Double Rated Rods...

[ÜberFly]

Gang,

 

What are the advantages (if there are advatages) with double weighted rods (eg, 5/6, 6/7, 7/8, etc.). Is it just me or does that just confuse things?! The different wts would totally change the load dynamics of the rod, wouldn't they?! I am aware that wts are pretty much recommendations, to begin with (other factors involved, casting style, line wt, type of fishing, etc.), no?! What's the score?!

 

Thanks,

 

Peter

[darrinhurst]

Good question!

 

I'd like to know the answer to this one too.......

[headscan]

I am aware that wts are pretty much recommendations, to begin with (other factors involved, casting style, line wt, type of fishing, etc.), no?!

The AFTMA rating is the grain weight for the first 30' of line. A 5wt can be 134-146 grains and a 6wt can be between 152-168 grains. So a 5/6 should be able to handle lines between 134 and 168 grains. Just look at it as a rod with a wider grain window. Or maybe just a marketing gimmick...

[ÜberFly]

Hey Marc,

 

So I understand what you have said - wider grain window, sure, but it would still load differently at either end of that window... So I guess it may or may not be more forgiving depending on the angler (their casting style) and what kind of "action" they want?! !

 

P

 

 

The AFTMA rating is the grain weight for the first 30' of line. A 5wt can be 134-146 grains and a 6wt can be between 152-168 grains. So a 5/6 should be able to handle lines between 134 and 168 grains. Just look at it as a rod with a wider grain window. Or maybe just a marketing gimmick...

 

[jack]

Oh goody, a fly rod design question!! "Headscan" is correct with regards to AFTMA ratings, although many fly rods "expand the AFTMA envelope", especially with fly rods over 9' in length. "Ratings" and even the "Common Cents" scale fall down due to a lack of updating to the parameters.

 

Most fly rods that are dual rated, (example: a 5/6wt) will maintain their action, without a noticeable change in loading and recovery with a lower weight WF line and a higher weight DT line. Most dual weight rods do not "overline" very well and tend to collapse under a real push while overlined. I personally despise dual rated rods, there is just no need for it. My design preference is to create a rod with two different tip sections, one rated a lower weight and one rated higher(patent pending, by the way). That way the rod can provide optimum performance for both weights.

j

[rehsifylf]

My design preference is to create a rod with two different tip sections, one rated a lower weight and one rated higher(patent pending, by the way). That way the rod can provide optimum performance for both weights.

j

 

Cool idea. Don't most blanks come as sets? How do you end up with two tip sections that fit?

[headscan]

My design preference is to create a rod with two different tip sections, one rated a lower weight and one rated higher(patent pending, by the way).

The Echo 2 rods come with two tips, but I think they're intended to be used with the same line. One tip is supposed to be for accuracy and the other for distance.

[ÜberFly]

Jack,

 

Ok I must be having a blond moment... So with the 5/6 that you used in your example, why would you use/choose a 5 wt vs 6 wt line - bigger fish, throwing nymphs/streamers?! Or just to have different "action"?! The dual rating should be able to handle bigger fish... I still don't "get it" (no cheeky comments, please!)!

 

P

 

Oh goody, a fly rod design question!! "Headscan" is correct with regards to AFTMA ratings, although many fly rods "expand the AFTMA envelope", especially with fly rods over 9' in length. "Ratings" and even the "Common Cents" scale fall down due to a lack of updating to the parameters.

 

Most fly rods that are dual rated, (example: a 5/6wt) will maintain their action, without a noticeable change in loading and recovery with a lower weight WF line and a higher weight DT line. Most dual weight rods do not "overline" very well and tend to collapse under a real push while overlined. I personally despise dual rated rods, there is just no need for it. My design preference is to create a rod with two different tip sections, one rated a lower weight and one rated higher(patent pending, by the way). That way the rod can provide optimum performance for both weights.

j

[maxwell]

the 5/6 dual rating will through a 5 or 6wt line almost equally aswell.. i have a 3.5 wt being built right now so i guess u could call it a 3/4 u dig? it can handle both lines resonable well but if oyur out of teh grian window too much it will collapse.. i think the dual rating like jack mentioned is dumb! because it u have a6wt with a 6wt line its fine and a 7wt line will slow the action down and a 5wt line will speed teh action up.. so all rods could be a dual action sort of.. most dual action rods ive seen are lower too mid range rods and i think its just a in between blank rather than calling it one or the other.. but u can make any rod really a 5/6 if its a 5wt and u fish 5wts for dries and 6wt lines for streamers..

[ÜberFly]

Max,

 

So what you are saying (indirectly) is that it's easier to have 2 rods ready to go - a 5 wt for dries &/or nymphs and a 6 wt for streamers (though buying just one 5/6, may be more economical, it's not as convenient)...

 

Thanks,

 

P

 

l

the 5/6 dual rating will through a 5 or 6wt line almost equally aswell.. i have a 3.5 wt being built right now so i guess u could call it a 3/4 u dig? it can handle both lines resonable well but if oyur out of teh grian window too much it will collapse.. i think the dual rating like jack mentioned is dumb! because it u have a6wt with a 6wt line its fine and a 7wt line will slow the action down and a 5wt line will speed teh action up.. so all rods could be a dual action sort of.. most dual action rods ive seen are lower too mid range rods and i think its just a in between blank rather than calling it one or the other.. but u can make any rod really a 5/6 if its a 5wt and u fish 5wts for dries and 6wt lines for streamers..

[maxwell]

its not either.. if u want a presentation taper for dries and a overlined line for punching out distance with bigger flies just do that..... get a 6wt rio trout II or something like that and a pike or bass taper for the big nasties and your laughin.... all of my rods have 2-4 lines for specific situations.. i dotn really understand teh dual rated rods and teh purpose.. other than the grain window is in teh middle of 2 aftma ratings.. so they call it a 5/6 kind of like my 3 1/2 wt.. i will have a 3wt for dries and a 4wt with a thicker front taper for hopper dropper/small nymph rig stuff... its easeir too have 2 rods rigged up but cheaper just too have a few spools of line or even better shooting heads and slickshooter on one spool my opti runner i use for my 6wt 8wt single hander and 7wt double hander.. just bring the few lines i need for the stick im suing that day! ta hell with a bunch of spools n what not just one dope reel that can be used for all!

[jack]

"why would you use/choose a 5 wt vs 6 wt line - bigger fish, throwing nymphs/streamers?! Dry fly and changing to streamers or nymphs, or to combat wind. The idea is a more universal tool, a more delicate 5wt tip and a faster action 6wt tip. Not just a line weight casting ability, but a change of "action" also.

The dual tipped rod that was designed last winter is for small streams. It's an 8ft 4pc with two tips, a #3 and a #4. Testing it this summer, #3 was used in early morning with small dries, then when the day heated up and the fish went down, I switched over to the 4wt to high stick czech nymphs and beat the damn interior plateau afternoon winds.

j

[ÜberFly]

Jack,

 

No sorry, not inquiring about your (pending) design, but the 5/6 dual wt...

 

P

 

"why would you use/choose a 5 wt vs 6 wt line - bigger fish, throwing nymphs/streamers?! Dry fly and changing to streamers or nymphs, or to combat wind. The idea is a more universal tool, a more delicate 5wt tip and a faster action 6wt tip. Not just a line weight casting ability, but a change of "action" also.

The dual tipped rod that was designed last winter is for small streams. It's an 8ft 4pc with two tips, a #3 and a #4. Testing it this summer, #3 was used in early morning with small dries, then when the day heated up and the fish went down, I switched over to the 4wt to high stick czech nymphs and beat the damn interior plateau afternoon winds.

j

 

[ÜberFly]

Max, I get what you're saying but my intial inquiry was related to the statement you made "i dotn really understand teh dual rated rods" - which was my point... Why have one rod you have to keep switching the rigs up with 2 different lines/spools (taking up time) when you can have 2 rods pre-loaded...

 

So I guess it's one of those questions that cannot be answered (very easily), other then for different presentations (as previously mentioned)...

 

Thanks,

 

P

 

P.S. Maybe I'm just complicating the issue (sorry if that's the case)

 

P.S.S. And with that my friends, I just hit 1000 posts!!!

 

 

its not either.. if u want a presentation taper for dries and a overlined line for punching out distance with bigger flies just do that..... get a 6wt rio trout II or something like that and a pike or bass taper for the big nasties and your laughin.... all of my rods have 2-4 lines for specific situations.. i dotn really understand teh dual rated rods and teh purpose.. other than the grain window is in teh middle of 2 aftma ratings.. so they call it a 5/6 kind of like my 3 1/2 wt.. i will have a 3wt for dries and a 4wt with a thicker front taper for hopper dropper/small nymph rig stuff... its easeir too have 2 rods rigged up but cheaper just too have a few spools of line or even better shooting heads and slickshooter on one spool my opti runner i use for my 6wt 8wt single hander and 7wt double hander.. just bring the few lines i need for the stick im suing that day! ta hell with a bunch of spools n what not just one dope reel that can be used for all!

[DrBullet]

Max, I get what you're saying but my intial inquiry was related to the statement you made "i dotn really understand teh dual rated rods" - which was my point... Why have one rod you have to keep switching the rigs up with 2 different lines/spools (taking up time) when you can have 2 rods pre-loaded...

 

So I guess it's one of those questions that cannot be answered (very easily), other then for different presentations (as previously mentioned)...

 

Thanks,

 

P

 

P.S. Maybe I'm just complicating the issue (sorry if that's the case)

 

P.S.S. And with that my friends, I just hit 1000 posts!!!

 

Wow...you guys can sure talk fly fishing! I jut figured that a 5/6 wt could handle either a 5 or 6 wt line but maybe less line out of the 6 wt and you'd get more out of it if you were putting out more 5wt line. Seems to me I've used an 8wt line on a supposed 6wt (and vice versa) and it fired out just fine....I'm obviously a fly fishing Philistine! Probably why I catch sod all too...

 

Can anyone really tell the difference between half a rating??!!

[maxwell]

its easier too have 2 rods riggerd for speed of changing rigs uber but ide rather just fish one the day i plan to fish.. rip on out and swap out lines if need be.. only takes a minute or two...... i use to carry 2 and even 3 rods on the bow at one time but its just a pain in teh ass.. getting more n more lightweight each year..... this year i went with a hip pack a few dozen flies i intend too use on a said day and the rod too target the fish i wana fish.. maybe a line if i want a different presentation.... i dont bring anything but bull trout stuff the days i hunt em.. same with teh days i want too stalk small stream trout on dries. i can move faster n cover more water that way.. and its not as much of a pain in the ass compared too a backpack n loads of gear for 50 millino situations i probably wont capitalize on anyway.. but like u said its a question that cannot be answered or has more than one answer.. why buy a switch when u can carry a spey n single hander? same ideal!

[jack]

Jack,

 

No sorry, not inquiring about your (pending) design, but the 5/6 dual wt...

 

P

 

Sorry, got sidetracked. That is a stillwater rod. 5wt for normal everyday and the change up to 6wt for punching afternoon winds.

 

I'm not a real fan of two rods, rigged either. Not interested in attaching a second rod to the side of my pontoon(something ELSE to snag a line?) or packing a spare rod down to a river(hell, I pack enough junk around !). Couple of boxes of flies, two reels/lines, some tips and lunch in a pack, that's enough.

j

 

[ÜberFly]

Thanks Jack and Max! Yeah I guess it's a balance between convenience and portability...

 

Cheers,

 

P

 

Sorry, got sidetracked. That is a stillwater rod. 5wt for normal everyday and the change up to 6wt for punching afternoon winds.

 

I'm not a real fan of two rods, rigged either. Not interested in attaching a second rod to the side of my pontoon(something ELSE to snag a line?) or packing a spare rod down to a river(hell, I pack enough junk around !). Couple of boxes of flies, two reels/lines, some tips and lunch in a pack, that's enough.

j

 

[DutchDryfly]

Jack is almost right, but he got confused with the WF and DT.

The double rating is an "old" rating from when the fishing was either done with a DT or WF line.

A 5/6 means that it will load correctly with a DT 5 or a WF 6.

This is because the first 30 feet will be of the same weight according to the AFTMA rating.

But if you extend your line beyond that magical 30 feet, the running line of a DT is much heavier then the running line of a WF.

So to compensate the heavier running line of the DT you need to go with the lower figure and if you like a WF you have to go with the higher figure.

 

It is not as complicated at all, but who is still fishing with a DT?

[Taco]

I'm late to this discussion but depending on what I want the rod to do I have been known to go up or down 3 line wts of the manufacturers stated wt class.

 

http://www.flymartonline.com/modules.php?n...icle&sid=14

 

And DDF... given the reputation of my Fryslân/Nederlân ancestry I like DT line... twice the line @ half the cost

 

 

 

[Wolfie]

I'm late to this discussion but depending on what I want the rod to do I have been known to go up or down 3 line wts of the manufacturers stated wt class.

 

http://www.flymartonline.com/modules.php?n...icle&sid=14

 

And DDF... given the reputation of my Fryslân/Nederlân ancestry I like DT line... twice the line @ half the cost

 

 

pretty good report Taco...............Wolfie

[bloom]

I actually like DT lines for anything 4wt or smaller. I cut a lot of them in half and store the other half for later. Don't find a big casting distance as everything that small is dries usually.

 

Too me, line ratings are a 'recommendation'. Try them out with different lines for different situations. For my 2 wt, I use a 3 and 2wt line evenly. For bigger waters where I'm making longer casts, it's a 2 wt. For small creeks, it's a 3 wt.

 

Have a rod I also didn't really like much as a 4 wt...little sluggish for how I wanted to use it (for me), but when I put a 3 wt line on it...it made all the difference in the world. Also have 10' 3 wt (Dan Craft FT) that fishes really well with a 4 wt line.

[DutchDryfly]

And DDF... given the reputation of my Fryslân/Nederlân ancestry I like DT line... twice the line @ half the cost

 

 

Taco, only when you cut the line in half before you spool it onto your reel.

[Taco]

I do cut it in half........... but only when I want to load a 5 or 6 wt line on a 2/3 wt reel :D

[DonAndersen]

Guys,

 

Fly rods are supposed to be rated according to the AFTMA standards of 30' of line.

 

Wt. Grains Grains/foot

@ 30'

 

3 100 3.333

4 120 4.0

5 140 4.67

6 160 5.33

7 185 6.17

8 210 7.0

 

3 wt @ 140 grs./3.33 = 42'

4 wt @ 140 grs./4.0 = 35'

5 wt @ 140 grs./4.67 = 29.98'

6 wt. @ 140 grs/5.33 = 26.26'

 

So - a 5 wt. rod running a 3 wt. feels the same @ 42' as a 4 wt. @ 35' or a 6 wt. @ 26.3'.

 

Looks like the 5/6 rods is about how many fairies can dance on a head of a pin.

 

catch ya'

 

 

Don