What Is The Truth About The H1n1 Flu?

[loviatt]

Oh, and I would have posted the last post much earlier, if I had not been kept at work so long over the past week with a rising number of EXTREMELY sick patients with H1N1. Cheers.

[birchy]

Being born in 1981.. i'm pretty naive to Polio. Have had to Google it, basically.

 

Couple questions for those of you who lived through those times..

 

Was the Polio vaccine fully tested on humans before it was pushed out to the public?

 

And how does Polio compare to H1N1 in both prevalance and seriousness of symptoms? Is it fair to compare the two?

[loviatt]

I didn't live through the polio epidemic either, but there's lots of similarities between the two from an epidemiology standpoint (young affected, serious consequences not in everyone but dire in the few that are seriously affected, and person to person contact spread). They don't have great population studies for the polio vaccine, but that was the 1950's, so a bit of the wild west era of population medicine. And the polio vaccine has virtually eliminated polio as a modern threat. In a similar way, H1N1 is largely human to human spread now that it left its porcine host. So, herd immunity (stopping the transmission of the virus by having large numbers of immunized individuals that do not become infected hosts and cannot therefore spread the virus) is paramount in drawing a close to the pandemic. The H1N1 vaccine isn't so much different from the seasonal flu vaccine, in term of mechanism of inducing immunity. In fact, were I to have to comment of the efficacy of the seasonal flu vaccine, it is just as likely to not confer immunity of a given strain of influenza, as the vaccine is prepared months ahead of flu season with aims to cover certain strains that epidemiologists feel will be important that particular year. I think they probably miss as ften as they hit the important strains. Given the fact that a) we know that H1N1 is out there and can be extremely serious and fatal in SOME cases, it is spread by droplets from person to person, and c) that we have a vaccine prepared which induces an immune protective response specifically against H1N1, I cannot understand why the public has such a hard time going along with a simple intervention (other than the long waits to get the vaccine - Thanks Alberta Health Services!). but then again, everyone is free to choose for themselves i guess. Just my 2 cents as a person seeing these patients on a daily basis.

[reevesr1]

Unscientific,

Thanks. Nice to read from someone on the front line. Hope you convinced some people that maybe getting the vaccine is in their best interest. But I doubt it. Too bad.

 

[TerryH]

Couple of professionals weighing in:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinio...article1339120/

Smitty

Smitty -- excellent article, thanks for posting.

 

Unscientificangler -- thank you also for your comments. I think a lot of us non-medical types (engineer in my case) get the message, but it sounds much more convincing when coming from someone with some medical expertise.

 

As I mentioned in a previous post, I am old enough to remember the pre-vaccine polio days. I was around 10 during the mid-fifties, and let me tell you, it was scary. If you got polio, you either died, spent the rest of your life in an iron lung (think of a horizontal oil barrel with only your head sticking out), or if you were lucky, you were crippled for the rest of your life. There was no telling who was going to get it next, and everyone was looking over their shoulder. When the vaccine was announced, I don't think anyone gave a damn what was in it, how much it had been tested or what the Jenny McCarthy types thought. In fact, I don't recall any Jenny McCarthy types spouting their nonsense. Since there was no internet, and TV was just being rolled out in western Canada, people got their medical information from doctors -- probably a good thing.

 

Terry

[Guest Sundancefisher]

Smitty -- excellent article, thanks for posting.

 

Unscientificangler -- thank you also for your comments. I think a lot of us non-medical types (engineer in my case) get the message, but it sounds much more convincing when coming from someone with some medical expertise.

 

As I mentioned in a previous post, I am old enough to remember the pre-vaccine polio days. I was around 10 during the mid-fifties, and let me tell you, it was scary. If you got polio, you either died, spent the rest of your life in an iron lung (think of a horizontal oil barrel with only your head sticking out), or if you were lucky, you were crippled for the rest of your life. There was no telling who was going to get it next, and everyone was looking over their shoulder. When the vaccine was announced, I don't think anyone gave a damn what was in it, how much it had been tested or what the Jenny McCarthy types thought. In fact, I don't recall any Jenny McCarthy types spouting their nonsense. Since there was no internet, and TV was just being rolled out in western Canada, people got their medical information from doctors -- probably a good thing.

 

Terry

 

I decided to get the vaccine. Just need to find out a place to get it. I have read the recents articles about long lines for shots and I have to say there is some poor planning in the city. To get everyone panicking about H1N1 and then pull the rug out from under them is in my humble opinion bordering on incompetence.

 

Now I have heard something even more ludicrous. The City is clearly overwhelmed and unable to handle the mega numbers of people wanting this flu shot. I have heard from numerous companies (of all sizes) and senior citizen complexes that have private licensed nurses on staff and have asked for some of the flu vaccinations and have been told a resounding "NO. Not now but maybe later." I am perplexed why the Calgary Health Region and other areas would not openly applaud others taking not just the time burden but also the cost burden of the nursing requirement off the health care system. Please ask that question…I am interested to know the answer.

 

In one week, companies and nursing homes could have cleaned up the glut. Now we just have people stressing and panicking which…will probably lower their immune system and increase the likelihood of infection. How strange this whole thing has been handled!

 

 

[Castuserraticus]

Excellent Q&A on various aspects of H1N1, vaccines, adjuvants...

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health...article1329448/

(copy and paste)

 

As a scientist, I usually conduct my own research to determine the validity of news reports. It always disturbs me when only best case (political economic projections) or worst case (swine flu infection/death projections) are quoted by public officials. I accept there is always some error on forecasts but the politicization of some these issues is not acceptable. Usually the real data is available on the net so I can formulate my own opinions.

 

 

[Ricinus]

4 hour + waits in line, clinics running out of vaccine, Leduc doesn't even get a clinic til next week and all Liebert can say is Sorry about that. What a Joke

 

Regards Mike

[Jayhad]

I made my own vaccine............... by catching H1N1

[canadensis]

This exercise truly shows how incompetent our upper management public officials are, really a bunch of dipshits. I drove by avenida today to see the line and it was a side show. There is lots of vacant warehouse space in all quadrants of the city with better parking and people would not have to wait outside in the winter for up to 6 hours in a parking lot... They have been scaring the *hit out of people through all available media for the past 6 months or so, highliting deaths, and worst case scenarios, basically insisting that we get the shot. I have a chronic condition (asthma) so I will try to get the shot. Phoning my family doctor you would think I could book a vaccine there, but at this point they have no access to it. How about distributing it to Family Doctors for what are considered "high risk" people, schools for the kids, and extended care facilities for the elderly? There answer is 4 clinics for 1 million people, this is their plan? Heads should roll over the planning of this. On the news the Health Minister says this is the most efficeint way to roll it out, well he obviously does not know what efficient is if he stepped in it, these phuckers are so out of touch it sickens me...

 

 

 

All I can say if they cannot figure out how to get the vaccine out in a timely fashion what would happen if there was a true epidemic outbreak?*hit the hospitals and emergency rooms are beyond capacity right now without any H1N1 cases filling the place up.....

[Bowbiker]

I made my own vaccine............... by catching H1N1

Hey Jayhad,

You are the first I know of, to admit to having H1N1, besides my daughter's family doctor!

In my honest opinion, I think if you haven't had H1N1 by now you are either resistant to it, immunized by the vaccine, or by having some form of H1N1 in the past( maybe as far back as fifteen years ago). In the past three weeks I have seen a few different people(friends and family) with a lot of different symptoms(rashes, flu symptoms, pneumonia, my wife got very weak and just about fainted while out shopping, lung issues on a two year old, and in my case, a re-occurance of kidney failure.........maybe would have been worse if I hadn't had the seasonal flu shot every year for the past ten years?

I don't think any of the above cases are considering the possibility of H1N1.... except me.

 

Just my 2 cents... any opinions?

 

Regards,

Dick Seymour

 

 

[fishinhogdaddy]

As a health care support worker, I have been in contact with a nurse who is giving these vaccines.

First some facts from her:

1. The vaccine has an "inactivated virus" as part of the serum and you can not get the flu from the vaccine.

2. The vaccine base has the same components contained in the vaccines given to Europeans for flu type "A and B" since 1997. Since that time, there have been over 42 million of these shots given to people. So it is safe and documents as such.

3. According to my nurse friend, most the sicknesses (flus) that have been reported are of the H1N1 variety and not "A or B' type.

4. The most serious symptom of the H1N1 appears to be "problems with breathing". Her advice, if you are sick and think you have the flu and experience difficulty breathing, GO TO A HEALTH CARE FACILITY IMMEDIATELY!!

5. This strain of flu seems to be attacking pregnant women and children under 13 years with the most severe symptoms.

As I said, I am a health care support worker. I am no expert on this. I am only relaying information that I believe to be true so more of you can make a more informed decision on if you want/should have the shot as a preventitive measure.

One in four are predicated to come down with symptoms of this particular strain of flu. It's your choice......

FHD

[Din]

Just increase your vitamin D intake to at least 2,000 units a day along with all the other precautions...

 

If you get the flu, give yourself an injection of vitamin B12 that you can get over the counter.

 

Government is stuck with hundreds of thousands of vaccines now that a majority of people are saying they aren't getting it. What are they to do? Scare the public to cover their asses, so they don't look like fools when they spent billions on a vaccine that was never used....

 

 

[TerryH]

Just increase your vitamin D intake to at least 2,000 units a day along with all the other precautions...

 

If you get the flu, give yourself an injection of vitamin B12 that you can get over the counter.

 

Government is stuck with hundreds of thousands of vaccines now that a majority of people are saying they aren't getting it. What are they to do? Scare the public to cover their asses, so they don't look like fools when they spent billions on a vaccine that was never used....

I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but my reaction after reading this is quite simple: Bull Sh!t Terry

 

[fishinhogdaddy]

I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but my reaction after reading this is quite simple: Bull Sh!t Terry

I tend to agree.

FHD

[Smitty]

Just increase your vitamin D intake to at least 2,000 units a day along with all the other precautions...

 

If you get the flu, give yourself an injection of vitamin B12 that you can get over the counter.

 

Government is stuck with hundreds of thousands of vaccines now that a majority of people are saying they aren't getting it. What are they to do? Scare the public to cover their asses, so they don't look like fools when they spent billions on a vaccine that was never used....

 

Din:

 

There has to be a measure of responsibility if you are going to post something like this. Let's leave aside your Orwellian paranoia for a second.

 

Where you coming from on your advice on the vitamin D and B12? Do you have a medical degree? Are you an expert? Can you cite a professional, vetted source for this advice? Have you long experience in a natural, homeopathy approach? What is the sound basis for this advice?

 

If you have no expertise, then don't offer it on an internet board. H1N1 is serious issue, that should be treated as such, whether you think the gov't is engaged in fear mongering or not. The premise of this thread was the author was trying to sort through confusing information. You can't seriously expect people to measure your advice against those of the medical community as if they're equal. What qualifies you to provide advice counter to the majority of the medical community?

 

Telling people to "just" get some vitamins, is the very pinnacle of irresponsibility, unless there are sound reasons for this advice. If you have sound reasons for this advice, than lets hear them. If you are a reasonable person, I'm sure you won't mind sharing why those 2 particular vitamins (why not vitamin C for instance; lots of people chug those...) are the "catch all" to avoid this illness.

 

Smitty

 

 

[canadensis]

Just increase your vitamin D intake to at least 2,000 units a day along with all the other precautions...

 

If you get the flu, give yourself an injection of vitamin B12 that you can get over the counter.

 

Government is stuck with hundreds of thousands of vaccines now that a majority of people are saying they aren't getting it. What are they to do? Scare the public to cover their asses, so they don't look like fools when they spent billions on a vaccine that was never used....

 

Well Din I don't know if you have driven by one of the clinics, but looks like lots are lining up to get the vaccine. Soon (hopefully) it will be available at doctors offices and pharmacies. Once you don't have to wait outside for a day I am sure more will get on board with getting the vaccine for themselves and their families.

 

And I have never heard of a pharmacy selling injectable vitamin shots over the counter..

 

I am curious if all those against vaccines also opt not to get their dogs rabies and parvo vaccines?

 

Any vaccine is no different than an insurance policy. The odds are very unlikely that your home will burn to the ground but you would be a fool not to insure your home an contents from fire.

[Din]

I have spoken to several MD's, spoken to my sister who is a nurse and is on the front lines and she has relayed information that she has seen and heard to me. Spoken to several Chiropractor's (not just Canadian ones), who are Dr.'s and recieve just as much education as MD's. So I have a been exposed to several different opinions and have made my judgement on what information I have gathered myself, not just what the media decided to tell me.

 

RE: Vitamin D: (just one example, several more out there, if you choose to look and not wait to be spoon fed by the media)

 

"There will always be threats of flu pandemics, real or created, and potentially toxic vaccines will continue to be peddled as the solution until enough people realize there’s a better, safer, saner way.

 

You can break free of the drug-solution trap right now by following these natural health principles. I have not caught a flu in over two decades, and you can avoid it too, without getting vaccinated, by following these simple guidelines, which will keep your immune system in optimal working order so that you're far less likely to acquire the infection to begin with.

 

Optimize your vitamin D levels. As I've previously reported, optimizing your vitamin D levels is one of the absolute best strategies for avoiding infections of ALL kinds, and vitamin D deficiency is likely the TRUE culprit behind the seasonality of the flu -- not the flu virus itself.

 

This is probably the single most important and least expensive action you can take.

 

I would STRONGLY urge you to have your vitamin D level monitored to confirm your levels are at a therapeutic level, which is between 50-65 ng/ml. I also recommend using a reliable vitamin D lab like Lab Corp, if you’re in the U.S. Sometime this fall, we hope to launch a vitamin D testing service through Lab Corp that will allow you to have your vitamin D levels checked at your local blood drawing facility, and relatively inexpensively.

 

If you are coming down with flu like symptoms and have not been on vitamin D you can take doses of 50,000 units a day for three days to treat the acute infection. Some researchers like Dr. Cannell, believe the dose could even be as high as 1,000 units per pound of body weight for three days.

 

However, most of Dr. Cannell's work was with seasonal and not pandemic flu. If your body has never been exposed to the antigens there is chance that the vitamin D might not work. However the best bet is to maintain healthy levels of vitamin D around 60 ng/ml."

 

-source from mercola.com

 

B12:

 

Most naturopaths, homeopaths will have B12 at there disposal to give people, as well several multi vitamins have b12 in them.

 

Again, one of many sources....

 

"Vitamin B12 deficiency leads to reduced numbers of white blood cells which causes increased susceptibility to infection. Recent research has shown that elderly patients with low vitamin B12 levels have impaired antibody response to bacterial vaccine..."

 

In essence, from my understanding and research, B12 will help boost your immune system...

 

 

Take a read around, and open your mind, that not everything needs to be treated by drugs.

 

I never said "just" take some vitamins. I said do so along with the other precautions (proper rest, lots of water, washing hands, etc), so don't call me irresponsible. If anything you are irresponsible by not listening to both sides of the argument.

 

Take my advice/opinion or not, I don't care, just don't want more people who are not completely informed to think there is only one solution to a "problem".

 

I know two people who have had H1N1 and have come out the other hand just fine. One who planned to get the shot, the other had no intention of doing so. They both increased their vitamin D and B12, and are no worse for the wear.

 

 

 

Din:

 

There has to be a measure of responsibility if you are going to post something like this. Let's leave aside your Orwellian paranoia for a second.

 

Where you coming from on your advice on the vitamin D and B12? Do you have a medical degree? Are you an expert? Can you cite a professional, vetted source for this advice? Have you long experience in a natural, homeopathy approach? What is the sound basis for this advice?

 

If you have no expertise, then don't offer it on an internet board. H1N1 is serious issue, that should be treated as such, whether you think the gov't is engaged in fear mongering or not. The premise of this thread was the author was trying to sort through confusing information. You can't seriously expect people to measure your advice against those of the medical community as if they're equal. What qualifies you to provide advice counter to the majority of the medical community?

 

Telling people to "just" get some vitamins, is the very pinnacle of irresponsibility, unless there are sound reasons for this advice. If you have sound reasons for this advice, than lets hear them. If you are a reasonable person, I'm sure you won't mind sharing why those 2 particular vitamins (why not vitamin C for instance; lots of people chug those...) are the "catch all" to avoid this illness.

 

Smitty

 

[Din]

Another example of the media's influence and controlling what we hear...

 

Watched a CTV special they had on this week regarding the flu.

One lady a homepath, the other an ifectious disease specialist I believe.

 

The question was asked if the vaccine was safe or not.

Infectious disease guy spoke first, homeopath second, infectious guy was given a chance to rebuttle what she said, but they wouldn't let her defend against his claims afterwards...saying that they could "talk all day about it".

 

If the average user did not fully understand all the options and treatments out there, they would be left thinking that the homeopaths way was less effective...maybe it is maybe it's not, but the user wasn't given all the facts to make an educated decision.

[Din]

Place to buy your B12 injections online...

 

http://www.77canadianpharmacy.com/buy-Vitamin_B12.php

[ÜberFly]

Din,

 

Wow!! I have to challenge this one!! Not for the fact that Chiros have a lot of training, but one can't compare a Chiro's training to a "Medical Specialist", i.e., Allergist, Respirologist, Cardiologist, Pathologist, a Family Physician/General Practioner, or even a Homeopath, - totally different focus.

 

P

 

 

Spoken to several Chiropractor's (not just Canadian ones), who are Dr.'s and recieve just as much education as MD's.

[Din]

I agree that they are not specialists. But they do have to learn all about the body, it's functions, signs of diseases and what the diseases are, as well as treating them, etc. More than most people realize and see..."because they just crack necks". So their opinions do carry some weight.

 

Two of my family members are Chiropractors, so I know the amount of education that they recieve.

 

 

Din,

 

Wow!! I have to challenge this one!! Not for the fact that Chiros have a lot of training, but one can't compare a Chiro's training to a Medical "Specialist",per se, i.e., Allergist, Respirologist, Cardiologist, Pathologist, even a Homeopath - totally different focus/specialty!!

 

P

[Din]

Ingredients of the Canadian approved vaccine:

 

Thimerosal,a mercury derivative is added as preservative. Each dose contains 2.5 micrograms of mercury. Other ingredients include: squalene, vitamin E, polysorbate 80 and trace amounts of egg proteins, formaldehyde, sodium deoxycholate and sucrose

 

 

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/prodpharma/...ccin-eng.php#a5

 

 

Can't tell me that formaldehyde is good for the body.....

[TerryH]

Din, if you're getting your information from chiropractors, homeopaths, and naturopaths, that explains everything, as far as I'm concerned. Don't believe everyone with a doctor in front of their name -- their credibility depends on how and where they got their degree. As it happens, I have a PhD, but it's in Mechanical Engineering. Therefore, despite being legally entitled to use the title "Dr" (which I rarely if ever do) I have absolutely no expertise in medicine, and the important thing is that I know it. That's why I'm very careful in checking the sources of all the information I'm getting on the H1N1 issue. I would suggest when it comes to public health, virology, and microbiology, that chiropractors, homeopaths, and naturopaths are not qualified either. On the other hand, my training and experience allows me to sift through conflicting information, to assess the credibility of various sources, and to come to an informed personal decision. Basically, that's what we all have to do -- I'm just saying, watch where you're getting your information.

 

Many people are saying the information on H1N1 is confusing. Well, I've found the information from the medical people to be anything but confusing. The confusion is coming from homeopaths, naturopaths, quacks, and hollywood nutbars. If you tune out all those sources, guess what? -- no confusion.

 

As an aside, I have heard the naturopath argument (repeated elsewhere in this thread) that a strong immune system is the key to avoiding the disease. I assume that's where you're coming from with the vitamin D and B12 recommendation. I would point out that the medical people agree a strong immune system is good, however, they also say that it will not prevent you from getting the disease if you are exposed. Furthermore, there is some concern in the medical community (as reported in today's papers) that the severe cases in young people may be due to their immune system reacting too strongly.

 

Terry

[ÜberFly]

Yes they may receive some, but it not nearly as extensive <fact> - I to know chiro's personally...

 

P

 

P.S. I'm not debating chiros, my comment/reply is related to their training/education as it compares to "medical practioners"... So please don't misinterpret/misconstrue.

 

I agree that they are not specialists. But they do have to learn all about the body, it's functions, signs of diseases and what the diseases are, as well as treating them, etc. More than most people realize and see..."because they just crack necks". So their opinions do carry some weight.

 

Two of my family members are Chiropractors, so I know the amount of education that they recieve.