Again With The Morons

[flyfishfairwx]

Well I went fishing Sat..

 

Found this stuck in a tree over the river, it had a swivel and line attached to it.. so defend it !!! I dare you, this time there is no wiggle room.. with out a doubt - it was used on this river...

 

Proof positive that the Alberta wilderness has been host to that invasive species - Urbanodourous-moroneious ... hopefully it is transient.....

 

Talked to a CO today and gave him all the details and the poor guys just lowered his shaking head and I think I saw a tic in his right eye...

 

 

 

[headscan]

I don't get it. Pretty sure treble hooks are legal in Alberta.

 

Edit: never mind. missed the barbs.

[Justfreewheelin]

wow was wondering where that got to thanks, can we meet somewhere so I can get that back, can't tell you how many bull I have caught with that, oh and kept them all.

 

funny how everyone always posts when they find this crap, too bad none of us are the culprits.

[jonn]

Well I went fishing Sat..

 

Found this stuck in a tree over the river, it had a swivel and line attached to it.. so defend it !!! I dare you, this time there is no wiggle room.. with out a doubt - it was used on this river...

 

Proof positive that the Alberta wilderness has been host to that invasive species - Urbanodourous-moroneious ... hopefully it is transient.....

 

Talked to a CO today and gave him all the details and the poor guys just lowered his shaking head and I think I saw a tic in his right eye...

 

 

 

 

Instead of bitching about these so called morons with barbs everytime you find them, try educating them.

 

[loeber]

As long as you can buy barbed hooks people will use them.

legal or not.

[robert]

I hate treble hooks... silly question, but why are barbless hooks so much more expensive than barbed? there's one less step in the manufacture but expensive.

[trailhead]

People just don't read the regs, my brother was fishing with barbed hooks and he didn't know that Alberta has been barbless for years. And yesterday I was running along the river by the Centre Street bridge and saw a fly fisherman there. I stopped and told him the river is closed there and he said no, I said read the regs. He actually had them in his vest and when he realized that I was right he was all apologetic and asked where it was open. Ignorance is no excuse but many times it is the reason,

[reevesr1]

Better to call them all morons and question their breeding. Barely any fish left in the Bow due to this infestation of barbed chucking morons. I only hooked 15 or so in two hours yesterday. The river has been lost I tell you.

[bhurt]

People just don't read the regs, my brother was fishing with barbed hooks and he didn't know that Alberta has been barbless for years. And yesterday I was running along the river by the Centre Street bridge and saw a fly fisherman there. I stopped and told him the river is closed there and he said no, I said read the regs. He actually had them in his vest and when he realized that I was right he was all apologetic and asked where it was open. Ignorance is no excuse but many times it is the reason,

 

You are correct, ignorance is no excuse but on the flip side to this I know when I first started fishing and I first looked at the regs I was completly lost and didn't know what was the west slops or east slops or what then trying to figure out everything was even tuffer. The fact that he had the regs on him tells me he was at least trying (still no exuse) and at kleast he apoligized when he found out he was wrong, people like that I can have more mercy towards, its the assholes that just don;t give a **** that pisses me off.

 

For example I was walking to the good old *hit hole yesterday and came across a spin caster and got talking fish stories with him (yes I am nice to everyone regardless of what method they choose to fish) and he told me about him catching big browns by the carseland weir, I didn't need to say anything but he did express he thought it was sad he couldn't keep it but he did say rules are rules. Then I told him that the section he was fishin was closed because of the spawnning browns. He told me he thought the section was above the weir so I instructed him that he was wrong and the fines he could take he then told me that he wouldn't be doing that again. Just to be on the safe sided later that day I did put in a call to RAP to let them know about it.

 

[bhurt]

Better to call them all morons and question their breeding. Barely any fish left in the Bow due to this infestation of barbed chucking morons. I only hooked 15 or so in two hours yesterday. The river has been lost I tell you.

 

Sensative subject for you rick? Usally its me give these kind of replies, hehehehehe, needed a good laugh this morning at work.

[reevesr1]

I hate treble hooks... silly question, but why are barbless hooks so much more expensive than barbed? there's one less step in the manufacture but expensive.

 

Not silly at all. Economy of scale is the reason. Way, way more barbed hooks are made lowering the cost per unit.

 

Another interesting aspect in all this is if you do some research, it is easy to find that many of the studies conducted show no change in mortality of barbed vs. barbless. In fact, some studies show an increase in mortality of barbless treble hooks vs barbed-though the study stated the difference (3% vs 4%) was statistically meaningless in the sample size. The most curious was that dual treble hook Rapala's showed 0 mortality. The studies stated that even with the increased handling time, there was no change in mortality for any hook type -single or treble barbed vs barbed. The only big (huge actually) change was when bait was studied. Very high mortality rates when the hook was swallowed.

 

The conclusion of the study I read (actually a compilation of studies) said issue of barbed vs barbless is more a social issue than a mortality issue.

 

Even though the barb does not seem to increase mortality, I would think in a catch a release river it probably does increase non-mortal hook damage. But as far as I know there is no study to support that. Hence the term social issue.

 

 

 

[troutlover]

Ahh Ricks not bitching hes just bragging

 

Edit: 15 fish in two hrs thats a fish every 8 min hmmmmm.

[Teck71]

I hate treble hooks... silly question, but why are barbless hooks so much more expensive than barbed? there's one less step in the manufacture but expensive.

 

WHat Rick said, also when a hook is made the barb is created when the wire is grabbed by the machine, so for a barbless hook a diferent (new) machine has to be used. so part of the price is to offset the cost of new equiptment. from what I learned when checking out this ?.

 

Teck

[flyfishfairwx]

Instead of bitching about these so called morons with barbs everytime you find them, try educating them.

 

The folks that use this stuff are like the Poachers on salmon streams they do not use them when others are around, and if they do then yes they are likely just not informed and I do info them and in the most polite and educational manner, I give flies and etc... to help out and have not had a bad response by someone who truly did not know the diff...

 

 

 

[markd]

I bet 90% of the forum members have looked down at the fly they were using and realized that they didn't pinch down the barb or didn't pinch it down fully!!!! I pinch down all my barbs before puting them in my fly boxes, but i still find the odd one thats still got a barb.

[Smitty]

Remembering the previous thread that FFairwx posted, I'm glad for the sake of his family he didn't blow another artery causing massive cardiac arrest/stroke.

 

 

Smitty

[Guest rickleblanc]

I have no sympathy for the guy fishing a closed section, but hey, he was carrying the regs, and said sorry. Give me a break! Some people make up lies like that, you know. You can't figure out the regs? Don't fish there then!

 

The problem lies in these people's sense of entitlement. Just because they made the instructions difficult for your little brain to puzzle out, doesn't give you any rights. :derby racer:

 

Rick

[Parry]

I have no sympathy for the guy fishing a closed section, but hey, he was carrying the regs, and said sorry. Give me a break! Some people make up lies like that, you know. You can't figure out the regs? Don't fish there then!

 

The problem lies in these people's sense of entitlement. Just because they made the instructions difficult for your little brain to puzzle out, doesn't give you any rights. :derby racer:

 

Rick

 

 

FYI Rick, some people dont know how to read. Take me for example, i have no clue how to read and as a result i rely on other people to tell me what is in the regs. So in this case is it their fault that i dont know what sections are closed? what if i really want to fish, but my friend who will remain nameless who can read isnt home, so i decide to go anyways? am i a bad person for this? food for thought man! food for thought

 

Dustin

[canadagrey]

The opportunity to fish is a priveledge not a right. Heck if you are under 16 or over 65 you don't even need a license.

[rehsifylf]

No offesnse intended Flyfishfairwx - but you seem wound a little tight on this issue. Next time you go fishing, take one of the 420 dudes with you.

[Justfreewheelin]

The thing is I come home, want to relax a little, jump on the forum to see that I should have gone fishing, cause everyone else did good, and every other day it is the same old crap, some one taking pictures of barbed treble hooks, and posting it none other than on a forum that I would like to say most of us follow the rules, quit wasting your time telling the guys that already know.

What you want a pat on the back for finding a treble hook. good job bud. come over and I'll give you a cookie.

 

 

 

 

[flyfishfairwx]

No offesnse intended Flyfishfairwx - but you seem wound a little tight on this issue. Next time you go fishing, take one of the 420 dudes with you.

 

 

No offense taken, have not done the 420 stuff in 25 years....

 

I do not think you can be wound too tight on an issue that steals something that you love and destroys a resource that you respect..

 

I do see this as very black and white , you and by this I mean me, Fish and Hunt totally legal and ethical, because there is no pride in stealing or cheating when doing it..

 

but I can see the merit in the 420 thing at times..

[hydropsyche]

The studies stated that even with the increased handling time, there was no change in mortality for any hook type -single or treble barbed vs barbed.

 

I've fished both (like most of you, I assume) and I believe that it might not kill them more but it sure does damage them more. Maybe fish are more resilent then we give them credit for.

 

I've often wondered how they do those studies. Do the same people remove both types of hooks and then put the fish in a controlled environment or do they follow the yahoo's around to see how delicate they are removing that treble with their needle nose before the fish free falls back into the water?

 

I'm probably going to get flamed for profiling but I'm not slamming yahoos. I used to be one. I'm just questioning the accuracy of these studies because of what I've seen (and done).

[maxwell]

I hate treble hooks... silly question, but why are barbless hooks so much more expensive than barbed? there's one less step in the manufacture but expensive.

 

 

the bard us actualy made first and is apart of te bending of the hook in teh manufacturing process... so ive bin told.. they dont wana re tool all of there shops to supply only a few neiche markets that are barbless.. most of t world is still barbed... so it takes mroe money too use "special" machines too make barbless.. whatever eh!!!!!!!!!! buti see why they wont make all barbless hooks.. most states dont "need" them..

 

back too teh original topic.. it sucks people dont pinch the barbs.. we sut need to educate everyone we see on the river! like others have mentioned it is usualy ignorance..

[Smitty]

I do not think you can be wound too tight on an issue that steals something that you love and destroys a resource that you respect..

 

I do see this as very black and white , you and by this I mean me, Fish and Hunt totally legal and ethical, because there is no pride in stealing or cheating when doing it..

 

"steal and destroy"...almost sounds like a Metallica song.

 

FFfwx, no doubt you are on the right side of the law. But, as we use to say in the teaching world, are you sure that's the sword you want to draw your battle lines on? Just sayin' you seem to get pretty upset over this, when:

 

1) I tend to get angrier about fishing in closed seasons, closed waters,

2) and where people use bait where prohibited,

3) and where people retain too many fish.

 

Bigger issues here, as I see it, and I haven't even touched about habitat destruction.

 

I also say this, because when the regulation was discussed on the old board when it was initially proposed, 2 points by none other than Kyle McNeilly (if anyone remembers or puts stock into what he says, but he seemed pretty knowledgeable) on studies done for hooking mortality:

1) Treble hooks do not significantly contribute to increased mortality,

2) And barbless hooks do not significantly reduce mortality.

 

Kyle seemed to think that the real issue, taken care of about a decade ago, was the use of bait. Now, just to be fair, I am basing my position on someone else's knowledge, and their interpretation of studies done. Undoubtedly, some smart people on this board who have also done the research may have a different take.

 

FFFwx, to take this full circle, I can see where you are coming from. An analogy; for years New York city had a bad crime rate; and many of the city officials felt a crackdown was needed on the worst of the worst. But when Guiliani came in and had a zero-tolerance policy on everything, including so-called "petty" crimes like graffiti and subway fare evasion, guess what happened? All the crime rate went down.

 

Smitty