Smitty

Did some exploring on my way back to Edmonton from the Okotoks wedding I attended this past weekend. Followed Barry Mitchell's advice from his Trout Highway book. Not sure I did end up following it that well. But nothing. Nada. Went up Johnson's creek as well, same result. And I fished some pretty fishy water. I'm no pro fisherman, but I know how to get 6-9 inch fish to bite from a small stream!! As in, not even a sign of a fish. As in, chuck a rock into a pool, see what you spook. z.e.ro. Maybe I was in the wrong stretch... Maybe its a hidden gem for some of the Calgary crowd who might know it better than me. But I won't be back anytime soon; too many other places I can fish, and that location doesn't work at all for an Edmonton angler. Not to mention the quad brigade and the rifle shooting (is there a range?). I'll pass, thanks. lol. Too bad, it is pretty country, and I got to drive one of the few remaining blank spots on the map for the Forestry Trunk road. All that's left is the portion south of the Red Deer River / Panther river confluence...and I will have driven it all from Grande Prairie down to the Crownest Pass. Only took me 21 years...

I always make a blanket generalization that virtually everything - except designated natural areas - is private land east of QE2, and crown land - especially crown land available to randomly camp on - is virtually non-existent. True?

Hi Everyone: I'm not trying to horn in on anyone's secret spots, but can someone tell me if there is non-classified water near Sparwood? The only thing I can find is the Flathead river. I ask, because my nephew has a summer job down there. He bought his annual non-res license and wants to fish. Trouble is, $21 per day does add up when you are a student trying to save money. Anyways. if anyone has suggestions, I'd appreciate them. I used to know the area somewhat well, but now, not so much. Plus, I've noticed formerly unclassified systems are now classified, as you drive north from Cranbrook. So...I don't know! Pm me if you prefer. Cheers, Smitty

Hi: Well, I noticed this the other day on Facebook: I can't make this. I'm in Edmonton, and June is stupendously, insanely busy for teachers. I think I am losing my mind. Lol Anyways, if anyone here in Calgary wouldn't mind volunteering for use to do some shopping, my students and I would be eternally grateful. If this is anything like the April tackle swap, which my dad and I were at, there are some decent prices for tackle and fly tying supplies. I am looking for leaders, tippet, and fly tying tools and materials. Really appreciate any help. PM me or text 780-970-7886 Thanks! Mike

Nope. Thanks, both of you. Keep the suggestions coming!

Add to the above: 3) Good place to eat in Black Diamond on the way back? Thanks bcubed. Keep the replies coming, friends! -Smitty

Hey everyone: Planning a camping trip down south Sept-19-21 with a group of 20+ students. Looking for a few recommendations. 1) Any nice day-use picnic areas between Okotoks and around Black Diamond / Longview? Wanted a nice spot for a quick (30 minutes) lunch 2) Wanted to take the students on a short, easy hike along the Whaleback Ridge. Any recommendations here? Anything related to the science curriculum would be great; unique geology, fauna, plants, trees, animals, etc. Also, if this short hike could gain some modest elevation so some scenic pictures could be taken, that would be awesome.

$200 bid on item #3

Just to clarify, all the official bids are on Facebook, right? I found round 1 confusing; just seemed people were bidding here and on Facebook...

Hello everyone: My father and I are coming down to Calgary (from Edmonton) tomorrow to run a booth and sell some excess fly-fishing equipment we have. I am also keeping an eye out for any half decent, used, cheaply priced equipment. I have a class of 25 wildlife students in my class and I am taking them flyfishing 3-4 times. I could use some 4/5/6 rod and reel outfits, I figure one per 2 students. So 10 to 12 outfits would be ideal, as I have some already but I am looking to upgrade. If you have any used equipment lying around not being used, we could sure use the donation and/or be happy to pay a modest price for them. TFO, Redington, Superfly come to mind. Cheers. Mike P.S. You may certainly text me if you want to meet up; 780-970-7886 Info on the TU Tackle Swap tomorrow: Location - Crescent Heights Community Association (same as last year) Date - April 13th, 2018 Approximate Time - 1-4 PM

Don, as usual, despite your impression, on a basic, fundamental level, we agree. For invasives, you say puhtata, I say poe-tay-toe! (Anyone catch the LOTR reference there?) Therefore, by your logic, Brown and Brook trout are invasives as well, as you well know. Lots of native fish in Red Deer / Clearwater - North Sask water basins before the Europeans showed up. The minnows, whitefish, bull trout, suckers, walleye and pike weren't stocked, to my knowledge (by all means clarify the facts if I am wrong...). Funny how you'll tolerate brown and brook, but you have your hackles raised for native-yet-invasive cutts in nearly vacant niche like the Upper Ram... And I know of Cow lake's potential. Another example; Crawling Valley was predicted to have the next rainbow trout record; but according to Kyle McNeilly it was always intended to be a transitional fishery before pike-walleye-perch-whitefish took hold. Yes, I know it was a different intent than Cow, I am simply pointing out that I am well aware of the fertility levels and potential of many of our pothole fisheries. It is sad indeed. Wasn't it Mr. McNeilly also promoting the stabilization of lake levels of Upper and Lower Kananaskis lakes as well? That those 2 lakes have / had the potential to grow huge trout if TransAlta could just stop messing with the littoral zone? Again, correct me if I am wrong on that account. But that was told to me as well from Jim Stelfox. Lots of pothole fisheries going to waste. And, to completely circle back to the original point, zero retention on perch ain't solving nothing until someone cites me some studies or evidence of this much ballyhooed "deterrent effect" improving the quality of our stocked fisheries. Otherwise it's just game of regulatory one-upmanship of "oh yeah, you did that, so we'll do this to show you!" My take anyways... I'll say no more on this dead horse; topic officially beaten to death! -Mike P.S. Anyone know what happened to Kyle McNeilly? After he stopped writing for the AFG, he kinda fell off the face of the earth... P.P.S. No brainer that trophy stillwater trout fisheries attract alot of attention. 20 boats on Muir mid-week by my count last spring...too bad the province isn't quite dialed into this yet in an "all-in" basis...

Whats the date of the story? There are several when you do a search.

In regards to Perch, they are not truly invasive though. Obviously, native to the province. They just happen to be undesirable in our artificial, stocked lakes.

I agree with much of what you say here Sparkplug; yet much of what you are advocating for; isn't that already happening? Aren't we already concentrating on a small # of lakes? Based on my anecdotal observations of fishing Muir lake, and what many here have to say about Beaver (I'm relying on Don's comments alot) is that QSF fisheries are in heavy demand. And QSF's are relatively few compared to the total amount of put and take fisheries; so wouldn't that already qualify them as being a showcase fishery? And yeah, you said the magic work - 'yet'. And let's hope many of the beloved QSF's stay uninfected with perch. Could be a matter of time, unfortunately. The bios / gov't are reluctant to "convert" long-existing, traditional keep 5 trout a day lakes over to QSF's. Lots of pushback from the keep and eat crowd. Very tough to "transition" them. Lots of QSF's are "new" lakes such as the cluster of Pit lakes south of Robb. Those are much easier, politically speaking. And, absolutely, there will always have to be put and take fisheries. The problem with including perch is the (relatively) incompatible species issue. We already have plenty of cool-water lakes that sustain pike-perch-walleye-whitefish. What needs to happen here is education. Anglers should not be associating our trout stillwater fisheries as a source of "good" perch fishing. It's that simple. You might as well capitulate then and stock the pike, and have a Cow lake situation. Culturally speaking, that's the transition I'd like Alberta to go to over succeeding generations; keep the damn perch out of our trout lakes and accept it! lol Might take an existing QSF to get "ruined" by perch before the gov't takes drastic action and truly rehab lakes. So ya, step up enforcement, toughen fines, and concentrate on creating new fisheries into QSF's. Anyways, tough issue with gov't complacency and angler apathy (true for the vast majority of the 270,000+ licensed anglers).

No no...no worries. It's a good debate. I wrote a reply to someone else, it was too defensive in tone. I invited people to set me straight on facts, someone did (though they were half right). There ya go. Whatever. Doesn't change my mind one bit about how I feel about a particular policy (the nonsensical zero perch limit). However, I have had ample forum time and space to repeat my point several times, so I'll say no more on it. Bottom line from my point of view is that the government should be all in, and we, as anglers, should spend more time trying to convince the government (bios, etc) the tourism and economic merits of having a trout mecca like the Parklands. Or just manage our fisheries better!

... Didnt like my reply. Deleted it.

Ah! Now I see. Yes, 100%. I could closing a lake as a viable alternative, but that also punishes the anglers targeting trout. And, the biggest downside to closing lakes is that makes alot of lakes right now eligible for closure. Can you imagine closing, what ten to 2 dozen lakes? I don't even know how many infestations there are, province wide. Yeah, I totally agree; these guys already are doing something illegal, we're not going to prevent them from poaching. Seems like the best course would be (1) close the lake (2) rehab the lake rotenone, turn off aerators (3) signage and educational campaign blitz (4) toughen the laws for the live transport of fish, dumping goldfish, koi, perch etc where-ever. Education is a big component here. Too bad there aren't reverse aerators where they "suck" the oxygen out of the lakes...though I am sure PETA would have something to say about that..

I don't understand what you're saying here... there is no issues with "access". If a lake is publicly accessible, it's accessible. As for getting caught, no one - to my knowledge, someone else can chime in here and correct me - that no one has been charged, brought before a judge, and prosecuted for stocking perch illegally. Again, if we're talking about disincentives, a law should be effective and enforced. Anyways,...like I said...not sure what point you're making here... As for angling, yes, sadly, you are mostly correct. Would take alot of angling effort to make a dent in the populations. So where does that leave us? Better to try, than to leave an infested lake to its own devices? Having a zero retention limit on perch has done nothing, has produced zero results, and a pure status quo policy. So, circling around on this carousel, we've come to the conclusion that rehab is the way to go? Or, maybe it's easier to target and create "new" fisheries. Yay! More mine pit lakes!! Just remember, many lakes - Hasse, Cow come to mind - were originally pike / perch lakes. Only in severe winterkills did the bios decades and decades ago experiment with filling temporary niches with stocked, non-native species like rainbow trout. Anyways, I'm all for trying something different.

Right. Exactly my point. We've tried different policies, none seem to work. So you try something different. I'm all for the poison, except (a) that the government won't ante up the funds and (b) they don't have the political stomach. I have more practical viewpoint on this (sorry, but it is more practical): since no one has cited any evidence that a zero perch retention has done anything, why not try the opposite? Forget the "philosphy" of it rewarding the idiots, isn't the bottom line that we want better trout fisheries? So, short of rotenone, isn't the best way to do that is to reduce perch numbers? Additionally, you could turn off aerators, hope for a complete and total winterkill? I'm saying we've stuck to the principle of "let's not reward the idiots". Great. Awesome. And it's got us a whole lotta nothing except perch infested lakes where (until the regs changed back this year), I wasn't allowed to kill the little buggers. So... do you draw your sword on a hill of principles and rant about it....or do something practical? We're all frustrated. Again, if anyone has some actual evidence to support the policy of zero retention perch, great. I suspect it is non-existent. So...back to chasing our tails. Maybe a new gov't will do something... (yeah right). So sure, let's go for the poison. That is the practical solution actually: if Alberta could even come close to replicating the Manitoba parkland experience, like Don says, anglers will vote with their feet. The increased angler related tourism revenue could help offset the costs of poison. Seriously, what else is there to do? You gotta kill the perch or kill the lake. Having a zero limit makes no sense in lakes already infested.

That's one way to look at it. Another way is to also say that not allowing retention of perch hasn't done anything to improve those trout lakes as well. Furthermore, I don't believe the zero retention was working as a deterrent. You're dialed into the bios and conversations Don, can you cite some evidence of any upside to that policy? It was, what, in place the past 5 - 7 - 10 years? So if leaving the perch alone didn't help trout, and it's not preventing the bucket biologists from acting selfishly, maybe it is time to reverse the policy. Maybe they should allow unlimited retention and a must kill policy for perch. What could it hurt at this point? If the lakes aren't going to be properly re-habbed with rotenone and/or the aerators shut down in the winter, I am the "might as well try this now" stage. Clearly, you see it differently. Fair enough.

Yeah, I agree with this as well. Maybe forums have peaked. Have to say, when this forum was at its peak it was very good. Sure, there some issues, personality conflicts etc - what online platform / forum doesn't? - but overall, this was one of the best forums going for info / chat / talk. Anyways, I digress. Carry on...

Undoubtedly I suspect that's entirely correct. Nevertheless, it needs to be modified. But, on the other hand, I did find the alternative solution, so less bothersome now...

I did find a solution angler; the best thing to do is to go to the blog feed itself and then there is an option to click "mark forum as read". Then it asks to confirm, and you say yes. Then click your unread content again, nothing from the blog should show up.

Hate to pile on, but I agree. Is there a way to filter these out? Just curious.

You hope. And all here agree. But don't under-estimate the bucket brigade crowd; the value anything - small as it is - that can fill there freezer. But yeah, seems to be the mother of no-brainers that balanced ecosystems with predators is the way to go.