Harps

I don't like needles.... or 6 hour waits to get a needle (our admin assistant waited 6 hours in Lethbridge because of the unorganized gong show. That's six hours exposed to every sickness that pasted through those doors).

Excellent... I'll read it closer a little later this morning, but 1 suggestion: Could you have a title for each of you points in bolded text to sum up the info. I think a title may help those folks who don't want to read all the way through. IE; 1) Fish need to breath; Water. Then go into detail about reviving them. Otherwise it looks good (maybe you could just write reguations for all the trout lakes in Alberta?). PS. Is there a size limit on the trout you can keep?

Thanks for the update Gary, and thank you Mike for letting us know what came out of it. I still think licensing guides would be an excellent idea. This is Alberta... our government is not going to enforce rod days on rivers as that would restrict enterprise. Albeta is alot different than BC and Montana, yes, but I think both have a better fisheries managment system. I disagree with the Skeena plan, but I think the CW system has alot of merit, it just needs to be tweaked. And Dutchie, I also will strongly fight if folks think that everybody from out of province would require a guide. That is bullcrap and only a money making scheme that will only benefit the unlicensed guides who will put none of that back into the resource. I would suggest that if any angler on this board feels strongly about the issue... well they should send a message to the ministers (Tourism, SRD, and Employment). And we do have alot of issues to address, OHV use, poaching, industry/agriculture, etc. But numbers from guiding will at the very least, provide the government a rough value of the commercial side of recreational fishing in Alberta... a value that is missing from all considerations. How much is your river worth to you?

Hey Dave, Do you have any background info on this meeting? Are you going to the meeting? Who is attending the meeting? Is it just fishing guides or is there some gov't reps? Is this a group starting to oppose licensing restrictions?

Great points Sun!

Thanks guys and gal!! All I want for my B-day is licensed guides.... And my G4 waders to get here in the mail!!

All hunting and fishing guides should be licensed. I have talked to poachers who said that their guide from the day before said they could fish in an out of season location. Same guy bought a box of barbed flies from the guide to fish all the way down Hwy 22 (in May). I have seen guides tossing fish. I have seen guides racing to put clients on fishing holes and getting in verbal arguments with other anglers about rights to fish. It is time for some standards to be applied. Guides make money from a public resource and use public access. I know some guides give back to the community (I know alot of great guides), but I suspect that that is the exception. Checking online there are dozens of flyfishing guides in Southern Alberta alone. Plus there are folks out of BC that guide in Alberta and even a guide in Ontario (Grindstone) that advertises that he is part of the Alberta Outfitters Assn. Add to those flyfishing guides the number of gear fishing gides and fly-in places in the north. Each shop will likely run a guide service (Lots of guiding possiblities). Then there will be additional guides that want to stay as guides. If it would cut into a shops bussiness then an individual guide could go independent. There might be an initial start-up cost but $300k a year is a farce. (I'd like to see what this is based on). If there are 100 outfitters in Alberta... $1000-$2000 a year fee for an outfitter, plus $100 per guide. Outfitters/guides pay for first aid, insurance (could be subsidized, especially through a outfitting Assn), and each guide must pay an exam fee (once ever 3 years, possible seperate exams for areas they want to fish). I would want a guide licensed to fish in the ES area, not one who spends his time in the eastern boreal. Like Montana, proof of experience in guiding in Alberta should be mandatory (I think 100-200 days) before somebody could become an outfitter. I like the idea of having professional guide qualifications (above a standard guide) as an incentive to take revelent courses and expand your knowledge in the field. Good thing for attracting clients too! Additional monies shouldn't come from the fisheries dept... they should come from the Employment and Immigration deptn (Labour codes and standards). As a corporation, I would think that a guide license would be a mandatory condition for hosting a corporate event... what if something were to go wrong? The corporation would have to take the hit. In terms of enforcement: *Self regulation would be big, because you don't want the cometition taking clients without paying, wihle you do (I hate self regulation, but it would work where money is involved, especially with word of mouth businesses). *All guide boats must be identified> decal with guide number on the bow. *Business vehicles would have a decal in the window (important for insurance and business $ also). *Guides would only have to pay once a year so it wouldn't be a per trip issue. If a guy is on the water with a group of people, check the truck for a sticker. If they are in a boat... check the boat and the trucks at the take-out. Sure some would get missed, but how much business would they get if folks start looking for guide licenses before they book a trip (The Outfitters Assn needs a website with a list of current guides). Keith's site seems to indicate that they would have no problem affording a guide/outfitters license. In Montana: http://www.foam-montana.org/faq.htm From Montana Board of Outfitters There were some good ideas in this thread on licensing guides from last month

I like my sharkskin and I have dainty office fingers. I get sick looking at the Bow though... (Is the Sharkskin worth the price difference, I doubt it)

Local is the way to go and more people should be at the farmers markets and looking for local produce (they sell S. Alberta beef in Save-on- Diamond Willow Ranches). But it may not be enough unless folks start conserving and supplementing and learning about the system. Plus hunting won't supply the bloated urban centers.

On the otherhand, It's nice to raise a few chickens over a summer to let you know that you can.... It's not about green, it's about a sustaining lifestyle and the empowerment that comes from knowing you can raise your own meat (that's a bad phrase). Raising chickens isn't for everyone, and shouldn't be, but as a society it is a good idea to put those usless acrages to work producing food for the masses in the urban centers. things are going to change so that local production becomes more important... to the point where it is all we will have. As oil prices rise, we will need local food production to offset transportation costs. Really how long is buying packaged food from China going to be viable? I envision a future with green roofs on most buildings (many with edible plants). Urban gardens in every yard. AND Large fly fishing ponds attached to aquaponic operations (water from fish tanks gets pushed thru greenhouses with hydroponic grow ops). Or I just want cheap hackle. *EDIT* What Slingshotz said!! Great post!

Thanks!!

Some good ideas here

If you have an issue please send it to SRD- foresty (they regulate and inspect cuttblock setbacks) and Fisheries and Oceans (DFO) in Calgary. Address it to the Senior Habitat Biologist Put Ocurrence on the _________ River in the Subject heading and request a response. Email it to: ReferralsCalgary@dfo-mpo.gc.ca or mail to: Calgary Office Fisheries and Oceans Canada 7646 - 8th St NE Calgary, Alberta T2E 8X4 Call 403-292-5160 for a follow-up. You could also send it straight to the Officers in Edmonton at: Conservation and Protection Fisheries and Oceans Canada Whitemud Business Park 4253 - 97th St Edmonton, Alberta T6E 5Y7 It needs to be dealt with if you think its a problem. While loggng makes more money than fishing, fish protection has stronger legislation.

Oh and it would be better for existing legit outfitters because they don't have to compete with everybody with 2 years fishing experience, a boat, a mini-van, and a website. (This point was much more eloquently suggested to me on a different webpage).

Great Guidlines from Montana! http://www.foam-montana.org/drought_guidelines.htm It's a very cool link... In Alberta call 1-800-222-6514 (and your local DFO and SRD offices) if you see something you think may be an environmental concern. Call in everything because right now the environmental agencies are on the cutting block. this time next year there may not be anybody south of Edmonton to look at issues with water, so start calling in all your complaints!! We need to demostrate to the governments that we want somebody to look after the rivers (provincial and federal)!!!

Montana has it right... http://www.foam-montana.org/faq.htm Is it time to make sure all guides in Alberta are licensed? I think so... Better statistics on use of waters. Guiding standards could be enforced (theoretically). Alberta vs Out-of-Province guides would be known. It could begin the proceedure of limiting some days of some waters to Alberta anglers only (no guides on Tuesday and Thursday for example if some places got to busy *cough* parts of the Bow/Oldman). Money collected could go back to support the resource that the guides make there money on (our public resource). What do you folks think?

Rainbow trout Brown Bull Brook Golden Cutthroat (westslope, yellowstone) Arctic Grayling Chinook Atlantic Salmon Steelhead Mountain Whitefish Lake Whitefish Mooneye Drum (Sheephead) Common Carp Channel Cat Brown Bullhead Burbot Largemouth Bass Smallmouth Bass Pumpkinseed Black Crapie Bluegill Muskie Pike Didn't get the gar to hand, but he took the fly.... Walleye Yellow Perch White Sucker Longnose Sucker Mountain Sucker SH Redhorse Chub (Lake, Creek) River Shiner longnosed Dace Gobie Goldfish Want: All saltwater species (I haven't flyfished the salt yet) All Cutthroat strains

That's quite racist and irrelevent to the tread!!

And as we speak the treatment plant on the Crow is getting an upgrade... a new pond to reduce the effluent releases even more. Need more flooding habitats- Trees falling in, wet meadows, nearby marshes, vegetated banks, and maybe a beaver pond or 2.

Great post. The University of NB is looking at adding nutrients to Atlantic Salmon streams in NB... same idea. I think first studies need to be undertaken to look at the invert populations and find out what is available to trout. If biomass isn't the limiting factor, then what is? Could be habitat (available spawning, cover, overwintering, etc), could be temperatures (I think this is the big one), or could be fishing pressure. I don't know what work has been done on Elbow Inverts?

Sundance, did you work on the "weirs" or the armouring? The Crowsnest is to straight.

It's easier to shut down industry, plus I think rec-users are as big of a problem. I think it's easier to control industry... they have strict rules they are suposed to follow... Yes there are impacts, but they minimize them, often will do habitat restoration work, and the systems recover quick. O&G has some stream crossings and permanent infrastructure, but relatively minor footprint (in terms of fisheries... much bigger problem with cutlines and roads). Loging impacts can change the whole hydrology of a watershed, but modern techniques (not scarifying) can reduce overland flows. the biggest impacts are from poor roads that have been constructed in the past 70 years. Now, even if those roads are set for reclimation, users and OHV groups are pushing to keep them open, and contribute significantly more traffic than the industrial users. It is the poor road maintenance that is the cause of a large percentage of fish habitat woes... The only real solution is to shut down all non-essential raods and trails near watercourses. Allowing walk-in fishing would limit angler presence (improve the experience) while reducing road and trail runoff would improve habitat.

Canadensis You can't compare the Bow and some of the higher montan streams. You also can't compare Montana Rivers with the same streams. Southern Alberta's rivers in crown land have much less flow, less nutrient, and lower temps, resulting in smaller fish, slower growth, and possibly smaller populations. Impacts to these systems take longer to recover from. (Most of Alberta is north of the great trout habitats. The Bow has tailwater dams which means better summer and winter temps, nutrient imputs from urban centers, and a low gradient with good trout temps. Montana has great flows, good nutrients and excellent temps all round. Both have excellent bugs and foarge fish.) The area is too busy AND unregulated to be provide a quality experience that is not dependant on speed and noise. It needs less people or better regulations, or both. Fish sizes are likely similar to what they've been and who knows about populations... its not like the Alberta government is forward thinking in terms of resource management... Montana and BC have us beat hands down.

Except for Lethbridge... All gentlemen and fine ladies here!

I posted this before... In the Oldman send complaints need to go to the Oldman Watershed Council, as well as the local MPs and MLAs, plus the ministers. For all the talk and all the crowding there aren't letters going up. The letters need to be coherent and to the point. State a problem you see, then ask how the government is fixing it or offer suggestions. If you offer suggestions request a reason why those suggestions aren't in place. Copy the letters to all, but specifically adress certain people or departments if you want a response... they will pass the buck if they can. Also mention that angling has a sustainable benefit to the economy, while a ruined landscape is not used. Also by reducing random camping, you bring dollars to communities with lodging and restaurants. The groups are fine, but lots of individual voices are needed too. Local MD of: Pincher Creek Crowsnest Pass Ranchland Foothills Oldman Watershed Council MLAs Look at the Electoral Maps to see the relevent MLAs, and make sure you address them specifically regarding questions on local economy and how regulations including fines and increased use of community lodging could help the riding (most ATV users in the Crowsnest do not reside there). Provincial SRD-Minister Ted Morton (Ask about foresty, land use, and fish and wildlife) Alberta Environment (Water Protection- including water taking at camps and all crossings and works on the water) Minister Rob Renner Tourism, Parks, and Recreation Minister Cindy Ady Federal Fisheries and Oceans Minister Gail Shea (Ask about habitat protection, monitoring of works, pollution caused by quads, killing fish in redds, and protection to COSEWIC listed Westslope Cutthroat. Environment Canada Minister Jim Prentice (from Calgary guys). Ask about pollution from quads, RVs, Migratory bird protection, and wildlife at risk. Other concerns should be forwarded to Trout Unlimited, Ecojustice, the F&G, the ACA, etc to make those groups aware that more anglers have concerns. Plus while you are out, don't forget these numbers: Report A Poacher 1-800-642-3800 #3800 (on Telus Mobility) Environmental Hotline (Call in all complaints- quads in stream, bad roads causing dirt, RV's taking water or dumping waste, littering, etc) 1-800-222-6514 No excuses now, I want to see complaints and responses posted here. As a group, we can help with follow up quetsions too.