Record Cold Temperatures

[Guest Sundancefisher]

EDMONTON

 

I heard that the only place colder than Edmonton yesterday was a spot in northern Siberia.

 

We have to think this will be killing pine beetles!!!!

 

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/p...ecember-13.aspx

 

 

Edmonton breaks weather record for coldest December 13

Posted: December 13, 2009, 3:38 PM by Scott Maniquet

weather

 

 

Sunday marked the coldest Dec. 13 in Edmonton’s history.

 

Environment Canada recorded a frigid -46.1 C, or -58.4 with wind chill, at the Edmonton International Airport at 5 a.m., Environment Canada meteorologist Pierre Lessard said.

 

The old record of -36.1 C was set last year, he said.

 

“To break a temperature by 10 degrees is very exceptional,” said Lessard.

 

A ridge of frigid Arctic air has hit all the prairie provinces this weekend, causing record-low temperatures in many parts of northern Alberta, Lessard said.

 

“Temperatures are very cold over Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. There are some places more windy than the others, especially northern Saskatchewan and the north half of Manitoba are very cold,” he said.

 

But Arctic winds are normal in the winter and should pass through by the middle of this week, Lessard said.

 

Some flights scheduled to land at the Edmonton International Airport late Saturday night and early Sunday morning were diverted to Calgary because of the severe temperatures, said Edmonton International Airport spokeswoman Traci Bednard.

 

There were some delays and a couple of cancellations for flights departing Edmonton as well on Sunday morning because of the cold, she said.

 

“Different airlines and aircrafts have different operating limits,” Bednard said.

[Guest Sundancefisher]

Anyone remember how cold for how long is required to bump off pine beetles?

 

Cold is ending finally...maybe. Looks like 14 day outlook has us going slightly above average then back below...

 

 

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/alberta/200...145591-sun.html

 

 

Northern Albrrrrrta sets record

Edmonton coldest on continent

 

By JENNA MCMURRAY AND CLARA HO, CALGARY SUN/QMI AGENCY

 

Last Updated: 14th December 2009, 2:14am

Calgarians hunkered down away from the bone-chilling cold yesterday could take solace in one thing: At least it's not Edmonton.

 

The provincial capital was the coldest place in North America yesterday morning and at one point the frostiest in the world with the windchill.

 

The Edmonton International Airport saw a record low of -46.1C with the mercury dropping to -58.4C with the windchill, out-freezing even the Arctic.

 

"The cold high pressure has been moving down from the Arctic over the prairies," said Environment Canada meteorologist John McIntyre, adding B.C and Saskatchewan also experienced plummeting temperatures.

 

But the record coldest day ever in Edmonton remains unbeaten at -48.3C with a windchill of -61C on Jan. 26, 1972.

 

Yesterday's frigid temperatures broke the previous record for Dec. 13, which was -36.1C set in 2008, as well as the record for the coldest day in December, a low of -44.5C set on Dec. 9, 1977. Cold Lake, Grande Prairie and Whitecourt also had record lows yesterday.

 

Only Dzalinda, Siberia, appeared to be colder, with a weather station there recording a temperature of -48C.

 

Calgarians meanwhile, had to settle for the balmy temperatures of the Arctic Circle, McIntyre said.

 

At its worst, the mercury plunged to -30.2C yesterday, missing the coldest Dec. 13 record of -32.8C set in 1893 by 2.6 degrees, not that it's a record most Calgarians would want to beat anyway, McIntyre said.

 

"The temperatures are really no different in the Arctic right now," he said.

 

"Alberta is the coldest place in Canada."

 

Calgary's seasonal average for this week as calculated over the past three decades is a high of -1C and a low of -13C, so yesterday's deep freeze was certainly abnormal.

 

Things won't get much better today.

 

Environment Canada is forecasting a high of -23C, but McIntyre said that number is "optimistic" and that Calgary will be lucky to hit it.

 

Things will start to warm up tomorrow when a high of -7C is predicted, though the temperature will still fall to about -26C overnight.

 

By Wednesday though, Calgarians are expected to be basking in a high of 1C, which will turn into 6C by the weekend.

 

McIntyre said Calgary's climate is one of the most peculiar he has ever come across.

 

 

[Smitty]

Its not killing pine beetles - yet.

 

You need sustained cold of -40 for several days.

 

And it will be warm again by Friday.

 

Just sayin' there isn't case to be made for optimism here, unfortunately.

 

Smitty

[Jayhad]

man i was in Iqaluit and then got shipped to cold lake thinking life may warm up..... this sucks where's this global warming Gore keeps taking about..... I'm buyin a diesel, an old one with not polution controls on it

[canadensis]

It will never be cold enough to kill the Mountain Pine Beetle.

 

If it was, then what would all of the Scientists and Biologists do that are currently studying how to stop them?

 

There certainly aren't enough Grizzly bears or Bull trout for them all to count..

[SupremeLeader]

If it was, then what would all of the Scientists and Biologists do that are currently studying how to stop them?

 

 

Your disdain for the scientific community is both naive and ignorant.

 

 

[canadensis]

Your disdain for the scientific community is both naive and ignorant.

 

And your refusal to accept a common sense approach to problem solving is both evident and self-serving.

[SupremeLeader]

And your refusal to accept a common sense approach to problem solving is evident and self-serving.

 

 

Explain?

[Smitty]

And your refusal to accept a common sense approach to problem solving is both evident and self-serving.

 

So, I just want to know that does every thread from Sept - March "must' turn into a ShacK Nasty Sh*t Show? I will now use the acronym SNSS.

 

 

Anyways, Canadensis, there is such thing as a rigorous methodology in the scientific community. Studying the Pine Beetle is a relatively straightforward process.

 

The Pine Beetle explosion, has been a result of several warmer than normal winters over the past 20 years (oh pretty please, can we turn this into another GW debate? I can't wait!! ), plus several decades of controlling forest fires.

 

So lots of unburnt trees + not cold enough temps = perfect storm for Pine Beetle.

 

Smitty

 

P.S. If there are any eye doctors on FFC, I would like relevant commentary please on whether I am at risk of semi-permanent blindness due to excessive eye rolling...

[canadensis]

Anyways, Canadensis, there is such thing as a rigorous methodology in the scientific community. Studying the Pine Beetle is a relatively straightforward process.

 

Thanks for dummin' it down for me Smitty.

 

I would think that near 100 years of fire supression would be a big part of the population explosion, but that is just my uneducated hunch..

 

[Ricinus]

I have read that a sudden cold snap occurring before the little buggers have a chance to develop their "antifreeze" will kill them. Don't know if this weather came on fast enough.

 

Regards Mike

[Guest Sundancefisher]

"...Extreme cold temperatures also can reduce MPB populations. For winter mortality to be a significant factor, a severe freeze is necessary while the insect is in its most vulnerable stage; i.e., in the fall before the larvae have metabolized glycerols, or in late spring when the insect is molting into the pupal stage. For freezing temperatures to affect a large number of larvae during the middle of winter, temperatures of at least 30 degrees below zero (Fahrenheit) must be sustained for at least five days. "

 

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/insect/05528.html

 

I found this link.

 

I think we have actually reached -34 celcius for a few days...maybe even 5 days but for a low.

 

I wonder when the last time Colorado had temperatures below -34 celcius for 5 straight days. Maybe with wind chill but clearly these buggers are hardy.

 

 

"How are they naturally controlled?

 

Healthy trees defend against beetle invasion by producing resin. Resin, or pitch, flushes the adult beetles out of the tree. This is effective when only a few beetles attack a tree, but if many insects attack, or if the tree is stressed, resin flow is reduced.

 

Temperature is also an important factor in determining beetle survival. Mountain pine beetle larvae must develop to a certain stage to tolerate cold winter weather (-40 C inside the bark). Late spring frosts and cool summers may delay beetle flight and subsequently slow brood development and increase overwintering mortality. The previous two outbreaks in Alberta, in 1984 and 1985, were ended by unseasonably cold temperatures (-30 C) in October and November.

 

Depletion of pine hosts also controls beetle populations. Once the beetles kill all the old, large pines in an area, they must fly to find more hosts. While flying, the beetles are susceptible to dehydration, predation and the possibility of not finding a suitable tree.

 

Wildfire also removes the over-mature pine stands. A fire will damage and destroy many pine trees. However, unless the fire burns really hot, some beetles may still survive in trees that are partially burned. These beetles may then easily attack nearby weakened trees."

 

http://www.mpb.alberta.ca/faq/generalquest...aspx#controlled

 

 

Sun

 

P.S. This is not a global warming thread...just curious if the cold temperatures are doing more than killing a friends pheasants...

 

[LynnF]

So glad to see we can now make an argument out of weather. It appears nothing is off limits to SL when his wife pisses in his cornflakes.

 

Carry on.

[Guest Sundancefisher]

So glad to see we can now make an argument out of weather. It appears nothing is off limits to SL when his wife pisses in his cornflakes.

 

Carry on.

 

Eventually he will come after me for some past email on some obsure thread...or maybe not. Still...funny how people get cranky when the weather is cold.

 

This is another reason SL should like global warming... People would be less cranky...

 

Strike that...topic hijack...

 

But...back on topic...still not clear we have been cold enough to do any damage to the pine beetles. Maybe in the foothills and mountains it has been significantly colder and thus will have hit the beetles harder than expected. With the wind chill the trees themselves will be colder.

 

I studied micro climate effects within various habitats and it is amazing how much warmer being in a tight white spruce forest versus a popular forest or meadow. Just amazing...

[Tungsten]

I studied micro climate effects within various habitats and it is amazing how much warmer being in a tight white spruce forest versus a popular forest or meadow. Just amazing...

 

Thats what i think the problem is,we need -40 in October or in April and it still probably won't be enough.But it would help.

[SupremeLeader]

So glad to see we can now make an argument out of weather. It appears nothing is off limits to SL when his wife pisses in his cornflakes.

 

Carry on.

 

Wow, wife comments now.....

 

Am I not allowed to comment on someone who is attacking the scientific community?

 

 

 

[SupremeLeader]

Wow, wife comments now.....

 

Am I not allowed to comment on someone who is attacking the scientific community?

 

 

hmmm, my calculations indicate Lynn is shorter and larger than my wife.

[Guest Sundancefisher]

Wow, wife comments now.....

 

Am I not allowed to comment on someone who is attacking the scientific community?

 

Wow...nice PM to me SL.

 

Hit some swear words...insulted other board members.

 

Please keep your comments professional...no personally attacks...friendly...but feel free to debate passionately.

 

I am not scared of what you have to say to me however rude you seem to like to be.

 

...but like threatening to insult my family...that is just really low...

 

Please let's try and end this attitude...start a fresh and keep future posts and PM's on the up and up.

 

Feel free to comment...but watch your tone. I assume it is not intentional but still...a change may be in order.

 

Merry Christmas

 

Sun

[flyfishfairwx]

Post the PM if it is bad, let the world at least the FFC world see what he is like when he thinks nobody is watching..

 

Wow...nice PM to me SL.

 

Hit some swear words...insulted other board members.

 

Please keep your comments professional...no personally attacks...friendly...but feel free to debate passionately.

 

I am not scared of what you have to say to me however rude you seem to like to be.

 

...but like threatening to insult my family...that is just really low...

 

Please let's try and end this attitude...start a fresh and keep future posts and PM's on the up and up.

 

Feel free to comment...but watch your tone. I assume it is not intentional but still...a change may be in order.

 

Merry Christmas

 

Sun

 

 

 

[SanJuanWorm]

I lol'd at the SNSS comment smitty. Well done.

 

The pine beetles are the least of the worlds problem. The biggest problem is how to control this SNSS.

 

Yah it's 4:30 AM. Teething baby = no sleepy.

[Guest Sundancefisher]

Post the PM if it is bad, let the world at least the FFC world see what he is like when he thinks nobody is watching..

 

I was hoping to just clear the air with SL privately but he sent me the nasty PM then blocked any return.

 

Posting PM's IMHO is opening up a can of worms. By their nature and design they are private messages.

 

Still SL...please watch what you say both on the forums and in a PM.

 

Here is a suggestions.

 

Instead of..."Your disdain for the scientific community is both naive and ignorant."

 

say..."Given all the internet chatter about climate gate and some scientific irregularities I can understand some concern...I personally feel that the majority of biologists are doing their jobs accurately and professionally. Hopefully all their hard work and dedication pays off for all of us in the long run regardless of subject of study or topic."

 

Cheers

 

Sun

[LynnF]

Come on SL ya chicken *hit...open up your PMs so I can give a suitable response to your really nice one to me too or I may just put on here what you and your buddy Tony wrote me. I gotta admit, I love a guy who can shoot a bullet and then deflect one at the same time. Shows true character.

 

I'm not gonna take back the wife comment...it wasn't really directed at her or meant as a slight on her character. More on yours. But I will say I do feel sorry for her and think she's a saint.

[Weedy1]

It's pretty childish that this sparring match with SL has come to the point of nasty PM's. If you feel the PM's crossed the line, I would suggest forwarding them to the site admin and requesting they ban him.

[snuffy]

Thanks for dummin' it down for me Smitty.

 

I would think that near 100 years of fire supression would be a big part of the population explosion, but that is just my uneducated hunch..

 

Nope - the fires that actually burn significant areas are too intense to fight. Generally, the best we can manage is to save structures. You'd have a better argument if you pointed at fragmentation. Now if only someone would get this through the thick head of the fool that runs the perscribed burn program in Banff, maybe he'd spare us another nearly-burning-down-Banff-townsite incident.

[SanJuanWorm]

You're a classy guy Sundance.