Should A Household In Calgary Be Allowed To Have A Reasonable Number Of Chickens

[Guest Sundancefisher]

There is an article in the paper about keeping back yard chickens. Vancouver just adopted the right to have chickens...under certain restrictions...just hens, no roosters, limited number etc.

 

Any thoughts?

 

I always thought raising fly tying birds would be a cool hobby...

[admin]

Can you say cheap hackle....

[SanJuanWorm]

If my neighbor raised chickens then i'd start baiting hawks.

[canadensis]

I am sure if you have been in a chicken coop with as few as 6 birds you will vote no.

 

Talk to bylaw and animal services in this city; they have enough to worry about without people being able to own/raise farm animals in their yards.

 

Just because Vancouver does something does not mean we need to follow.

 

So you own a hybrid car, recycle some of the packaging from your gluttonous lifestyle, maybe raise your own chickens; But you work for Encana, drive to work from Springbank because your 5000s.f home does not have a bus route near and too far to cycle, have a cottage on the lake in BC that you drive to every weekend in the summer and a condo in Arizona that you fly to in the winter. This is the status quo for many here.

 

Gotta love the hypocracy of living in an oil town where many have bellied up to the trough, yet they still want to be percieved as eco friendly by a few actions that are percieved as doing the right thing. The chicken raising is just window dressing, as most green initiatives are for the majority.

[dryfly]

EDIT: canadensis is "spot on" on this matter..well done canadensis... it is pure hypocrisy and yuppie, eco weenie BS...

 

Another example of "unintended consequences"

 

It is a grand eco-weenie scheme to go "back to the land." The bylaw will crash and burn if passed.

 

Just a matter of time before:

1) There is another bird flu "scare" (real or imagined) and folks will have to kill their birds and they will have to be incinerated at city (taxpayer expense)

2) They start getting abused and PETA and the Humane Society get involved. Chicken-rancher wannabees will get ticketed for animal abuse.

3) They start dying when it is -38°C .. free-range and chickens and winter should not be used in the same sentence.

4) People realize they are a pain in the arse and start abandoning them.

5) They start dying on people and folks start leaving them in the garbage cans when it is 32°C and they start stinking. Yum rotting dead meat.

6) They start attracting coyotes and skunks.

7) Neighbors start complaining about the bloody noise and stink..and many people will NOT go about this right and keep them properly housed.

8) Store-bought chicken is inexpensive (and safe) and people will realize it is a helluva lot less expensive to buy 'em at Costco than raise them.

9) Someone will not look after their flocks properly and sooner or later someone will get sick from eating improperly handled/killed chickens.

 

All or some of the above WILL happen sooner or later. Guaranteed.

 

It is bloody joke doomed for complete failure. Just a matter of time before it is rescinded.

 

Cheers!

 

Clive

[slingshotz]

The chickens are (or should be) only raised for eggs they produce and not for the meat. There is a BIG difference if you raise a few chickens to have fresh eggs everyday and a bunch of them for meat. It's not really worth raising them for the meat unless you raise a lot of them and then you get into the problems of smell, noise, etc. I personally can't wait for the day I can have a few chickens in the backyard for fresh eggs but I honestly believe that there's just too many uninformed people in Calgary that will veto the idea. I've lived in cities where people kept a few chickens for eggs and if they are kept right, you never ever know that there are chickens living next door. I've lived in houses where people kept friendly chickens in the backyard and they are a delight to have around. There are some wonderful chicken breeds out there that are very quiet, make great pets and have great eggs on top of it. Generally all people ever hear of chickens is all the bad things, that they smell, are loud, carry diseases and attract vermin. I honestly believed that too until I started living and working with chickens many years ago. If this was a discussion about banning dogs (or many other animals for that matter) and you made a list of all the bad things that come with irresponsible dog owners most likely people would ban them too based on that list.

 

The amount of houses here that have dogs that crap everywhere, smell and bark all day don't seem to be enough of a concern. Yes you can call bylaw services but I have never personally had or heard of many successes with them solving bad dog owners. However, it only takes a few chicken growers that have no clue what they are doing to screw things royally up (but the same can be said of dog owners). In Calgary you do also have the added problem of the weather and chickens will have to be killed before winter unless you have a proper heated home for them or you take them inside. I'm not bashing dog owners, I have a dog myself and the majority of dog owners are good with their dogs.

 

For many people this is not about being eco-friendly or jumping on a fad, it's simply about knowing where your food comes from, what it's fed, how well it's treated and having the freshest ingredients possible. I know I'd love to have a trout pond in my backyard too for a fresh pan fry instead of buying fish shipped in from abroad grown with human garbage.

[Harps]

On the otherhand, It's nice to raise a few chickens over a summer to let you know that you can....

 

It's not about green, it's about a sustaining lifestyle and the empowerment that comes from knowing you can raise your own meat (that's a bad phrase).

 

1) There is another bird flu "scare" (real or imagined) and folks will have to kill their birds and they will have to be incinerated at city (taxpayer expense)

*Isn't avian flu an issue due to overcrowded stock conditions?

 

2) They start getting abused and PETA and the Humane Society get involved

* And PETA isn't involved in the horrible conditions at chicken farms.

 

3) They start dying when it is -38°C .. free-range and chickens and winter should not be used in the same sentence.

* Some folks can bring them in and some folks can cull in the falll... raise them over the summer then eat.

 

4) People realize they are a pain in the arse and start abandoning them.

* Or sell or eat them.

 

5) They start dying on people and folks start leaving them in the garbage cans when it is 32°C and they start stinking. Yum rotting dead meat.

* Have you seen what is in dumpsters anyways?!? Rotten meat, wasted food, dippers, etc.

 

6) They start attracting coyotes and skunks.

* That are already in the cities eating the crap in the dumpsters.

 

7) Neighbors start complaining about the bloody noise and stink..and many people will NOT go about this right and keep them properly housed.

* Neighbours will complain about you're firepit, dog, cat, loud car, tv, parties, etc. Keep hens and it should be fine... or at least no worse than existing city life.

 

8) Chicken-rancher wannabees start getting ticketed for animal abuse.

* They're not sheep...

 

9) Store-bought chicken is inexpensive (and safe) and people will realize it is a helluva lot less expensive to buy 'em at Costco than raise them.

* It' not always about the money... and some folks don't believe store bought chickens are safe.

 

10) Someone will not look after their flocks properly and sooner or later someone will get sick from eating improperly handled/killed chickens.

* People get sick from poorly handled food in restaurants. At least this way you only have yourself to blame, start to finish.

 

Raising chickens isn't for everyone, and shouldn't be, but as a society it is a good idea to put those usless acrages to work producing food for the masses in the urban centers. things are going to change so that local production becomes more important... to the point where it is all we will have.

As oil prices rise, we will need local food production to offset transportation costs.

Really how long is buying packaged food from China going to be viable?

 

 

I envision a future with green roofs on most buildings (many with edible plants). Urban gardens in every yard. AND

Large fly fishing ponds attached to aquaponic operations (water from fish tanks gets pushed thru greenhouses with hydroponic grow ops).

 

 

Or I just want cheap hackle.

 

 

*EDIT* What Slingshotz said!! Great post!

[canadensis]

Some valid points on the "pro" side, but really if you want to know where your food comes from it is as easy as going to an urban farmers market every weekend to do your shoping. lots of "local" farmers that can supply you with all the fresh eggs, meat, and seasonal vegetables you will ever need. No bylaw that says you cannot turn your entire yard into a garden either. After you go to the farmers market and make these connections you can find local meat, eggs and dairy within 15 minutes of any quadrant of this citys limits so there is a myriad of option on this front.

 

I have been to countries where there are farm animals running around where people reside. The reason is simple, they do not have a reliable system of abattoirs and limited or no refrigeration. These are the same countries where you can still catch the plague, and all other kinds of nasties because of the lack of sanitary living conditions.

 

Hey if you really want organic meat and want to know where it comes from go shoot an elk, moose or a few deer every year. You can shoot enough deer within an hour of Calgary to fill the freezer. You will also get enough hair to tie a million caddis bugs...

[Harps]

Some valid points on the "pro" side, but really if you want to know where your food comes from it is as easy as going to an urban farmers market every weekend to do your shoping. lots of "local" farmers that can supply you with all the fresh eggs, meat, and seasonal vegetables you will ever need. No bylaw that says you cannot turn your entire yard into a garden either. After you go to the farmers market and make these connections you can find local meat, eggs and dairy within 15 minutes of any quadrant of this citys limits so there is a myriad of option on this front.

 

I have been to countries where there are farm animals running around where people reside. The reason is simple, they do not have a reliable system of abattoirs and limited or no refrigeration. These are the same countries where you can still catch the plague, and all other kinds of nasties because of the lack of sanitary living conditions.

 

Hey if you really want organic meat and want to know where it comes from go shoot an elk, moose or a few deer every year. You can shoot enough deer within an hour of Calgary to fill the freezer. You will also get enough hair to tie a million caddis bugs...

 

Local is the way to go and more people should be at the farmers markets and looking for local produce (they sell S. Alberta beef in Save-on- Diamond Willow Ranches). But it may not be enough unless folks start conserving and supplementing and learning about the system. Plus hunting won't supply the bloated urban centers.

[slingshotz]

Some valid points on the "pro" side, but really if you want to know where your food comes from it is as easy as going to an urban farmers market every weekend to do your shoping. lots of "local" farmers that can supply you with all the fresh eggs, meat, and seasonal vegetables you will ever need. No bylaw that says you cannot turn your entire yard into a garden either. After you go to the farmers market and make these connections you can find local meat, eggs and dairy within 15 minutes of any quadrant of this citys limits so there is a myriad of option on this front.

 

I have been to countries where there are farm animals running around where people reside. The reason is simple, they do not have a reliable system of abattoirs and limited or no refrigeration. These are the same countries where you can still catch the plague, and all other kinds of nasties because of the lack of sanitary living conditions.

 

Hey if you really want organic meat and want to know where it comes from go shoot an elk, moose or a few deer every year. You can shoot enough deer within an hour of Calgary to fill the freezer. You will also get enough hair to tie a million caddis bugs...

 

I love the farmers market but I wish there was one everyday and have you ever seen some of the overinflated prices at the CFM?!? I do applaud the efforts of the local farmers though and how much more local good ingredients are available now and really don't mind paying more for the food. Just have to be wary at the CFM as there are vendors there that take advantage of the high prices there to supply a substandard product. And damn I guess Finland, UK, Australia and NZ are pretty nasty, guess I didn't notice when I was living there and luckily I didn't catch anything there. And places in LA, San Francisco, Connecticut, Utah must be pretty nasty too....although some of that is probably true due to the people living there lol

 

Yup, I agree with the hunting your own meat and that's why I'm all for hunting

 

http://www.urbanchickens.net/2009/04/defan...inst-urban.html

[canadensis]

Plus hunting won't supply the bloated urban centers.

 

Either will passing a bylaw that lets city folk own a couple of laying hens...

 

[Guest Sundancefisher]

I too agree with some posts on both sides.

 

I read that 3 chickens is enough weekly eggs for family of 5. Not sure the right amount. As a kid I help out on the aunt's farm and cared for chickens daily. There were about 40. They were messy and the rooster was noisy. I think 3 would not smell and not be too noisy. Neighbourhood kids would love them to death. We have very few cats roaming around anymore. We have a number of dogs that get out of their yards and visit our garbage bags from time to time. There is dog droppings on the front lawn and barking dogs throughout the day. I can't see chickens really being worse than any other pet. Even the wild rabbits and deer cause more trouble.

 

The point about weather etc. makes me wonder if a back yard chicken coop would be a summer thing rather than all winter. Otherwise it would need a little heater. Not hard to do.

 

For the limited number of people that would do this...it would be interesting to see how it works out. I suspect some people hate it that I have a back yard vegetable garden that is messy and not as pretty as flowers...but oh well. Can't please em all.

[Heimdallr]

Either will passing a bylaw that lets city folk own a couple of laying hens...

 

You're confusing the two issues though. People having gardens or laying hens is a good way to start personal accountability for your food and to increase local reliance.

 

The reference to hunting not feeding all the city folk is because hunting will never be a viable system because our population is too large whereas if everyone had a garden that could at least alleviate a ton of our reliance on foreign fruits and vegetables.

 

There are two levels to the issue. The first is a simple lifestyle choice and the second is part of a growing concern around global food prices and global interdependence.

[duanec]

But you work for Encana, drive to work from Springbank because your 5000s.f home does not have a bus route near and too far to cycle, have a cottage on the lake in BC that you drive to every weekend in the summer and a condo in Arizona that you fly to in the winter.

and i'll be goddammed if my neighbors think they are gonna start raising chicken(s) that'll crap all over my m5 beemer that's parked outside as my 3 car garage is full?

what about a dairy cow...ya know, for fresh cream for my latte every morning?

or a couple of sheep to keep the backyard putting green nice & short...and i can use the wool too as maybe i macrame my own jean shorts.

 

sorry man, that's never gonna fly here, this is not the left coast.

when i see the urban/community garden concept taking firm hold i'll believe there's a chance of seeing a a chicken coop in springbank, or lac bonav, or mnt royal....etc.

[Guest Sundancefisher]

what about a dairy cow...ya know, for fresh cream for my latte every morning?

 

*** Mod Edit *** Link removed Adult content.

 

BBT

[Guest Sundancefisher]

*** Mod Edit *** Link removed Adult content.

 

BBT

 

LOL... That clip was actually on channel 8 the other day...prime time. One of them bloopers shows.

 

oh well.

 

Sorry if it offended...it was not on the adult content section in Youtube

[bigbowtrout]

Just following the rules and trying to keep the site family friendly. But it was a great clip and I'm sure if anyone wants to see it they could PM me or you and we would share.

[Guest Sundancefisher]

Just following the rules and trying to keep the site family friendly. But it was a great clip and I'm sure if anyone wants to see it they could PM me or you and we would share.

 

no problem. Now that I watched the whole thing...you do see something :-)

 

I don't recall that on the TV but the clip was definitely the same.

 

No harm...no fishing.

[kungfool]

A bunch of chickens, a bunch or barking dogs, whats the difference?

[hydropsyche]

When I moved into my house in Renfrew about 10 yrs ago, I discovered my neighbour had been raising them for years (Colourful Italian. I like Italians. He passed away. Chickens are gone now). He didn't do it for trendy reasons. About 6 bantam's and a rooster. We heard the rooster every once in a while and I liked the sound. He kept them in a little coup that was heated. I don't think he brought them in during the winter. That would be creepy.

 

I've heard of people keeping pigs as pets. And rabbits. And gerbils. And dogs. All edible in some cultures so can be classified as stock. The arguments against chickens can be used on all of these.

 

I agree a line has to be drawn somewhere but I don’t think a few chickens will turn Calgary into a third world. If it gets out of hand, then rethink it. If a neighbour complains to by-law, they investigate. (Have you heard about the cat lady down the street??)

 

Now fire pits……those should be banned outright (just kidding).

 

[Highlander]

I used to keep chickens for eggs and meat. No problems and no complaints.

 

You Albertans are turning into pampered city-folk. You may as well be from Toronto!!!!!

[dube]

While I realize this is far different than the city of Calgary some friends of mine that live on the sunshine coast started raising chickens this spring. For now they are only raising them for eggs and it's a success. They have 8 and they are actually quite tame, they simply just cluck about. They are allowed out of the coop every morning to graze the yard and do some work to rid the gardens of pests and as the sun starts to set every day they will all in unison head back to the coop as if a bell goes off. I can't explain this but it's funny to watch, all of a sudden it's like "oh time to go" and next thing you know they are all in the pen.

They have 2 young kids, one 3 and the other 5 and both are getting right in there and handling the hens and getting a good education about livestock and food. It's exciting for them to come out in the morning to do some quick chores and check for eggs, more exciting say then wandering around a yard looking for dog *hit to pick up with a shovel. I think it's a good experience for a family.

 

Like I said the Sunshine Coast is a far cry from Calgary and they have a large lot and trees between them and their neighbors and I'm not really sure what this would look like on a small lot in the middle of the city. Keep in mind though, these are not your typical white fryers that you see being raised by the thousands at lilydale. These are smaller brown feathered critters that can produce some very nice eggs.

Also, just because the city might let this happen doesn't mean that every one and their dog will get chickens. It will be the hybrid driving, recycling, organic vegetable buying families who all ridicule aside would probably be responsible enough to pull this off. Of course there will be incidents and probably some fall out but as soon as the novelty wears off I think this could be a good thing for some families.

 

This idea seems extreme and has the potential for huge problems but just think 50 years ago this would have been normal, maybe not in the city but it was a way of life. I have a old lady that lives across the alley from me and every second thursday the "egg lady" comes in from the farm and brings 30 dozen eggs and all the old birds show up to pick up their order. You can't get eggs like these in a store.

 

As for the majority of people who like everything to come in neat little packages, they will stay that way and a few fresh eggs every morning won't be enough to convince them to take something like this on. I don't see it becoming hugely popular so I don't see a major problem with it.

 

Personally I would love to move to a more moderate climate where I could make more of my food local for more months of the year. I could get behind keeping a garden and light hobby farming and be able to say I know what I'm eating. It's a step in the right direction if you ask me.

[skearns]

Without invoking the NIMBY argument I am not sure there is a difference between raising chickens or raising homing pigeons. As a bird hunter I obviously have no affinity for any of our feathered friends. However there is gentleman in my Calgary neigborhood who has a fairly large pigeon coop on his property backing on to the alley. While it is a few blocks from our home and therefore we do not hear or smell the fowl neighbors, it is kind of neat seeing them fly around the area in formation during the summer. And until a few years ago there was a home in Highwood that kep two miniature horses in the backyard in a little red barn. They are gone now but my youngest daughter used to love driving down that alley to see the "guard ponies"....I don't think the chicken thing will fly in Cowtown...sk

[canadensis]

Again some very valid points on why it is no big deal to keep a few chickens as pets in the city. I guess if it makes the few hippies happy that actually go to the trouble then good on them. Once you take into account the feed, building and maintaining a coop, heating the coop, probably a break even deal at best. Anyways- what family eats 40-50 eggs per week?

 

If this passes council I bet it will be like a badge of honour in the hippy community if you actually do this- just like owning a hybrid. Our family has a little Toyota for running around in- gets the same or better mileage than 90% of the hybrids out there. If you account for the battery in the hybrid then I am ahead by a longshot in the whole carbon footprint thing, but I am not hippy cool without a new shiny hybrid in my front lane.

 

So lets see- We live in a small, older home (1200s.f.) that has been updated with new windows, high eff. Furnace, raise probably half of our veggies, I kill all my own meat every year; We definitely live within our means. My cheapness has made me way `greener` than most of the eco weenies that are just now starting to catch on to this new coolness now. And yes I wash my hair every day, wear deodorant, no dredlocks. Anyways, this is a whole other discussion.

 

[dryfly]

Harps said, "On the otherhand, It's nice to raise a few chickens over a summer to let you know that you can....It's not about green, it's about a sustaining lifestyle and the empowerment that comes from knowing you can raise your own meat"

 

That is mostly all valid. I don't buy the sustaining lifestyle argument because of the economies of scale in small operations like the backyard. BUT proving something to yourself is all good. Nothing wrong with that.

 

I think where most will fail will be in the dead of winter. ("Hon?! The power went out and chickens have no clucked since 4 AM!" )

 

Thinking one is saving the universe by spending $600 on a chicken coop to raise a few eggs will not save the universe.