Guide For Bow River

[Philippft]

Hi,

I'm visiting Canada to fly fish for Salmon in September 2010. This will be my first and last fishing trip to Canada and i want it to be a life time’s experience.

 

I'll be flying into Calgary and I’ve been advised to fish for Trout on the Bow river before driving over to Vancouver where i shall seek fresh water salmon fishing on the fly.

 

It has been suggested to me that i should take a guide at least once, so i can get an understanding of where to fish, the tactics etc., and pump him for information so i can fish again without a guide! (This makes sense to me so i plan to do this twice, once in Calgary and again in Vancouver).

 

I've looked at some websites and the asking price for a walk and wade guide seems to average around 500 Canadian dollars which in my view is excessive. I would have thought there are a lot of good guides who can put me onto fish at a much more affordable price.

 

I would be grateful for any recommendations from this website.

 

Regards,

 

[Jayhad]

Contact Maxwell on this site... end of story

[birchy]

Or any of the site sponsers..

[Rainbowhunter]

Or any of the site sponsers..

without a dought dutchie " Richard Mason of Bow river adventures. he is the cheapest and has the most expeirience.

[jononfire]

I have also been out with Richard Mason From Bow River Adventures and he is fantastic

[Tungsten]

Theres probably enough local guys on this site that would take you fishing when you get here.Let us no when your coming.Where are you coming from?

[jayjjones11]

has the most expeirience.

 

That's doubtful

[reevesr1]

There are tons of options, many of them are on this board. The guys mentioned are great guides, regardless of whether or not they have the most experience.

 

But as a quick aside, you mentioned that you felf $500 is too high for a walk and wade. I see your point, as on the surface it certainly seems that way. However, if you do the math on what those guys can make in a year, it's more than a bit depressing. My hat is off to anyone who is making a living as a guide, regardless of what he is charging. Tough ass business and not very much money after all the expenses.

 

Anyway, back on topic. Good luck when you get here. Whether you hook up with someone on the board, or hire a professional guide, I'm sure you will have a blast.

[Philippft]

Thanks Gents, i've emailed Richard and just waiting for him to respond. Looking forward to fishing Canada next year!

[BRH]

I've looked at some websites and the asking price for a walk and wade guide seems to average around 500 Canadian dollars which in my view is excessive.

 

$500 is too expensive? Let's break this down ...

 

Right off the top you can figure about $50 for transportation as your guide is going to be travelling at least 100 km just getting you to your fishing spot and back (going rate I believe is $0.51/km).

 

Then you can whack off another $30 for the flies you're going to lose assuming you only lose or ruin 15 flies during your day of fishing. Not to mention the few thousand dollars worth of flies he will have in his fly boxes so he can match the hatch or the fish menu of the day and the extras just in case you lose or ruin more than 15.

 

Then you can whack off another $50 for the lunch your guide is going to supply ... yes $50 ... the guide has to eat too ... and he'll likely be supplying drinks and snacks throughout the day.

 

Then you have to prorate the thousands of dollars worth of fly rods, fly lines, leaders, tippets, strike indicators, drift boats, and other pieces of equipment the guide has to have at his disposal so that if the cheapo client arrives with a 3 wt rod to fish the Bow River, the guide has equipment appropriate for the river that the client can use. Let's conservatively say $100 for that.

 

Then we have to consider the multitude of trips the guide spent on the river without a client learning the runs, buckets and holes, the river and trout, the effective methods of fishing and the flies of choice for any given week or month on the river ... only to be compensated when someone books him to take them on a trip. What's that worth? Let's be really conservative and say $100.

 

How am I doing so far Max?

 

Then you have to consider the cost of operating a business, bookkeeping, the Tax Man, keeping a website up, covering the cost of credit card payments, advertising, promotional activities, sponsorships. Let's again be conservative and peg that at $50.

 

So now your guide is going to be taking you for a fishing trip on the world famous Bow River for somewhere in the neighborhood of $220, spend 2 hours preparing for you, 10 hours on the river with you and 2 hours cleaning up after he's dropped you off at the hotel. The expert you're proposing to hire will make something less than $16 per hour and you think that's expensive?????? Give your head a shake buddy. Good thing you didn't contact me for a trip.

 

Incidentally, a tip to the guide is not included in the price of the trip. Standard tip rates are 10 to 20% of the trip cost. Having access to this website by the guide you have contacted, don't be surprised if he anticipates the lack of a tip because you already think he's too expensive.

[gdh0404]

$500 is too expensive? Let's break this down ...

 

Right off the top you can figure about $50 for transportation as your guide is going to be travelling at least 100 km just getting you to your fishing spot and back (going rate I believe is $0.51/km).

 

Then you can whack off another $30 for the flies you're going to lose assuming you only lose or ruin 15 flies during your day of fishing. Not to mention the few thousand dollars worth of flies he will have in his fly boxes so he can match the hatch or the fish menu of the day and the extras just in case you lose or ruin more than 15.

 

Then you can whack off another $50 for the lunch your guide is going to supply ... yes $50 ... the guide has to eat too ... and he'll likely be supplying drinks and snacks throughout the day.

 

Then you have to prorate the thousands of dollars worth of fly rods, fly lines, leaders, tippets, strike indicators, drift boats, and other pieces of equipment the guide has to have at his disposal so that if the cheapo client arrives with a 3 wt rod to fish the Bow River, the guide has equipment appropriate for the river that the client can use. Let's conservatively say $100 for that.

 

Then we have to consider the multitude of trips the guide spent on the river without a client learning the runs, buckets and holes, the river and trout, the effective methods of fishing and the flies of choice for any given week or month on the river ... only to be compensated when someone books him to take them on a trip. What's that worth? Let's be really conservative and say $100.

 

How am I don't so far Max?

 

Then you have to consider the cost of operating a business, bookkeeping, the Tax Man, keeping a website up, covering the cost of credit card payments, advertising, promotional activities, sponsorships. Let's again be conservative and peg that at $50.

 

So now your guide is going to be taking you for a fishing trip on the world famous Bow River for somewhere in the neighborhood of $220, spend 2 hours preparing for you, 10 hours on the river with you and 2 hours cleaning up after he's dropped you off at the hotel. The expert you're proposing to hire will make something less than $16 per hour and you think that's expensive?????? Give your head a shake buddy. Good thing you didn't contact me for a trip.

 

Incidentally, a tip to the guide is not included in the price of the trip. Standard tip rates are 10 to 20% of the trip cost. Having access to this website by the guide you have contacted, don't be surprised if he anticipates the lack of a tip because you already think he's too expensive.

Woah.. I think you were exagerating a bit and he said "In my view that's expensive" which I don't see anything wrong

[BRH]

I think you were exagerating a bit

 

Where do you think I exagerated?

[maxwell]

pseudo i prettymuch got it.. u forgot the time we spend on teh pc figuring out dates, helping wiht lodging n such, phonecalls, cellphone(local and longdistance calls) and the list goes on BUT I LOVE WHAT I DO AND WOULDNT CHANGE IT FOR ANY JOB OUT THERE imho!!! its my passion my craft and my LIFE!!!

 

PhiltheFisher i wish you all the best in your trip too canada! im sure you will have a blast! please let us know how ya do!! take care n tightlines!

[BRH]

Max ... I love what I do as well, but ... it jerks my chain when someone from the outside, having no idea what's involved in preparing and conducting a guided trip, suggests our prices are excessive!!!

 

Hope you're busy all October with your Walk and Wade Special. Just think ... you'll be making less than $3 and hour for all your expertise and experience. Seems like such a waste of your professional service.

[reevesr1]

But what is better? Sitting around the house waiting for a trip or getting some cash flow? I'm a firm believer in making hay while the sun shines, but right now the sun ain't shining all that much.

[yak]

$500 is too expensive? Let's break this down ...

 

Right off the top you can figure about $50 for transportation as your guide is going to be travelling at least 100 km just getting you to your fishing spot and back (going rate I believe is $0.51/km).

 

Then you can whack off another $30 for the flies you're going to lose assuming you only lose or ruin 15 flies during your day of fishing. Not to mention the few thousand dollars worth of flies he will have in his fly boxes so he can match the hatch or the fish menu of the day and the extras just in case you lose or ruin more than 15.

 

Then you can whack off another $50 for the lunch your guide is going to supply ... yes $50 ... the guide has to eat too ... and he'll likely be supplying drinks and snacks throughout the day.

 

Then you have to prorate the thousands of dollars worth of fly rods, fly lines, leaders, tippets, strike indicators, drift boats, and other pieces of equipment the guide has to have at his disposal so that if the cheapo client arrives with a 3 wt rod to fish the Bow River, the guide has equipment appropriate for the river that the client can use. Let's conservatively say $100 for that.

 

Then we have to consider the multitude of trips the guide spent on the river without a client learning the runs, buckets and holes, the river and trout, the effective methods of fishing and the flies of choice for any given week or month on the river ... only to be compensated when someone books him to take them on a trip. What's that worth? Let's be really conservative and say $100.

 

How am I doing so far Max?

 

Then you have to consider the cost of operating a business, bookkeeping, the Tax Man, keeping a website up, covering the cost of credit card payments, advertising, promotional activities, sponsorships. Let's again be conservative and peg that at $50.

 

So now your guide is going to be taking you for a fishing trip on the world famous Bow River for somewhere in the neighborhood of $220, spend 2 hours preparing for you, 10 hours on the river with you and 2 hours cleaning up after he's dropped you off at the hotel. The expert you're proposing to hire will make something less than $16 per hour and you think that's expensive?????? Give your head a shake buddy. Good thing you didn't contact me for a trip.

 

Incidentally, a tip to the guide is not included in the price of the trip. Standard tip rates are 10 to 20% of the trip cost. Having access to this website by the guide you have contacted, don't be surprised if he anticipates the lack of a tip because you already think he's too expensive.

wow, what a ray of sunshine you are. cant imagine why guys arent lined up to fork over $500 to spend 10 hours on the river with you.

ps. if hes already in calgary why is it $50 for travel costs. also, wtf is on the menu that Im paying $50 for lunch ( not sure why i would have to pay for yours as well). if i bring my own rod/reel/ etc, why am i paying $100 for the gear you have in your trunk or the drift boat you have back in the garage. I too think $500 for a walk and wade on a river in the middle of the city with easy access points and multitudes of willing fish is a tad excessive (great company aside).

[headscan]

wow, what a ray of sunshine you are. cant imagine why guys arent lined up to fork over $500 to spend 10 hours on the river with you.

ps. if hes already in calgary why is it $50 for travel costs. also, wtf is on the menu that Im paying $50 for lunch ( not sure why i would have to pay for yours as well). if i bring my own rod/reel/ etc, why am i paying $100 for the gear you have in your trunk or the drift boat you have back in the garage. I too think $500 for a walk and wade on a river in the middle of the city with easy access points and multitudes of willing fish is a tad excessive (great company aside).

I think he was implying that those are some of the overhead expenses a guide has to worry about when deciding what to charge. If you take a taxi part of the overhead included in the price of your fare is probably for windshield washer fluid even if the driver doesn't clean the windshield while you're in it.

 

If you think $500 is too much, then simply don't pay it. Why am I getting deja vu here? Oh, now I remember.

[Jayhad]

I just had some buddies from Ireland out fishing the bow for a week; they both thought the prices of drift boats were crazy. THey stated on thier waters in Ireland a top notch ghillie is 180 Euros. So perhaps it is just a difference in perceptions. I told them $500 wasn't out of the ordinary and actually standard. They did a drift and caught tonnes of fish and when they got back they felt it was worth the price.

 

It must be tough for a outsider to see the value in such an expense, with out knowing much about our fishing.

 

But if you think $500 is expensive never go fish off-shore in the south pacific.

[Simpson]

$500 is too expensive? Let's break this down ...

 

Right off the top you can figure about $50 for transportation as your guide is going to be travelling at least 100 km just getting you to your fishing spot and back (going rate I believe is $0.51/km).

 

Then you can whack off another $30 for the flies you're going to lose assuming you only lose or ruin 15 flies during your day of fishing. Not to mention the few thousand dollars worth of flies he will have in his fly boxes so he can match the hatch or the fish menu of the day and the extras just in case you lose or ruin more than 15.

 

Then you can whack off another $50 for the lunch your guide is going to supply ... yes $50 ... the guide has to eat too ... and he'll likely be supplying drinks and snacks throughout the day.

 

Then you have to prorate the thousands of dollars worth of fly rods, fly lines, leaders, tippets, strike indicators, drift boats, and other pieces of equipment the guide has to have at his disposal so that if the cheapo client arrives with a 3 wt rod to fish the Bow River, the guide has equipment appropriate for the river that the client can use. Let's conservatively say $100 for that.

 

Then we have to consider the multitude of trips the guide spent on the river without a client learning the runs, buckets and holes, the river and trout, the effective methods of fishing and the flies of choice for any given week or month on the river ... only to be compensated when someone books him to take them on a trip. What's that worth? Let's be really conservative and say $100.

 

How am I doing so far Max?

 

Then you have to consider the cost of operating a business, bookkeeping, the Tax Man, keeping a website up, covering the cost of credit card payments, advertising, promotional activities, sponsorships. Let's again be conservative and peg that at $50.

 

So now your guide is going to be taking you for a fishing trip on the world famous Bow River for somewhere in the neighborhood of $220, spend 2 hours preparing for you, 10 hours on the river with you and 2 hours cleaning up after he's dropped you off at the hotel. The expert you're proposing to hire will make something less than $16 per hour and you think that's expensive?????? Give your head a shake buddy. Good thing you didn't contact me for a trip.

 

Incidentally, a tip to the guide is not included in the price of the trip. Standard tip rates are 10 to 20% of the trip cost. Having access to this website by the guide you have contacted, don't be surprised if he anticipates the lack of a tip because you already think he's too expensive.

 

 

Wow man, not what you said but how you said it. Agree with the majority of your comments above, people often don't see the underlying costs in a lot of services. You can however educate them politely, at the end of the day the customer is the reason you have a job. With regards to tips I know the percentages and I tip well, however they are earned not to be expected.

 

 

[yak]

I think he was implying that those are some of the overhead expenses a guide has to worry about when deciding what to charge. If you take a taxi part of the overhead included in the price of your fare is probably for windshield washer fluid even if the driver doesn't clean the windshield while you're in it.

 

If you think $500 is too much, then simply don't pay it. Why am I getting deja vu here? Oh, now I remember.

I understand that but the last cab i took didnt require me to by lunch for the driver and pay for the set of winter tires he had in storage.

my point is that for a simple walk and wade in the city where i supply my own gear,flies and sandwiches/water, a price tag of $500 is way too much. trying to justify the price by listing expenses the original poster likley wasnt interested in is irrelevant.

 

about 4 years ago,I spent $150 for a walk and wade(was a spring special) with a very well known guide on this site. i got myself to and from our meeting point and supplied my own gear and lunch. He supplied his time/expertise and a about 10 flies (real high end wire worms lol). we spent about 6 hours on the water ( that was enough for me) and taught me more in that day than I would have learned on my own in 5 years. this was well worth the money. had he insisted on charging what others deem to be the "necessary" amount of $500 it wouldnt have happened ( even with the champagne and caviar lunch). perhaps guides need to offer more options with regards to what is supplied and what isnt in order to make the prices a little more pallatable.

[yak]

I just had some buddies from Ireland out fishing the bow for a week; they both thought the prices of drift boats were crazy. THey stated on thier waters in Ireland a top notch ghillie is 180 Euros. So perhaps it is just a difference in perceptions. I told them $500 wasn't out of the ordinary and actually standard. They did a drift and caught tonnes of fish and when they got back they felt it was worth the price.

 

It must be tough for a outsider to see the value in such an expense, with out knowing much about our fishing.

 

But if you think $500 is expensive never go fish off-shore in the south pacific.

$500 for 2 guys to float the bow vs $500 for one guy to walk and wade. that in a nutshell is the problem. totally different level of service yet the same price tag?

[Philippft]

$500 is too expensive? Let's break this down ...

 

Right off the top you can figure about $50 for transportation as your guide is going to be travelling at least 100 km just getting you to your fishing spot and back (going rate I believe is $0.51/km).

 

Then you can whack off another $30 for the flies you're going to lose assuming you only lose or ruin 15 flies during your day of fishing. Not to mention the few thousand dollars worth of flies he will have in his fly boxes so he can match the hatch or the fish menu of the day and the extras just in case you lose or ruin more than 15.

 

Then you can whack off another $50 for the lunch your guide is going to supply ... yes $50 ... the guide has to eat too ... and he'll likely be supplying drinks and snacks throughout the day.

 

Then you have to prorate the thousands of dollars worth of fly rods, fly lines, leaders, tippets, strike indicators, drift boats, and other pieces of equipment the guide has to have at his disposal so that if the cheapo client arrives with a 3 wt rod to fish the Bow River, the guide has equipment appropriate for the river that the client can use. Let's conservatively say $100 for that.

 

Then we have to consider the multitude of trips the guide spent on the river without a client learning the runs, buckets and holes, the river and trout, the effective methods of fishing and the flies of choice for any given week or month on the river ... only to be compensated when someone books him to take them on a trip. What's that worth? Let's be really conservative and say $100.

 

How am I doing so far Max?

 

Then you have to consider the cost of operating a business, bookkeeping, the Tax Man, keeping a website up, covering the cost of credit card payments, advertising, promotional activities, sponsorships. Let's again be conservative and peg that at $50.

 

So now your guide is going to be taking you for a fishing trip on the world famous Bow River for somewhere in the neighborhood of $220, spend 2 hours preparing for you, 10 hours on the river with you and 2 hours cleaning up after he's dropped you off at the hotel. The expert you're proposing to hire will make something less than $16 per hour and you think that's expensive?????? Give your head a shake buddy. Good thing you didn't contact me for a trip.

 

Incidentally, a tip to the guide is not included in the price of the trip. Standard tip rates are 10 to 20% of the trip cost. Having access to this website by the guide you have contacted, don't be surprised if he anticipates the lack of a tip because you already think he's too expensive.

 

 

Wow, you did'nt marry my first wife by any chance!

[Jayhad]

$500 for 2 guys to float the bow vs $500 for one guy to walk and wade. that in a nutshell is the problem. totally different level of service yet the same price tag?

You are right I missed that

[Golfman09]

I am jumping in on this late but perhaps have a somewhat different take on it coming from a similar background in a slightly different field.

 

First off, if a person thinks that $500 is too much to spend than make that choice and look for alternative way to get better at your preferred sport. A guide or instructor when they do their job correctly will help you attain skills more quickly than you figuring it out on your own. Anybody is perfectly capable in becoming great at anything that they put the effort into. Instruction added to your own effort will speed up the process which for some is why the $500 up front cost is enticing. Their knowledge becomes yours and thus speeds up the learning curve and you can see success a lot earlier than you would have if left to your own devices. Think about how much of your time it will take to get some of the skills a guide can offer not to mention the cost of flies, gear, etc that will be consumed in not catching fish before you get the experience that will increase your knowledge base. Is it worth it for you? Maybe not if your unemployed, sitting on the couch with nothing else to do but study the art. However, it definitely is for someone who needs the skills more quickly in order to get to a level of success with the amount of time they may have to enjoy the pursuit.

 

I was a golf instructor in a previous life and find it a very similar situation. An individual golf lesson is expensive in most cases where a similar 6 hour block of time would easily create $500 in revenue. Basically, the student is paying for a level of expertise, not value per minute of instruction. In simple form a golf lesson is 5-10 minutes of instruction and then the rest is repetition. It is often package so that the student doesn't realize the story is all the same but the idea is to not confuse things with various stages of a golf swing but gradually teach drills that will enforce slow changes in a persons skill set. It has to be that way because with each new concept being introduced the student needs time and practice to move to the next step. In the end the time that is offered for the lesson is more so because there is a minimum amount of time that is expected for a certain level of income. Some jump at it and others continue to hit range balls that only help to create bad habits. Look at the high profile instructors in the US and you'll find that you can spend ridiculous dough if you think it might help.

 

In my fishing I have chosen to read books, search online and find people to fish with that have more experience than myself. The option of a guide is always there but I have found ways to enjoy the pace at which I am learning to fly fish. I could afford a guide if the situation came up where I need to kick start my knowledge base of a certain type of fishing. However, I also need to spend my money buying a putter once a month that will immediately solve all my problems on the greens. Either way it is a choice that we can look at and decide for yourself.

 

For a guide they have to set a price where they can make enough money to survive while balancing the demand on their time. Someone, who is continually booked can keep jacking the price to where the amount of time worked is balanced by the income they need. If we don't like what they are charging than we won't use the service. Obviously someone is getting value from the dollars being charged as there is a range in price that seems to be consistent over a large segment of the industry. My hope is that a successful and knowledgeable guide will still offer help to youth that cannot possibly pay the big price tag. However, in the end its good old supply and demand.........

[BRH]

$500 for 2 guys to float the bow vs $500 for one guy to walk and wade. that in a nutshell is the problem. totally different level of service yet the same price tag?

 

Actually the problem for the original poster and anyone else who thinks the price of a walk and wade guided trip for one person is excessive is ... I have a choice ... take one guy on a walk and wade for $300 or $350 or whatever ... or ... one or two guys on a float for $500. Essentially, for those guides who have a full schedule, it's $300 for a day of work or $500. I don't care if the trip is for one or two guys, a float or a walk and wade ... the price is $500. I'm not going to book a one person walk and wader for anything less because I have a full slate of bookings and don't have to sell my services for less to fill empty days ... I don't have any. If you want to book my services for a day of fishing at my going rate, great! If you don't want to book my services for a day of fishing at my going rate, that's fine too because I'll be booked with someone else. There's no waiting around hoping someone will book a trip with me. Most of the time it's a juggling act fitting everyone in.