What Is The Truth About The H1n1 Flu?

[Din]

Terry, as I said, I have spoken to MD's (one of them being my family doctor). So i have heard each side of the argument directly, allowing me to make an informed personal decision that I am comfortable with, just as you are.

 

If you tune out those sources, you are cutting yourself short in my opinion, therefore not allowing you to make an informed decision.

 

You are right, that is where I am coming from re: the Vitamin D and B12. Unfortunately, I have not seen that article in today's paper, so thanks for bringing that to my attention.

 

Din, if you're getting your information from chiropractors, homeopaths, and naturopaths, that explains everything, as far as I'm concerned. Don't believe everyone with a doctor in front of their name -- their credibility depends on how and where they got their degree. As it happens, I have a PhD, but it's in Mechanical Engineering. Therefore, despite being legally entitled to use the title "Dr" (which I rarely if ever do) I have absolutely no expertise in medicine, and the important thing is that I know it. That's why I'm very careful in checking the sources of all the information I'm getting on the H1N1 issue. I would suggest when it comes to public health, virology, and microbiology, that chiropractors, homeopaths, and naturopaths are not qualified either. On the other hand, my training and experience allows me to sift through conflicting information, to assess the credibility of various sources, and to come to an informed personal decision. Basically, that's what we all have to do -- I'm just saying, watch where you're getting your information.

 

Many people are saying the information on H1N1 is confusing. Well, I've found the information from the medical people to be anything but confusing. The confusion is coming from homeopaths, naturopaths, quacks, and hollywood nutbars. If you tune out all those sources, guess what? -- no confusion.

 

As an aside, I have heard the naturopath argument (repeated elsewhere in this thread) that a strong immune system is the key to avoiding the disease. I assume that's where you're coming from with the vitamin D and B12 recommendation. I would point out that the medical people agree a strong immune system is good, however, they also say that it will not prevent you from getting the disease if you are exposed. Furthermore, there is some concern in the medical community (as reported in today's papers) that the severe cases in young people may be due to their immune system reacting too strongly.

 

Terry

 

[ÜberFly]

Neither is glycol but you drink it every time you have a beer in Mexico, Thailand, India, etc. It's used as a preservative!! LoL

 

P

 

Can't tell me that formaldehyde is good for the body.....

 

[Smitty]

"I never said "just" take some vitamins. I said do so along with the other precautions (proper rest, lots of water, washing hands, etc), so don't call me irresponsible. If anything you are irresponsible by not listening to both sides of the argument."

 

Din, the other "precautions" are the common sense we've been inundated for years, do they don 't lend weight to your opinion. Both "sides" of the argument advocate a common sense approach to avoiding infection.

 

Secondly, I stand by what I said. If that's what it took to get you to explain yourself, it served a good purpose. Thanks for your explanation and clarifications. Its not about your obsession with media hype and our "closed" minds, its about weighing what intelligent, informed people are saying. That's the basis for the original question. Something as serious as a pandemic, and infectious disease is too important to discuss on the level of "let me pit my uniformed opinion versus your uniformed opinion". It was perfectly justifiable to put your opinions to the test.

 

Anyways, you provided the basis of why you are not getting the vaccine, and that is appreciated. You haven't convinced me, but at least I can move forward in investigating whether your claims are true or not. As far as I've gotten along in this issue, it appears there is more consensus amongst knowledgeable people that would support getting the vaccine.

 

Smitty

[Din]

Sorry if you thought I was misinterpreting/misconstruing your comment.

 

My intention was to show that they do have an educational background more than what most people assume or are aware of.

 

Yes they may receive some, but it not nearly as extensive <fact> - I to know chiro's personally...

 

P

 

P.S. I'm not debating chiros, my comment/reply is related to their training/education as it compares to "medical practioners"... So please don't misinterpret/misconstrue.

 

 

 

[Din]

Well, it looks like I won't be going to be drinking any beers or eating any food with preservatives now... :derby racer:

 

Neither is glycol but you drink it every time you have a beer in Mexico, Thailand, India, etc. It's used as a preservative!! LoL

 

P

 

[ÜberFly]

And I'm not disagreeing with you as they do have a high level of training with some of it focusing on diseases/disease states, etc.,

 

But then again, nurses, who are also trained within a "medical model" and they think they can do it all, as well!! LoL

 

P

 

P.S. Opps sorry a personal bias coming out (I am a Health Eduaction specialist btw, that is not a nurse!!) LoL

 

Sorry if you thought I was misinterpreting/misconstruing your comment.

 

My intention was to show that they do have an educational background more than what most people assume or are aware of.

 

[rehsifylf]

Being born in 1981.. i'm pretty naive to Polio. Have had to Google it, basically.

 

Couple questions for those of you who lived through those times..

 

Was the Polio vaccine fully tested on humans before it was pushed out to the public?

 

And how does Polio compare to H1N1 in both prevalance and seriousness of symptoms? Is it fair to compare the two?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the polio vaccine effective at preventing polio? I've not seen efficacy studies on the H1N1 flu vaccine, but pretty sure that getting the shot does not mean you won't get sick. I usually get a flu shot, but have often gotten the flu anyway.

 

Regarding the question about reading about the 2 healthy kids in Ontario that died from H1N1 last week. I did read that. Right under the article about the 5.3 million children that died last year from malnutrition. Take the money we're spending on a Flu vaccine in NA that MIGHT work, and use it for establishing agriculture programs in Africa and you would save 1000 times more lives. Of course, those are just African lives, so not nearly as important, right?

[TerryH]

..........You are right, that is where I am coming from re: the Vitamin D and B12. Unfortunately, I have not seen that article in today's paper, so thanks for bringing that to my attention.

Din, the article I was referring to, is on the front page of today's National Post. This link should get you there.

 

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2156348

 

I listened to Cross Country Checkup on the CBC last Sunday as I was driving home. The topic was, not surprisingly, the H1N1 flu. They had a number of medical experts dealing with a variety of questions. One of them responded to the concern about thimersol and mercury. He said the amount of mercury one gets from everyday exposure far exceeds the amount you'd get from a vaccination. In fact, he said, you'd get more mercury from eating a can of peanuts. So there you go, don't eat peanuts nor drink Mexican beer .

 

Terry

[mvdaog]

I am in medical school and have seen a good percentage of my fellow classmates fall ill with H1N1 in the past couple weeks - more patient contact and being in the hospital puts us at higher risk of being infected, clearly. They're feeling like crum, but seemingly, so far, ok in the long run. I never wanted to get the H1N1 vaccine because I'm so cocky - I feel if I got sick it wouldn't be that bad, I've never got the flu before, and I've never got a flu shot. But then I heard from a few (more insightful) individuals tell me that by not getting it, I'm putting a lot more patients in the hospital at risk that won't be able to handle it as well, and I'm not helping the herd immunity,etc. Stuff other than myself. After some thinking and debating, I decided to get the shot. For your children and your loved ones who might have health problems.... it's the least I could do, and I'm not in any way scared that the world government is planning a supreme world order of any kind with these vaccines....the scare about the ingredients is all lies, much more than the h1n1 in the news. The levels of the 'bad stuff' is actually much smaller than we're used to in everyday exposure already.

 

For your interest...

 

Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish

Canadians who decide against having the flu shot should consider the harm that might come to other people and the health-

care system

Juliet Guichon and Ian Mitchell

From Tuesday's Globe and Mail Published on Monday, Oct. 26, 2009 6:08PM EDT Last updated on Tuesday, Oct. 27, 2009

6:51AM EDT

 

A recent poll indicated that 48 per cent of Canadians might refuse the H1N1 vaccination – and that

number went up to 51 per cent in an online poll reported in yesterday's Globe and Mail. These figures

suggest that many Canadians are not considering the public good and have a misguided understanding

of their personal interest.

According to Canada's Chief Public Health Officer, David Butler-Jones, the risk of experiencing severe

side effects after receiving the shot is one in a million, compared with the 20 to 35 per cent of the

population who will get sick from this pandemic flu without protection. “If every single Canadian is

inoculated,” he said, “then 30 Canadians could have the potential for a severe side effect, compared to

10 million people sick, 100,000 people in hospital and 10,000 people dead.”

In the face of such numbers, Canadians should consider not just the risks to themselves, their loved

ones and those with whom they come in contact, but also to our health-care system.

The public nature of Canadian health care creates both individual rights and individual

responsibilities. But people can assert rights to a public resource without recognizing a responsibility

toward its limited nature. This problem was brilliantly described in 1968 by ecologist Garrett Hardin in

the journal Science as “the tragedy of the commons.” In this hypothetical case, individual actors

operate on self-interest and ultimately destroy a shared limited resource – even when such destruction

is clearly not to anyone's long-term benefit. Canadians are familiar with this tragedy because it

describes the collapse of the Atlantic cod fishery.

Mass H1N1 vaccination refusal similarly might destroy (at least temporarily) our health-care system,

with the threatened 100,000 people in hospital. We have a limited number of hospital beds and

respirators and a finite number of people who know how best to use them. Every vaccinated person

increases the likelihood that health-care professionals will be free to treat other people. What's more,

inoculation reduces transmission. If unvaccinated people make health-care workers sick, they cannot

look after other patients.

While the tragedy of the commons can shed light on vaccination choice, it cannot explain why an

individual would choose to act against his or her self-interest. (The cod fishers who depleted the fish

stocks to the detriment of future generations at least enjoyed immediate personal benefit.)

 

Although vaccine refusers seem motivated to avoid personal risk, they are really acting from

misinformation and a one-sided view of risk. Public-health officials have tried to transfer their

considerable knowledge to those fearful of vaccination. But they are up against the Internet, which

makes plentiful both good and bad information.

Moreover, lay people can be confused by publicly available scientific information because they don't

understand the scientific method or conversations scientists have among themselves. If a scientist

were 99-per-cent certain that something is true, the scientist would reveal and discuss the 1-per-cent

uncertainty. Therefore, for lay people to state that the scientist is uncertain is to misstate the

conversation.

Some vaccination refusers also imply that public-health officials are in the pocket of the

pharmaceutical industry. But we pay these officials to act in the public interest. And, almost certainly,

their moral disposition is to act in the public interest. Moreover, the Canadian public service has

systems to ensure that its officials are not directed by private or foreign interests.

If half of Canadians refuse vaccination, our limited health-care resources (people, medical supplies

and physical infrastructure) will probably be depleted. How can we avoid such a tragedy?

This year's Nobel Prize in economics was awarded to Elinor Ostrom for demonstrating that if those

people who are threatened by the depletion of scarce resources repeatedly interact, then they change

their behaviour to safeguard the threatened commons.

Such interaction includes talking. Perhaps the gravity of the current situation requires unusually frank

conversation among Canadians, such as, “My diabetic child needs ongoing access to health care that

you, refusing H1N1 vaccination for yourself and your children, might block.”

It seems better to have these conversations now than next year when it might be too awful to speak

about how vaccination refusal put such a strain on health-care resources that loved ones with other

conditions died.

Canadians share a common plight: an influenza pandemic; an already overstretched public health-care

system tending to a vulnerable and aging population; the availability of a safe and effective H1N1

vaccine; and our Chief Public Health Officer's recommendation to become vaccinated as soon as

possible.

These facts require citizens to decide how best to assess personal interest and to reconcile it with the

duty to protect the public good.

We are entitled to share in limited health-care resources. How much will we demand? We are invited

to be vaccinated against H1N1. How will we each respond?

Juliet Guichon holds a doctorate in law and is senior associate in the Office of Medical Bioethics at

the University of Calgary. Ian Mitchell is a professor of pediatrics and bioethics at the University of

Calgary.

© Copyright 2009 CTVglobemedia Publishing Inc. All Rights Reserved.

[Weedy1]

If the lineups outside the hospitals get to the point that the medical system has to start turning people away, will those of you that decided NOT to get your shot be willing to step aside for someone that is sick who did get their shot?

 

Get it?

 

 

[canadensis]

I had a chiropractor tell me that he could treat/cure my asthma through chiropractic adjustment. Quite a few chiropractors are quacks...

[loviatt]

Din,

I respectfully disagree with your comments about training duration and expertise. I have a brother who is a chiropractor as well - canadian trained and well trained at that. I have a further 5 years of education beyond his training, as would nearly all specialist physicians in Canada. Even family doctors have an additional 2 years beyond what chiropractors have. The focus on immunology and population health was entirely lacking in his education. He is far better than me about neurologic issues pertaining to the spine, so of course I must bow to his superior knowledge of the central nervous system. He does not try to lecture me about infectious diseases of the lung, nor should any chiropractor without getting the appropriate training first (ie going to medical school then becoming a specialist in pulmonary medicine, infectious diseases, or critical care medicine). Cheers.

[hydropsyche]

I occasionally get abdomen pain. I had an ultrasound and hida scan done to find the cause and medical science couldn't tell me what was wrong. Years later I described it during a routine visit to my chiropractor, he told me what my problem was, gave me some pills, and now when I feel it coming on, I take a couple and voila. I think he nailed it. My respect for chiro's went way up.

 

ps. Got my shot the first day it was available.

[canadensis]

I occasionally get abdomen pain. I had an ultrasound and hida scan done to find the cause and medical science couldn't tell me what was wrong. Years later I described it during a routine visit to my chiropractor, he told me what my problem was, gave me some pills, and now when I feel it coming on, I take a couple and voila. I think he nailed it. My respect for chiro's went way up.

 

ps. Got my shot the first day it was available.

 

well I went to a chiropractor, and a well known one at that for a buttock/hamstring/calf issue. Some days it was so bad I could barely walk, crazy muscle spazms. This chiropractor says it is a periformis muscle injury and it is pulling on all the muscles in the ass cheek, hammy and calf after his thurough exam. 2x a week for active release therapy (AKA medeival torture) and then massage was his therapy. Long story short a customer of mine- a radiologist and sees how bunged up I am, I tell him the story and he gets me in for an MRI. The MRI shows a massive bulged disc in my back causing nerve impingement. My chiro missed this by a mile. So after I get on the right track with PROPER therapy I find out how common this is and my guy struck out on a basic diagnosis of a common issue. Sure felt good when he cracked my back though, so I guess all that school is not for nothing.

 

 

Back to the topic-

 

I drove by the Mall again and still a crazy line up for the vaccine. I think I will bite the bullet tomorrow and put the long undies on and sit it out.

 

[dube]

If the lineups outside the hospitals get to the point that the medical system has to start turning people away, will those of you that decided NOT to get your shot be willing to step aside for someone that is sick who did get their shot?

 

Get it?

 

 

No offense and I may just be naive but is the shot not supposed to prevent you from getting sick?

 

So no I don't get it, but on that note yes, if I get the flu I will stay home instead of waiting in line with the herd at the hospital and if my decision turns out to be a bad one then I guess I got what I bargained for.

I've seriously considered the pros and cons of getting this vacc. and I've decided not to get it at this point. I don't normally get seasonal flu shots and normally don't get the flu. I had all the vacc. in school when I was a kid and never got polio or small pox, I never got bird flu either despite never having been vaccinated for that. Personally I feel I am at low risk, I work outside primarily and work directly with only one other person, so I feel my low level of human contact puts me at lower risk. I'm healthy for the most part and have a regular vitamin routine as well as regular chiro. and for the most part I get only occasional cold symptoms usually more to do with my sinuses (dust is my greatest enemy). I tend not to frequent places with large crowds of people and have very little exposure to kids. These factors and the fact that there is a great percentage of the population who needs this shot more than me is what I've based my decision on. Add to the list that there is not currently enough doses to go around and my decision gets that much easier. Even had I decided to get the shot I sure as hell wouldn't be hanging out with hundreds of people at the peak of flu season for hours on end this week.... it's nuts.

There is lots of good information in this thread but there is not one shred of info to suggest that vaccines are actually good for you or even non harmful. Fact is there is some nasty *hit in these vaccines and I feel getting them year after year is really bad for us in the long run and that ultimately when the time comes where this is for real people who have continuously pounded their bodies with these series of shots will be worse off. Less receptive to vaccines if you will. The flus will continue to mutate and change and there will always be some danger of things getting out of hand but I think when that time comes there will be noting we can do. H1N1 as a flu goes is not exactly severe, it's serious but most people who contract it are recovering on their own by following the common steps to beating a flu- rest. STAYING HOME. 12 confirmed H1N1 deaths in AB so far, I may be cold but the number hardly seems extreme to me. I'm pretty sure my girlfriend had it and she did go see her doctor because she was showing some solid symptoms in my opinion, harsh relentless cough, trouble breathing, sore and achy, dizzy and out of it. Doc says no swine flu just a respiratory infection/chest cold, gives her steroid puffer and sends her home and to come back if it doesn't help to go ahead with a more aggressive antibiotic. She's fine now. Any chance she could have been misdiagnosed?

 

I'm no expert or a scientist or know any health professionals personally or even any secondary health personnel or even a good hypochondriac and moreover may just be irresponsible and stupid but I'm going to wait it out and see what happens. And with all due respect to those of you who are so caught up in the media hype and studies done and research carried out- don't worry if I ever run into you on the river I won't expect you to shake my hand.

 

Bring on the broccoli flu. OOOOhhhhh maybe west nile or hanta will make a big comeback, throw in some avian and we got a real pandemic party.

 

I'm not trying to make light of this but honestly there has not been sufficient evidence provided that tells me this is something I really must do.

[canadensis]

When people are weighing the pro's and con's of getting the H1N1 vaccine, what are the con's?

 

Everyone talks of how they "feel" about it, but lay down some facts as why you should not get it.

[dube]

When people are weighing the pro's and con's of getting the H1N1 vaccine, what are the con's?

 

Everyone talks of how they "feel" about it, but lay down some facts as why you should not get it.

 

Well some irresponsible morons have done some research and some of the studies have shown that there may be acute severe side effects from the vaccine immediately. A previous post lists a few of the toxic ingredients of these vaccinations and that is in the short term.....long term, well I guess we'll find out down the road. Cancer is pretty popular these days, no real good explanation for that I suppose. Something in the air I guess.

 

I'm not pregnant, or a small child, no chronic conditions,not a senior, not a healthcare provider, don't really work in "public", no kids.

 

I think (couldn't really call it a "feeling") that repeated vaccinations are more harmful than a moderate risk of a moderate flu from time to time. Not everyone who comes down with this flu is dropping dead but there is this perceived danger because the media is having a bloody field day with this. A person who gets the flu and feels like *hit so took a week off work to get better is not exactly good news now is it?

 

When healthcare professionals are refusing to have the shot themselves it makes me question whether it is something I want to do. Again, I may eat my words and then I'll have gotten what I bargained for but so be it. If I get sick I will stay home, I can, I'm my own boss.

 

Besides telling me more about this notion that the shot will make me and the rest of my community "safe",lay down some facts why I should get it.

[loviatt]

I can't wait to see the fishing next season, after a large number of regular users of our rivers are decimated by the swine flu! Should lead to lots less pressure and better action everywhere.

 

The reasons that swine flu is so dangerous is that it is affecting young and typically healthy indiviuals with severe and possibly fatal lung injury. It is spread person to person, not by bugs or mouse feces like west nile or hanta. Unless you are a complete shut in, you probably come into contact with people, or things that people touch after any of the following:

coughing

sneezing

wiping nose/mouth/eyes

By you not getting the shot, you can become ill. Of course the vast majority of individuals will not require the ICU or hospitalization. But, by becoming ill, you then become the sneezer/cougher and spread it to others who may not be so fortunate and could potentially develop one of the severe reactions. There are all sorts of mathematic models which explain the concept of herd immunity, but basically, by enough of the population having developed immunity to an infection, the chances that non-immune individuals meet and propagate the infection become lower and lower. Most individuals exposed to a possible infectious element have immunity, so will not develop the infection themselves and cannot then pass it along if they have been immunized. Without this, the cascade of person to person infection can persist until basically all of the non-immune population have either experienced the disease and developed immunity, succumbed to the disease and died, or some combination of the same.

 

That is my public health lecture for the evening. I just got finished from the ICU where there are several patients on ventilators at present - a very rare event in any given year, let alone for the age group of patients (none have grey hair). I hope that the whole thing is over-hyped by the government (which admittedly is doing a poor job of effectively providing the vaccine to the public - my wife had to wait 6 hours for hers...and she is 38 weeks pregnant). But, current experience at my workplace and speaking with colleagues in other parts of the province suggests that the hype is based on some pretty sobering realities. Good luck to all in this difficult time of long waits, recessions, and poor dry-fly fishing.

[Weedy1]

No offense and I may just be naive but is the shot not supposed to prevent you from getting sick?

 

Dube, there are many reasons people get sick and need to go to the hospital besides having the H1N1 flu. There are other flu strains as well as all the other medical treatments that require taking care of on a dialy basis, such as your girlfriends case. Having lines of people who are sick due to H1N1 that could have been prevented with a shot is simply irresponsible on their part. Why potentially use up resources if it can be prevented?

[headscan]

Having lines of people who are sick due to H1N1 that could have been prevented with a shot is simply irresponsible on their part. Why potentially use up resources if it can be prevented?

As opposed to all the people who will be rushing to the emergency room with every sniffle and sneeze thinking that it's H1N1 because of all the media FUD being spread?

[dube]

Weedy, unscientific;

You both pose some very good points and as I mentioned before there are some solid points here to suggest getting the shot is the right thing to do or rather not getting it is selfish.

However I don't think either of you can deny that due to the recent media hayday a large portion of the population will be running for the hospital at the first sign of a sore throat which is a big no no. Right? Fact is that the majority of folks who come down with this will recover on their own. With that in mind if I do become ill and stay home to recover then I don't see how that makes me irresponsible. I understand how to you it makes no sense to take the risk and see it as being selfish. I seriously have very little contact with people, literally 10 or so people a day tops. I realize that I could potentially pick it up on a shopping cart handle or gas pump but lets not get too paranoid here. I'm careful what I touch especially my face and wash my hands a lot.

 

I haven't said I'm against the shot outright, so far I just decided not to get it. At least not until the panic has subsided and there is no longer day long line ups. However after going through this thread again I may have a change of heart. My girlfriend lives in Canmore and works in Banff and has been struggling with the same dilemma. She works at the Banff center and it's a 50/50 split there. It may be tipping to the yes side as it has recently come out that there has been a few reported cases in the valley- smaller pop. higher odds. Having said that I'm headed down there today until wed. and if there is a clinic set up there we may go down and be done with it, line ups are sure to be a little less daunting. For the time being I am adamantly against waiting in line with hundreds of potentially sick people to get my shot so I don't get the flu....it doesn't add up to me. Again once the panic subsides and I can just walk in and get the shot it will be much easier for me to stomach.

 

I appreciate everyone offering their comment and information, I hope this thread has done some good as far as making people look at the cost their decisions may have. I'm not trying to be naive or ignorant or even rebbelious but have just been looking at the facts and made my choices based on that. I don't intend to piss anyone off or be flippant about the whole thing as I understant this is potentially very serious but mass hysteria is not going to solve anything and in fact in my mind may only make matters worse.

 

Unscientific- I mean this as a light hearted joke but considering the threads this summer concerning over crowding on our rivers would it not be for the best if we got thinned out a little? No one here is going to argue that point.

[Crowsnest]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the polio vaccine effective at preventing polio? I've not seen efficacy studies on the H1N1 flu vaccine, but pretty sure that getting the shot does not mean you won't get sick. I usually get a flu shot, but have often gotten the flu anyway.

 

Regarding the question about reading about the 2 healthy kids in Ontario that died from H1N1 last week. I did read that. Right under the article about the 5.3 million children that died last year from malnutrition. Take the money we're spending on a Flu vaccine in NA that MIGHT work, and use it for establishing agriculture programs in Africa and you would save 1000 times more lives. Of course, those are just African lives, so not nearly as important, right?

 

 

Well said.

 

 

[reevesr1]

I used to live in hurricane country. Any time the government recommended or ordered an evacuation and the hurricane didn't come, it was because the stupid government overreacted and the media over hyped it. Any time the government recommended/ordered an evacuation and the hurricane did come and people get stuck in the path, the stupid government ordered the evacuation too late and the morons in the media did not do enough to get the word out. Oh, and anyone who did not leave and got stuck in their damn house had to be rescued-on the taxpayer dime.

 

Seems to me the gov/media can't win no matter what they do. No matter the outcome it's their fault. Much the same about this flu thing. Depending on the story you read or person you talk to, the gov either is over reacting, under planning, or both. The the media is creating hysteria by reporting the story. I can promise you that no matter the outcome, it will be the media or governments fault. They are easy and convenient targets. Not saying they are not sometimes at fault, I am saying they aren't always at fault.

 

And while I do certainly acknowledge their are worse things happening right now than H1N1, to say that the money would be better spent elsewhere is specious. The money spent on vaccines would never be set aside for some other reason, particularly charities in other countries. It is not the governments responsibility to take care of Africa, as horrible as that may sound. It's the governments responsibility to take care of us. If we want to impact starvation somewhere else, it is up to us to contribute to that. And I do by the way, it is an extremely worthwhile cause.

[TerryH]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the polio vaccine effective at preventing polio? I've not seen efficacy studies on the H1N1 flu vaccine, but pretty sure that getting the shot does not mean you won't get sick. I usually get a flu shot, but have often gotten the flu anyway.

 

Regarding the question about reading about the 2 healthy kids in Ontario that died from H1N1 last week. I did read that. Right under the article about the 5.3 million children that died last year from malnutrition. Take the money we're spending on a Flu vaccine in NA that MIGHT work, and use it for establishing agriculture programs in Africa and you would save 1000 times more lives. Of course, those are just African lives, so not nearly as important, right?

Every year the medical people responsible for the makeup of the seasonal flu vaccine have to make an educated guess about which strains of virus will be involved in the upcoming seasonal flu. As I understand it, the seasonal flu vaccine contains a number of strains that are considered to have the highest probability of showing up during flu season. However, since flu viruses are constantly changing, they sometimes get it wrong and you may still get the flu. The medical people making these predictions told us last spring that H1N1 would show up this fall, that it would probably be the dominant flu strain, that it would spread through the population at a much higher rate than the normal seasonal flu, that it would affect groups not normally at high risk, and that for some, it would prove fatal. I believe the evidence shows they were right on all counts. The H1N1 vaccine is aimed specifically at the H1N1 virus. Not being a medical type, I can't comment on how effective it will be, and I'm not sure the medical types even have the data yet. However, to argue that since seasonal flu vaccines have not been 100% effective in preventing all types of flu in a given year, that the H1N1 vaccine will not be effective is pretty weak, and involves a type of logic that I'm not familiar with.

 

Furthermore, to argue that all the public health money being spent on H1N1 flu prevention in Canada should instead be sent to deal with starvation in Africa, and to imply that by not doing so ("...just African lives, so not nearly as important, right?") is somehow racist, is ludicrous. Which tinpot African dictator would you like to send the money to?

 

Therefore, rehsifylf and Crowsnest, I have to disagree, the post by rehsifylf was not "Well said."

 

Terry

[Din]

I don't understand how the homeless are able to get their vaccinations before the high risk groups who want to get it who are forced to wait in 6+ hour lines...especially with the shortage of vaccinations right now.

 

Who pays the taxes in this situation?