ogilvie

a 12'6" 5/6 is likely to appreciate a more even load in the 400-450 range..it really isn't necessary to overload a rod at all....casting/fishing within the grain window recommended for a rod is a good choice... IMO C

As PKK states,smaller waters can take advantage of smallish lines;scandi and skagit type..however,the truth is that the Skagit has entitled many more casters to enter the world of Spey casts much more easily and of course more quickly,and that is the key. The great lakes area is of course going to take off as it now is showing signs of doing. And of course the hype over the Skagit system has left Rio in a real conundrum of too much demand ... Back East you will see more SA and AirFlo being used ,some CND and of Course the Rio lines are now becoming common place. The last part of the Continent to really show signs of Spey favor is the Maritimes. Traditional Atlantic fishermen are still prone to casting 2 pc rods in most of the areas.Something to do with the economy and tradition. As with all specialty products ie: CND,Beulah and a few others it takes time to get attention away from the main stay products... I have fished the Ganny,Notti, Grand, Maitland, Beaver,Niagara,French and many more rivers in Ontario and realize that there are Two Schools appearing on the Scene ...Switch Rods are doing very well there as are the smaller Two Handers matched up with various Scandi and Skagit systems... A good point here is that there is a better dry fly fishery there than many of us realize...I will be doing several float trips on the Saugeen again this summer, looking for the Big Boys on the Fly(Musky). As we all know ,Spwey Casters need to have a fair variety of lines or at least have operational lines to suit the needs at hand. The Shooting lines such as Scandi,Skagit and the Elixir type can give you almost everything you need. So now we will see where the common sense goes when the Elixir lines are available as heads...so we can have our favorite running line(Snowbee Salmon), looped to whichever head we choose...we can fish loud and Bold(skagit) short and sweet(Scandi) or delightful and delicate(Elixir)...make your pick! Although Long Belly lines are a must C

Lake Como, Tuscany...such romance...I hope!!??

This is a very good thread....understanding where we once were and where we are now at is key to understanding the "Modern Day Needs".BTW...I know the Whirlpool well... When Rio began de signing the "Skagit Line" it was out of the needs of the many casters on the PNW Coastal waterways that had to cut/splice and re-invent the wheel in order to effectively cast ,deliver and get down large heavy flies to Steelhead in big water flows and ,as well,in the deeper canyon pools and runs.It's not that we never had "skagit lines it's that we never had "manufactured lines". Rio answered the call very well and along the way realized that the door has been opened to many more casters because of this....and that's a good thing. All line manufacturers are now on board. The Scandanavians have a much better grasp of this than we,or at least did,Scandi' lines are now getting their due and becoming very popular ,and rightly so. There are many ways to skin the cat ,personally, I have come aaround once again to the use of Floating lines ,long leaders and smaller heavy flies for most of my fishing...when the water is big there is no question of what to cast! IMO I think the easiest casting /fishing line I have cast with the 2 hander are the Beulah Elixir lines matched up with a proper Poly Tip. 100' casts are easy to accomplish,manipulateing all the spey casts is not a chore and that means better time spent on the water. The greatest majority of waterways in this country that really need massive Skagit Lines are here on the West Coast,however,in good hands are an absolute fishing tool that can be used almost everywhere. We also have to remember that the developement of the Skagit Lines was critically key to the lack of room behind us,ie: canyons,rain forests and the like. Short heavy bellies allowed us to form quick powerful loops that move the line,tip and fly effectively. These line developements are here to stay,we will be buying more lines,and having many more breakthroughs. I have yet to really work with the new Beulah Elixir lines just intorduced ...but these will be a smoother variation of a stretched and tapered Skagit Style line...fun ahead.

That is true.......and at the same time this will allow you to deliver or manufacture tighter loops which is really the key to successful Spey Casts in most cases. If a 27' head is manipulated to form a tight loop it is actually difficult at times because of physical constraints. It only stands to reason that a longer belly will form tighter loops...thus the cheaters. Before the Skagit lines came about we used to use a Compensator section to assit in loop formation ,createing a relationship between line speed ,lift off and anchor. What some of the line manufacturers have done,includeing Rio is develope or re-develope large bellied Skagit lines with friendlier tapers. There has to be a middle of the road design for most casters. CND Skagit Heads are more tapered as I mentioned....made by Rio under License...these lines roll over much more smoothly and with less efort...it's the tapers. But a funny thing about tapers...we can only do so much. Scientific Anglers brought out the original XLT long bellied line that had a front taper of 40' or so(very fine floating line);the belly was large enough to create a lift off of such a long taper with little effort under a good casters command. These lines were the ones used for competitions until recently. Take off the front tapers and you are left with a large Skagitish belly in the 45' range. My favorite Skagit line is actually the CND version...I don't know why,the coatings are very similar to Rio's main stay Skagit...but just the way they handle... Once I get the New Tonic lines in my hands and play a bit I will send a few to Calgary so you casters can play with them C

That rod will handle 450 very easily ,however,you mentioned the flies used there are on the large side....not really. Skagit lines are designed to lift off with 4-6" intruders attached to 12-15' of T-14... Too much for the Bow Generally. Headscan is right about the line/running line...a rio Skagit fly line combines the head and running line as One....the CND Skagit is a head,couple that with your favorite running line. Useing the Rio Skagit system on the bow will often require that you use a cheater to reduce the Splash and lengthen the loop formation . I have fished that rod with the 530 CND Skagit matched with a 16' length of type 6 sinking ...very smooth and effortless. There are other options also available such as SA Short head Spey and their version of the Skagit fly line. Beulah's Elixir Spey lines ar also a great casting/fishing line that require Poly Tips to perform to their peak.. The 7/8 Spey version is 435 grains and the 8/9 version is 520 grains. During a recent trip to Clagary we were casting the 6/7 Elixir Spey line(385 grain) matched to a 6/7 Beulah Spey and I found it to be exact if fishing a small fly;but needed the next line size up to pump out the bigger flies. Those little rods don't really have to be overloaded. The newish Skagit Lines from line manufacturers,are designed with a more friendly Taper on both ends,making casting a bit more fun and less "splashy"...although once you get used to any skagit system casting get fairly easy and very effective. Beulah has just released their Tonic Spey lines at this past week-ends Spey-O-Rama in San Francisco and very well received. This trend will continue as more line manufacturers realize that there is indeed a market for smoother presentation fly lines. Good luck and have fun...

You are generally right...although the use of DT lines is making a big comeback especially in Europe where Czech Nymphing is taking on a new look with Double Taper lines with nymphing tips part of them. I was casting/instructing with a fellow yesterday that has basically only fished with 'boo rods all his life. He found it very difficult last Summer to cast to riseing Salmon off the beach with his rod/line set-ups. He came into the shop to determine , A/ what exactly is a fast action rod! B/ what is a primary use of WF lines and why the accepted uses so much these days. SImply put, to answer his questions and understanding ,I stuck a very fast rod lined up with a sweet matched WF Floating line..Discussed the need to shorten the stroke,speed of stroke and gentle acceleration...you know the result...he was standing there with his mouth open and wasn't sure what just happened....he has never cast 70' of line on One simple Stroke! The need for distance is very apparent off the beaches in search of Salmon..different rods,different needs and different results. What the result was ...he know realizes that as you say,different rods for different styles and different lines. Often we hear, " What is the best rod out there" actually that is a fairly foolish question! Some of us have found several rod/reel/line matches that answer the call for our needs. And there is always more than One rod and Line! The nicest WF floating line I have ever fished and used is the Snowbee WF Two Colour Line...There are some of these in the hands of fly fishers on the Bow that will find out for themselves once the weather get warmer. And there is a point we often overlook and that is line stick and floatation....line slickness allows the line to "Lift Off' much more smoothly,and evenly...that has much to do with performance during the cast and fishability. Polyurethane coatings are IMO the better of the coatings...less chemical involvement to maintain lines,but also more expensive. C

Quite often with the DT lines you will find the front taper slightly longer,primarily for presentation.. Since the weight of a line is determined by the first 30' of the line excludeing the front taper,it is natural to consider that DT lines somewhat different. Effective because of Roll casts and mendability (I wonder why Spey Lines have such long bellies)??Spey lines are weighted similarly. An example of this are the Snowbee DT Lines with a 13' front taper and their WF lines with an 8.5' front taper/back taper11'. The delicate presentation line(WF) has a 16' front taper a16' belly and a 43' rear taper(very long),thus delicate presentation that really works even when you screw up a cast! I can't myself imagine casting a size 24 mosquito but if that's what you have then you need to have that option. For the caster that wants to have a WF line that doubles as a distance line and a great rool casting line then the Extreme distance line is the cats behind for this option. A 60' head yet WF ...an 8' front taper,37' belly and a 15'rear taper. A very popular line for big boombers to multi fly set-ups. Nothing roll casts quite like a nice long bellied line. C

How did the day go..Had to work at the shop today so didn't have a chance to fish until after 4 pm...the sky was blue,no winds and the Coast Mountains were very visable across the Straight. Hooked into a major Cutthroat Trout near the mouth of the Big Qualicum River,snapped my leader like it was string. However, Nanaimo,30 miles to the south,had more than a foot of Snow today and had to close several of the main roads in order to clean them...Reminds me of Calgary somewhat...Hope you all had a great time C

Have fun tomorrow you guys...the weather here on the Island isn't much better...our rivers are very low again and that holds the Steelhead in the deep water pools and they are not going to budge until the melt begins...perhaps next week. If you can find time Gord email me FIngerless gloves..ouch C

Gord; It,s a true test of Carbon Fibres and scrim makeup, Got a sun burn yesterday drifting a river on teh West coast. Have you heard from Harry???? C

There is nothing to brag about when you break a rod! all the rods I have broken are 6wt and up(Except a Hardy Angel 5 wt. Smuggler,brand new out of the sock,the tip broke lining it!)..AS MAX Says T..F..Often. what a bunch of Shite. ALthough in my case it is somewhat unfair to say that I break rods...in many cases I am putting proto types through the drills of reaching performance levels...it wasn't my fault!!?? C

Now you know why so many people lose their sunglasses! When the cost fair dollars we tend to keep better care of then and lose less! I will not risk my eyes because of a few hundred dollars!

You don't want to know!!....Hardy(more than One) Greys(more than One) Lamiglas(More than One), Sage(More than One), Winston(more than One),Scott(more than One),Powell(more than One), Loomis (more than One),Loop (many),Beulah (One), Snowbee(NONE)..but I am waiting. Broken rods are a common event,rods that are matched with the correct lines and casters rarely break....even on big fish...For the amount of money we pay for rods there should be no manufacturers defect if they follow the correct inspection procedures. Few do because of the numbers of rods now being produced. But a few do ! The life span of Graphite is being discussed...time will tell. C

Hi Steve, There have been many published articles about Small Two Handers.... their better uses and functions.But it is a positive thing to have the peaked intereest in ALberta and elsewhere in Canada. I think the Easterners (East Coasters)are the last to really get into the long rods. And the irony is that that region likely has the more ideal waters for Spey Casts,at least historically. Watching your boomber land 120' from your position to a rising Atlantic is something else...and to watch so much line peel off the reel leaves a picture in you memory that never escapes your dreams. And best of all landing those silver ghosts tests your skills and patience to the 10th degree. The same is true using Small Two Handers for Trout larger than 2 lbs. I was hopeing tio get into a nice Brown last week-end,(on the Bow),useing Val's 11' 6" 6/7 weight Beulah small Two Hander,Perfect for the Bow,and many of the rivers in these parts. No Luck...or skill at these fish..yet. Will try in May.. Have fun

There is actually a slightly mirrored lens that is purple/amber...specifically for low light advantages.

Understanding Polarization is a very complicated issue, The best Polarized sunglasses in the world are as advertised "Ocean Waves"..in the $300-$500 range. Here above the 49th we don't have as much to worry about ...Yet!....In the late '90's I was on their Pro Staff and learned a fair bit..but I am no expert. What I did learn is that we need protective wear at all times,especially during full days being on any water system.Here on the Ocean we fish hard during the daylight hours where the sun is at it's most difficult. The reflection off the waters is a greater threat...don't go cheap if you are very serious about long hour fishing adventures. I have seen so many guys that think they have eye protection only to be shown that what they thought were good are actually cheap and not even polarized!OceanWaves uses 5 layers of both glass and film to offer the protection needed. Prescription users are advised to look seriously at these glasses. We don't sell these but I know what I know...

Go to "oceanwaves.com" advertised as the best sun glasses in the world...and they likely are....prescription no problem...One of the original owners is a Canadian... C

It is commonly believed that the more moderate rods like the Skagit Lines a bit better. Although the more fast rods work extremely well with these lines and casting style. That Grey Loop is and exceptional Underhand rod and crosses over really well to the Skagit. The first time I ever cast a skagit line was useing a converted 11' 6" Sage Centre Pin rod,very soft ,similar to the original Lamiglas Trout Two Handers. Yet,to cast the Skagit Set-up on a 13' Hardy Angel is unbelievable! However,most of the Modern Two Handers are good for Skagit style. My go to rod for that style and basically for traditional is the Snowbee 12'6" Tamar...considered to be a moderate fast rod,very tough and light in hand...another good rod that is in my arsenal is the 12'7" Beulah...both 7/8 weights and both able to land 30 lb chinook yet very light feeling! There are many others on the market...similar to these....the Thomas and Thomas 1208 ,Scott has One as does Sage, Loomis and of course CND. We carry CND in our little store so if anyone needs some CND product please let me know. And for lines I think as time goes on you will find the Beulah Elixir lines will become as popular as the Skagit systems yet thes lines are more stealth ,especially on the Bow...very very smooth..nice tapers and presentation are sweet...IMHO C The Danielsson Reels are very good...

Having fished big rods on small streams too many times made me wonder at my mental processes until the small Switch Rods came along like the10'6" 4/5 Beulah. Totally designed for full comprehensive fishing in many many situations! Like 8' wide remote mountain streams that require a nymphing technigue or the long-ish upstream dry fly presentation. not so much about the cast ,it's about the abilities created. It is tough to imagine ever changeing from fishing a small 7'- 3 or 4 weight rod- until you get a chance to fish a 10 plus rod in the same weight category...it answers some of those deep memories about not being able to deliver a cast at some time in the past that would have given you a hook-up with some marvelous fish. Two Handers are not necessary but offer a certain amount of pleasure to the day and versatility. Yesterday I decided to drift the Upper Stamp River from Money's Pool to the Falls Park in search of Steelhead of course. The day was nice,some sun and clouds,about 12 degrees. All by myself on the river,and no Steelhead. But about 3/4 way through I saw some large May Flies hatching and shortly after notice a few Trout rising. Having no floating tips on me I changed up to a 5' clear Intermediate tip and layed out 15' of 6lb. tippet,tied on the only deer hair fly I had(Tuck's Tarantula). Figureing that the long leader would keep the fly boyant for a short time...layed out several 90' casts across the pool before I enticed a wonderful Juvinile Steelhead about 16" to the fly. Did this several times for Two Trout about the same size. Versatility is the key as much as landing a fish! C PS...Welcome back Speyghillie!

Steve, I don't know what reel you looked at but the Snowbee Cassett reels are not yet released ,anywhere! There are many reels on the market that are very good but no Cassett reels yet. Most cassett reels have a crappy drag system primarily used for Trout. However, with the surge in Spey interest there is a huge demand for a quality drag system in a cassett reel...rather than carry numerous reels at a very hefty price! If we can get some of the shops in Calgary to get off their butts and carry Snowbee products you wouldn't have to buy in BC. C

Max, Do you like underhand??

Hi Steve; Having just fished the Bow this past week-end for the first time, in water conditions that I figure are about normal for much of the year I can suggest that you look at a rod from 11'6" to 13' as a Spey rod or a Switch Rod about 10'6". The need for a major rod on the Bow is a nono;although if you already have One then use it. Several of the people casting rods this past Saturday really liked the 11'6" Beulah and the 12' Snowbee Torridge( in the $500 range). An aggressive line set-up like the Beulah Elixir Spey or Switch line and a Skagit set-up from either CND,Rio,SA, or Air Flo and of a good Shooting head from Snowbee or Loop matched up with the Snowbee running line works ideally! Considering that you are a new caster the need to keep it simply isn't too obvious from this info',however,it really is simple. The costs for new gear isn't that much more than that of Single Handed gear. The major issues usually come around the reels. Snowbee is now produceing an XSD1112 Die Cast Cassett Spey that will answer the call for the many lines we tend to use without having to have a lot of reels. This reel has 4 Cassetts and more are available if needed for about $15@...how many lines does a guy actually need? Well................! This reel does Retail for $180 ..members of this site all get a 10% discount. The reels are available in about 3 weeks.... If you choose a Switch rod then the need for a smaller reel will be apparent in the 9/10 size;large arbour...like the Snowbee XS910,although more expensive at about $350.00. PS My home Waters are on Vancouver Island and typically much faster,deeper and more difficult to fish because of the access and always being surrounded by trees or canyons. Send yuor questions this way and have fun Courtney

Nice tie Brent... C

Dido to all that and more...The ladies showed us a side of the fly fisherman that we rarely see,... very focused and determined...look out guys! C