may argue about Olympians, but frankly, they're professionals for all intents in terms of training, and cashing in on their Olympic medals. Amateur is someone like me, who may as well throw on an orange jersey some nights for being such a pylon.

 

To try an exclude people with criminal records from playing sports is nuts (you've banned them from amateur and pro's, so what's left? To clarify, playing a sport recreationally is the same as playing as an amateur, as defined by the dictionary).

 

And besides, if you banned those with criminal records from even playing in the pros, what would happen to the rosters of the teams belonging to the NBA and the NFL?

 

Smitty

 

P.S. The best role models are obviously the ones directly involved in a child's life. As in...the parents.

 

P.P.S. Gee-zus, Sundance, with all the light shed on the amount of innocent people/ wrongly prosecuted people sitting in jails, I'm glad you're not in charge of the criminal justice system!

[bhurt]

Smitty,

 

Collage and Univiserity Football is huge how many people do you see wearing shirt of those insitutions or other stuff.

 

Tiger is a bad role model (many not have done anything crimal), basically he told every kid out there that it is okay to cheat on your wife, and take some time off on your boat then

 

Mark Mcguire is a disgrace to the sport, basically saying you can break the rules and get records and it is okay just as long as you don't get caught and when you do just plead the 5th.

 

Micheal Vick should never be allowed to play again in my mind also beeing the huge star he was and doing the stupid thing he did.

 

I understand that we all make mistakes but you have to be accantable for those mistakes and you have to pay the price, with beeing in the lime light you are responsable for certain things. You can teach people the wrongs you have done in other ways then beeing allowed to play again.

[Guest Sundancefisher]

P.P.S. Gee-zus, Sundance, with all the light shed on the amount of innocent people/ wrongly prosecuted people sitting in jails, I'm glad you're not in charge of the criminal justice system!

 

That is the one clear problem. Those guys were wrongly convicted on circumstantial evidence.

 

How about the scenario where young kids are tortured and killed...DNA evidence is clear etc. etc. I am just saying...I have no sympathy whatsoever for those that seriously physically harm women and children.

 

But I do understand and agree with the concern over wrongful conviction. That is the crux of why we don't have that law.

 

Cheers

 

Sun

 

P.S. Paul Bernardo. In a second I would vote in favor of him getting the chair. I would even push the button myself without any remorse. Call me bad... Whatever. I think of the kids in my mind.

[Nick0Danger]

I think he should play again. Did his time now back to life, should a criminal not be aloud to work again, same thing

 

I agree with Sundance, if there is 100% absolute positive that they have there man, hang em. It takes years in texas to have someone go to death row. As it is our system give a thug a hug, best place in the world to be a criminal.

[Smitty]

Smitty,

 

Collage and Univiserity Football is huge how many people do you see wearing shirt of those insitutions or other stuff.

 

Quite true. But I would think, with the exception of some quarterbacks/receivers, most people are rabid fanatics about the school as a whole, as opposed to one player. But I get what you are saying.

 

Nick:

 

You stand corrected; best place in the world to be a criminal right now is Russia. No stable criminal justice system, the inmates run the asylum so to speak, and lots of natural resources - similar to Canada - to get rich off of, and no eco huggers to worry about (just threaten to kill them).

Just sayin'...

 

Smitty

 

[bhurt]

Smitty,

 

I think you would be surprised with how populare football is espically in the southern states, I knew when I was a kid growing up I knew every player that played for FSU and I only followed football and no other sport. Think of this, there is a place in texas called odesa, a population of about 20 thousand but yet there High School games draw roughly 60 thousand people, and this is just High School Football, image what a game at Texas A&N would draw.

 

You gotta also remeber for alot of people in the souther states sports are the only way the can gain a education, or escape the poverty that they live in and without soild rolemodels or people to look up to then what?

 

As for movie stars don't even get me started there, I remeber once watching a documentry on Paris Hilton and the whole sex scandel was a set up to put her in the lime light, it disgusts me with what some people will do just to be noticed.

 

As for denton, he tried to hire someone to kill someone else and we all say its okay he did his time now let him play, why not bann him and make him realize the seriousness of trying to get someone else killed, if it was you or me it would be alot diffrent stories, and since we are forgiving people why not forgive Graham James for what he did, afterall he servered his time why not allow him to coach again, after all he didn't try and hire someone to kill someone else (yes this statement was sarcasm)

[Nick0Danger]

Yea he can coach, adults and he did go coach kids again. Thats like putting a recovering heroin addict is a room of heroin whats going to happen.

[robert]

whoa, he tries to have someone killed - what if he had succeeded? and now it's ok to let him play hockey again? make his millions and laugh his ass off again? don't think so...

 

 

 

I was living in toronto when the bernardo case broke - there was a gag order set and we were trying to get news out of the states on what the heck was going on.

 

The chair for someone like Bernardo is too fast - what they should have done with that SOB is toss him into general population with the murderers and let them sort it out - oh yes, there would be blood. Same with Homolka - she was in the lap of luxury for her jail sentence and those girls are just has dead. Sick individuals.

[hydropsyche]

The victim in me (and I've been victimized) says hang him high. He is a failed murderer (if guilty) after all. But I don't know the circumstances (maybe he wanted the guy who killed his sister dead) so I won't be so quick to judge without knowing all the facts.

 

But the bottom line is if I had that record and I applied for a job that required a police check, I would have ZERO chance of getting hired. Why should something as prominent as a sports team be any different? I can’t play for that team because I wasn’t born with the skill (out of my control – life’s not fair) as opposed to something I did have control over (living with your decision – life’s not fair. Boo Hoo).

 

I'll never understand societies acceptance of exceptions for sport figures.

[Guest Sundancefisher]

The victim in me (and I've been victimized) says hang him high. He is a failed murderer (if guilty) after all. But I don't know the circumstances (maybe he wanted the guy who killed his sister dead) so I won't be so quick to judge without knowing all the facts.

 

But the bottom line is if I had that record and I applied for a job that required a police check, I would have ZERO chance of getting hired. Why should something as prominent as a sports team be any different? I can’t play for that team because I wasn’t born with the skill (out of my control – life’s not fair) as opposed to something I did have control over (living with your decision – life’s not fair. Boo Hoo).

 

I'll never understand societies acceptance of exceptions for sport figures.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Danton

 

Rumor has it he tried to have his ex agent killed...and the story gets strange.

 

I say he was a very mixed up guy who may of been abused and took the wrong course of action. Paid his price and wants to move on. If someone kept a list of every thing we all did wrong and never let us live the little things down we would be doomed. His was a big thing and he paid the price. What is the big deal? He is not profiting from his crime and may be a productive member of society.

 

 

[bhurt]

Sun,

 

There is a big diffrence between trying to have someone killed (for whatever reason) and doing something wrong, if I tried to have someone killed then I most likely would spend some time in jail and when I returned to normal life it would be very tuff for me to find a job as I would be a convicted criminal(I belive he was charge with consipirecy to commit murder) so why should he be any diffrent. Ask any convicted criminal how tuff it is for them to find a job once released, you hear stories all the time about them returning to crime cause they can't return to a normal life.

 

Also I bet he is on a scholership to play hockey, in my mind this should also be stripped from him for his actions, why get a free education after trying to have someone killed.

 

Regardless to what it is he still tried to have someone killed and that is never a good thing and there should be no exceptions regardless to who he is. Justice is suppose to be blind but it seems to always favour someone that is in the lime light.

[Swede]

Does anyone know what David Frost did to Denton to make him want him dead. You don't just wake up and say I want this guy dead. Did he sexually abuse him when he was a kid or steal his hard earned wages. He had to do something and if he did I say give Denton another chance.

[bhurt]

Regardless to what Frost may have done to him hiring someone to kill someone else is still against the law.

 

Like I said before if it was you or me or any jo blow then we would have the books throwen at us, why is Denton diffrent?

 

Here is another example, Linsay Lohan was pulled over for drinking and driving with a suspended licence, and then when they checked the vechicle they found cocaine inside the vechicle. What did she get, a fine and have to go to a country club for rehab. If it was you or me we would be throwen in jail for driving with a suspend licence, driving under the influnce, and also charged with drug possesion, and most likely have to do a piss test and then get charged with internal possession of a drug. Why are we diffrent from other people. It should be the same regardless to who you are.

[bigbowtrout]

Does anyone know what David Frost did to Denton to make him want him dead. You don't just wake up and say I want this guy dead. Did he sexually abuse him when he was a kid or steal his hard earned wages. He had to do something and if he did I say give Denton another chance.

 

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/545395

[Weedy1]

See what you think:

 

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/rogueagent/index.html

 

and

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2009/11/12/..._hockeycentral/

[hydropsyche]

Thanks for the links Weedy. I'm glad I wasn't so quick to judge him (he doesn't want pity, but he has mine) but I am of the opinion sports teams, being revered by youth and society, have an obligation to consider the image they portray to society. They need to weigh that against their desire to win ($) (and get the goonery and violence out of the sport, but that is a whole different thread).

 

I'm glad he's finally got his head on straight but I think he now needs to learn how to deal with life like the rest of us and learn how to live it without hockey and the lime light. It sounds like he can do it. Why not? Thousands like him have. I wish him all the best and I hope he can do better then dishwashing. I just don't want the kids in my neighborhood worshiping a guy with that background (like many football, basketball, baseball players that all too often get a second break because they make the owners B$g Bucks).

 

One thing I've learned about kids (and I used to be one) is monkey see, monkey do.

 

[rehsifylf]

Thanks for the links Weedy. I'm glad I wasn't so quick to judge him (he doesn't want pity, but he has mine) but I am of the opinion sports teams, being revered by youth and society, have an obligation to consider the image they portray to society. They need to weigh that against their desire to win ($) (and get the goonery and violence out of the sport, but that is a whole different thread).

 

I'm glad he's finally got his head on straight but I think he now needs to learn how to deal with life like the rest of us and learn how to live it without hockey and the lime light. It sounds like he can do it. Why not? Thousands like him have. I wish him all the best and I hope he can do better then dishwashing. I just don't want the kids in my neighborhood worshiping a guy with that background (like many football, basketball, baseball players that all too often get a second break because they make the owners B$g Bucks).

 

One thing I've learned about kids (and I used to be one) is monkey see, monkey do.

 

Yeah - I watched the 5th estate episodes too - but you should go read the transcripts from the Sportnest interview from a month ago. The guy is in scary denial - completely messed in the head still. That Frost freak is one seriously demented piece of work.

[chamebrs03]

everyone deserves the right to play!

[hydropsyche]

Playing in the NHL is a privilege, not a right.

[chamebrs03]

Anyone whos served there time should be allowed to play. How would you feel if back when you were young you did something stupid like get a DUI. Then you go back to play your sport or get a new job once your time is served and such. Then your boss/manager tells you that you cant play be a part of this organization due to one dumb choice in your life. Put yourself in his shoes before you are all so quick to decide. We all make mistakes. And unless your perfect which i doubt then dont be saying he dosnt deserve to play again. If someone has paid for what theyve done then why not??? If a guy can acctually do something good and you take it away from him.. its like telling a doctor to go be a miner because you dont like him.. what does that accomplish? Like you take away something from someone and its all they have, thats when people start to drink and do drugs. Then yet again if you start rejecting this guy and you cant even play the sport.. Like seriously he deserves the spot over you.

[bhurt]

If I lost my job because I was convicted of trying to hire someone to kill someone else then shame on me and YES I do deserve to lose my job.

 

Infact since I thought I had the right to deciede weather someone should live or die then most of my priviliages I enjoy should also be stripped.

 

The simple fact is this isn't about a dui or something stupid, this is about someone who thought they had the right, regardless of the mental anguish he might of been going through, to deceide weather someone should lived or die.

 

Do we know live in a society where if we are mentally abused we have the right to seek capatail punishment on that person.

 

Its time for Denton to join the rest of us, you think he would be reduced to minial wage, I highly doubt that, he will probably go on and write a book about his troubled times, and make a boat load of money. As I saw from his interviews is nothing but poiliticing himself back into the NHL. Just like Flurey did with his book and his blog entry, great way to create public sympthay or empathy, either which way you looking at what they are pimpin out.