hydropsyche

You're right. We are. I was focusing on the NHL and arguing they should have some kind of ethic's rules. I don't know where the line should be drawn but it should be drawn somewhere. Does anyone know if they have one? Killing someone in a car accident didn't have the same intent, so I would give MacTavish a second chance. Just so you know where I'm coming from, I used to hang out with a guy that robbed convenience stores at gunpoint. I didn't know it at the time. He just showed up with all this money. He was a good guy. I was friends with a guy that ended up being murdered in jail. I've personally been "swarmed" and ended up in the hospital (totally unprovoked. *ssholes looking to kick someone's butt). So I'm quite familiar with the seedier side of life and what motivates them (and what deters them). I believe deterrence isn't there anymore and that leads to people not wanting to testify (they're going to be out in 3 mo) which leads to them joining gangs (protection, payback) which leads to a whole lot of other nastiness (or they end up huddled in fear). I'm for rehabilitation but only second to protection and whatever the word "Justice" means. Lock the violent criminals away for a long, long, long time and leave the pot smokers and jaywalkers alone. After all, when you think about it, what is worse then violence? And most of the time (insanity being the exception), violence is a learned response. Anyway, I digress but don’t take my posts as being retribution based lacking compassion. I have lots of compassion.

I've already said it but I'll repeat it again (similar to you having to repeat "but its been warming since the last ice age"). He should NOT be playing in the NHL (the whole context of this thread), being revered by society as an example of "you can do whatever you want and you will be forgiven". Monkey see, monkey can attempt murder without any consequences other then doing minuscule time. If Weedy's stats are accurate, 10% of the population isn't picking butts off the ground. In your mind you are relegating them to that status, not me. Criminals fearing society. Its called deterrence. Its not a hard concept to grasp. You can argue whether it works or not but if there was absolutely no jails and no societal ostracization, would crime go up or down? You seem to be very supportive of criminals. Does Weedy know something about you I don't?

Please...... Here is an example of our Justice system. There are many, many more. The problem I have with more then half of the respondents to this poll totally forgiving this guy and thinking it is perfectly fine for an ex-murderer to return to the NHL is, in today's world, I'm seeing more and more concern and pity for the perpetrators of violent crimes then the victims. Mis-guided compassion, IMHO. This guy was unsuccessful. If he had found a real hitman, someone would be dead (for the rest of their life, unable to play hockey at any level, even if they were able to say pretty please). So, no. In my world, it wouldn't be death for any crime. It would be turning the tables back to a time when it was the criminals who feared society and its victims, not the other way around.

Revenge is not the only motivation. Protection of society is one too. Very laudable. Do you mind if I send an email to the John Howard Society stating Sundance would be a perfect community for their next residence? Maybe you can rent out your basement? Chances are you won't be meeting any hockey players, but what the heck, I'm sure they are all fine upstanding citizens.

Playing in the NHL is a privilege, not a right.

Combine the sensationalist headline with the article Sundance posted about thermometers being selectively chosen and you can't help but question if their statement the data "is readily available to the public.” means anything. Who's data? Edit to include snippet: "In the 1970s, nearly 600 Canadian weather stations fed surface temperature readings into a global database assembled by the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA). Today, NOAA only collects data from 35 stations across Canada." True or False?

Thanks for the links Weedy. I'm glad I wasn't so quick to judge him (he doesn't want pity, but he has mine) but I am of the opinion sports teams, being revered by youth and society, have an obligation to consider the image they portray to society. They need to weigh that against their desire to win ($) (and get the goonery and violence out of the sport, but that is a whole different thread). I'm glad he's finally got his head on straight but I think he now needs to learn how to deal with life like the rest of us and learn how to live it without hockey and the lime light. It sounds like he can do it. Why not? Thousands like him have. I wish him all the best and I hope he can do better then dishwashing. I just don't want the kids in my neighborhood worshiping a guy with that background (like many football, basketball, baseball players that all too often get a second break because they make the owners B$g Bucks). One thing I've learned about kids (and I used to be one) is monkey see, monkey do.

Beauty rod. I'm a big Dan Craft fan as I have three of them myself. If you want to learn how to do 2-3 turn trims, check this out and wow your friends.

The victim in me (and I've been victimized) says hang him high. He is a failed murderer (if guilty) after all. But I don't know the circumstances (maybe he wanted the guy who killed his sister dead) so I won't be so quick to judge without knowing all the facts. But the bottom line is if I had that record and I applied for a job that required a police check, I would have ZERO chance of getting hired. Why should something as prominent as a sports team be any different? I can’t play for that team because I wasn’t born with the skill (out of my control – life’s not fair) as opposed to something I did have control over (living with your decision – life’s not fair. Boo Hoo). I'll never understand societies acceptance of exceptions for sport figures.

I always tend to route for the underdogs. Its never a bad thing to get knocked off your high horse. Good show.

Lets Bowl? That is where I bowled. Quite a drive from your house.

That average is Canadian Championship range. I'm not kidding. I bowled a couple years and my best average was in the 180 range. Nowhere near a perfect game ever. Its like a hole in one. Good job.

The computer it was made on cost at least that. The numbers must have been fudged but I'd believe it if it was peer reveiwed. ;-) Awesome vid none the less.

Now I'm really suspicious. I know CO2 *is* heavier then air but if something weighed that much, wouldn't it just fall out of the sky? Like right now? And the AWG crowd is trying to tell us its "floating" up there creating a greenhouse gas affect? I don't get it.

I guess that didn't come across the way I meant it. I'm not saying I agree with a wealth transfer (I don't) but if Coppenhaggen gets its way, it could happen, whether we like it or not. Or a redirection to research and development, or whatever. That would lower our standard of living but we would survive it. There is a lot of padding here. Personally, I think its coming and I can't do a thing about it. So I'm rationalizing. Its a fear response. The ends I'm refering to is the slowdown of run away exploitation of limited resouces. Compared to 40 years ago, the average, hard working family, consumed less. I hope that clears it up.

That looks deadly. Sparce is good. Nice tye. I really like the way you photograph and label your flies. I think its worth the extra effort.

To the older fogies....do you remember how you grew up? Probably like me. Small house (800 sq ft) with 7 people living in it, single car, one TV, single income. My dad was not at the bottom either. He was a manager for a large newspaper. I'm talking less then 40 yr ago. Compare that to today. Two incomes, 1500+ sq ft homes with 2 or 3 people, 2 or 3 cars, flat screens, computers, etc. you get the picture. If there is a wealth transfer, I'm thinking we can survive it. Some of us are way too comfy and spoiled and don't even know it. We are a gluttonous society, for sure. This is the ends I'm agreeing with, but I'm still very suspicious of the means.

Two pages of posts after this one and no discussion on what this guy says. I was expecting posts on how he is funded by big oil or how he is a fruit fly scientist. I'm a bit disappointed. Now I'm going to have to do my own research on this guy.

I think this might sum up the hidden agenda of the AGW and environmental crowd. If there was fraud and coercion (and I don't doubt that anymore), one has to ask themselves what was the motive besides a few people making a whole lot of money. The probable motive is to make carbon based fuels so expensive society is forced to find other ways. The ends will justify the means. I've said it before. I agree with the ends but I question the means. However, there are those who are a little more analytical and skeptical then others and noticed things just didn't add up. Their questions weren't answered. Instead, they were ostracized. Those of us who aren't scientests wondered why? How can one side say there was warming and the other cooling but the science was settled? It never was settled for me and still isn't. We wonder which side wasn't playing fair. Maybe both? Now that one side was caught with their pants down, all those other scientists who based their support on their data are probably just as pissed as the rest of us. At least, I hope they are. Maybe we can return to honest studies now. Studies we can all trust.

Nike slogan - Just Do It Gatorade slogan - Is it in you? edit: Sundance's slogan (?) - Don't Hate. Debate.

Avalanche. We're going to have to get out fishing one day......and bring the rod. Man, I'm so jealous.

I'm waiting for Micheal Moore to make a "documentary". Do you think I'll have long to wait? If all this is true (and I can't see how anyone can deny or spin their way out of this), then it is a dark day indeed. Not only for the AGW congregation but for the scientific community as a whole. I mean, if we can't trust the authorities, who can we trust and when will that trust ever be restored? There is more at stake here then who was right or wrong, its about the population loosing faith in the authorities when it is very important that they don't (ie: H1N1 vaccines). This might be why mainstream is ignoring it. What is probably going to happen is we'll see AGW fade away and forgotten before we ever see prosecution of fraudsters.

Can I be a Skeptic...or will I immediately be labeled a Denier because the science is settled? The earth is round. I think that’s been settled but I don't believe this science has been. I question the motive of those that say it is (and apparently won’t release raw data) and create derogatory terms to ostracize those that don't believe it is. Or label them bias instead of debating them. This creates distrust in those of us who are not capable of analyze climatology data but are very capable of recognizing manipulative behaviour. The tendency to label everyone who doesn’t wholly agree with something a denier may not technically be derogatory but it does tend to draw a hard line. Black or White. Believer or Denier. If the science hasn’t been settled, then the term Denier, in this context, is intended to be derogatory, imho.

Really? I have a swack of those. I tied them up after watching a fishing show. I think they called it the Box Canyon Stone or the Viagra. I've tried them but obviously not hard enough. Thats the problem when you have 300 different patterns with you at all times.

Okay. You all are just teasing the hell out of this old tye flier by posting your favorites without giving/showing patterns. Rickr - I gotta see that leggy stone Jayhad - Don't be shy. Here is my top five that I try at least once if the fish aren't on (in no particular order) Copper John Prince AP nymph Seal bugger (dead drifted then swung) midge (the swj is a given) I believe if the fish aren't on, when you change flies, change the size and shape (and motion - softhackle) more then the colour. These flies all have different sizes and/or shapes. That is probably why they are the ones I usually cycle through.