Is Fly Fishing Humane?

[RabbiEE]

From my article this week:

 

As a rabbi and a fly fisher, one of the most common questions I get asked is about the ethics of fly fishing. Is it morally acceptable to spend one’s free-time taking a trout from the river, either to return it shortly to the stream or to eat it for food? Is fly fishing humane?

 

When fly-fishing for food, I feel on solid ethical ground. To catch a large beautiful rainbow trout, take it home and then fry up the fillets with olive oil, salt and a bit of pepper, is a delicious dinner. Even when fly fishing for food, I take steps to make the process as humane as possible. I never use a creel, to keep a fish alive for hours in the water, which seems cruel. If I decide to keep a trout, I kill the fish immediately. To keep it fresh, I bring a cooler filled with ice on every fly fishing trip.

 

I also use a very sharp knife, and I kill the fish quickly by removing it head, hoping to minimize the pain. These steps that I take were inspired by the Jewish kosher laws, a collection of rules for how and what a Jew may eat. One law states that in order for a piece of meat to be kosher, the cow must be slaughtered with a very sharp knife that has no nicks or cracks within it. That way, the cow is killed instantly and without pain. I try to end the life of the trout in a kosher-like and humane manner.

 

While I sometimes fly fish for food, most often I practice catch and release fishing. If I and all of the other fly fishers out there kept or killed every fish we caught, the rivers and streams and lakes would soon be empty of fish. Catch and release fly fishing is necessary to preserve those beautiful and special places where the trout live. I probably keep only one out of every dozen fish that I catch.

 

We can all take steps to make the catch and release process humane and ethical. When I hook a trout, I do not play it to exhaustion, since the fish may not survive even if released. I always dip my hands in the stream before holding a trout, since the oils on my skin will harm the fish. I also try to minimize the time that the fish is out of the water, quickly removing the hook from its mouth and releasing it back to the stream.

 

Even when I practice catch and release fishing, I suspect that the trout that I reel in are not having such a great time. But they will all live to see another day. To practice catch and release fishing is to acknowledge that trout are precious. With our expensive fly rods and exquisitely tied flies, we may have the ability to catch many fish on a stream.

We also have the responsibility to treat a trout with respect and dignity, for a fish is a beautiful living creature whose source is ultimately divine.

 

When fly fishing, I still sometimes feel a little bit guilty. And I am not sure there is any way around it. In fact, I would say that feeling guilty about fly fishing is probably a good thing, if that feeling motivates us to be as humane as possible with the fish. Fly-fishing is a wonderful activity that can lead us to feel close to nature. And it can also be ethically challenging. Our task is to make fly-fishing, and all activities in our lives, as ethical and upright as possible.

[Taco]

Rabbi, I like your style, come to the wild Canadian west sometime and we'll fish together.

 

Fishing and flyfishing have meant various different things to me through the years but nowadays it comes down to this; fishing is my only remaining connection to the land, when I hold a wild native fish in my hand I am reconnecting with that land. I'm gonna miss it when I can't wander these streams anymore.

[grannyknot]

To practice catch and release fishing is to acknowledge that trout are precious.

 

I like that. Thanks for the great post.

[dryfly]

Nice post. Thanks.

 

I ponder this sometimes too and it is a tough question. One rationale (and it IS arrogant) is to consider ourselves as the "hall monitors." We are keeping an eye on things in our river systems and that comes at some cost. Thus your question: is FF humane? If it means that more effort is made to protect the streams to ensure continuance of trout and trout streams, then the answer is, yes. However, on the surface C&R fishing could be argued to be inhumane as we inflict some trauma on creatures for our pleasure. Your question is sort of a koan.

 

I do know that it is our job to attempt to make sure our grandkids can get out and wander streams as we can.

 

Take care,

 

Clive

[clarki]

as much as I love to fish, i do believe that it is inhumane to do what we do to these fish.

 

M

[Pipestoneflyguy]

The question could be applied to so many aspects of our lives, We continue to build and develop, we harvest and extract, it is the common practise of our species to use nature, not live harmoniously with it, we dominate and determine the future directly, indirectly and inadvertantly of all things around us, historically, without regard for impact beyond our own limited existence. The concept and growing awareness of environmental and social conscience are philosphies that are evolving in acceptence and understanding, our society as a whole is developing a collective guilt complex over our own existence in the world, it starts early in our development, from the moment your mom first said "finish everything on your plate because there are children in Africa who have nothing to eat" we began to feel guilty for our lives as they are. The point is that, almost everything we do, within the confines of supposedly evolved ideologies could be defined as shamefull by the highest ecological standard, be it developing a strip mine, or buying a coffee in a styrofoam cup. Whether our life's reckoning is reconcilliated in front of our god, or our level of accountability is limited to ourselves, we are heavily burdened with the concept of a price to be paid.

 

How ironic is it, as a society, we are begining to grasp philosophies that governed aboriginals in their thousands of years of succesfull facilitation of a truly sustainable coexistence with their environment, only took us about 200 years to F-up that one eh ! Here we are, espousing our evolved concepts to the world as if we created them, in reality our guilt is manifesting itself into a vain effort to go back in time and find redemption through (forced, for the non-subscribing segment) attrition. Al Gore and David Suzuki are masters of capitalizing on this spectrum of emotion and feeling that spans society just like capitalists played on the unilateral desire to live the "american dream" to justify their causes as well.

 

As stewards of the watersheds we love we are both champions and enemies of that which we love so dearly. For myself flyfishing is also a way to connect with nature, but also a way to escape myself and who, or what, I really am in the world in which I live.

 

The curse of many climbers/fly fishers/trekkers/surfers etc etc is defining our own underlying motovation. Are we on a quest to find something missing ? or are we refugees temporarily escaping a world that secretly disgusts us ? is this something we love unqualified and without need for understanding, or are we just passing time in a pleasant surrounding. I would imagine the answer is different for everyone on the surface, but more and more alike the deeper we dig.

 

On Occasion, I am truly envious of those who are able to enjoy life completely oblivious to the world around them. as such, yes I feel guilty for flyfishing, but I also feel guilty about almost everything I do if I look closely enough.

 

Great post RabbiEE

[toolman]

Thanks RabbiEE, another thought provoking article.

 

I do not feel that flyfishing is inhumane at all. Fish do not feel pain in the same sense that other creatures such as mammals do and this has been examined and confirmed from a scientific perspective as well. The stress of bieng hooked and captured, causes acids to build up in the fish's body and if handled properly, most often the chemical stress is the only thing that they need to overcome, after bieng released. We should treat all of our wildlife with the utmost respect at all times of course, including the fish.

I think much of our society has developed a "Disney Movie" perspective of our wild creatures, and our culture has lost touch with the natural world. As RabbiEE and Taco mentioned, flyfishing helps us reconnect with this real world and disconnect from the TV world.

I spent many years in my youth on the trapline, hunting, fishing, wilderness trips with my horses, camping, paddling, collecting wild berries, nuts, insects, ect., as it was part of my education and heritage. I was taught what the real world was all about and that we should cherish, preserve and respect this world and all of its wonders.

I try and teach my children these same values that my families ancestors have passed down to me through the generations, for over 400 years, since arriving in Acadia (Canada) in the early 1600's. I feel it is my responsibility as a parent, to do so.

Even if my children are not intersested in flyfishing, they still join me out in the wilderness and are learning to respect, appreciate and conserve the magical world we live in and all of its inhabitants.

[rhuseby]

I'm with you Toolman. My kids go fishing and hunting with me, and they understand that you have to care for wildlife and the environment as part of those activities. My son has decided that he's not ready to hunt yet, because he isn't sure of making a clean shot. When he feels he's ready he will, but I just tell him that's what respecting wildlife is about. Rabbiee, good job starting a very thought provoking thread.

[OneMoreLastCast]

Sorry if this offends, but I don’t agree that this is a great post. Thought provoking yes, but great, I have to say no IMO.

If you ask the question whether or not fishing is humane or not, and saying that sometimes you feel guilty, I believe that you do feel it is not humane and should not be doing it.

Having decided that it isn't humane and feeling guilty yourself, deep down, you must feel that noone should be doing it, thus the post on a board like this one, full of people that love to fish.

If you feel guilty while doing something, you should not be doing it and should have made that decision before you began doing what you would feel guilty about doing. I would never judge anyone for hunting, but I know that I would not feel right personally doing it, so I don't. If someone decides to hunt, good on them, it's just not for me. Although I don't hunt myself, I definitely understand the love for it, the need for it and really like it when someone shares their meat with me.

I respect everything involved in fishing, and never take it for granted. The last feeling I could ever imagine having while fishing is guilt.

The fact is that we are the top dogs on this beautiful planet and hooking a fish is so far from something any human being should be feeling guilty about compared, to everything else going on out there. We continue to multiply and encroach on wild lands and water, often if it wasn't for fisherman, the fish would not be there to be caught.

I have no regrets and feel no guilt for anything I've done, or will do in the future, because if I knew that it might cause feelings like you say you experience while fishing, I didn’t do it and won’t in the future.

 

I live my life to be happy and make the people around me happy. By being active in the conservation of the waters I love to fish, I can ensure that those waters will be properly maintained and conserved so that my great grandchildren can hopefully share some of my experiences.

 

Please don't get me wrong, I respect your feelings and opinion, I just don't share them.

 

I want to look forward, to looking back.

[Hawgstoppah]

Geez MTB... you hit the nail on the head for what I was gonna say. If you have any guilty feelings about fishing, maybe it's in the way you handle the fish or something, but if your taking the utmost care and attention to doing as little impact on the fish or the ecosystem as you can, and still feel guilt, you probably should take up knitting (although, those poor sheep that we take the wool off all the time, is that humane to do?).

[toolman]

I think it is a very good article, which has lead to a great discussion. Thanks again RabbiEE and to all who have posted, for sharing your perspective and feelings about your flyfishing experience.

[OneMoreLastCast]

I agree that it is indeed a well written article and I was thankful to have something like it to read at work, (being that I just sit here and wait for something good to get posted). It did as you said, got me thinking.

 

I said I don't mean to offend, and I don't. I just see a lot of contradicting points in the original post, and some of the ones that followed.

 

I am not religious at all and would never judge someone for their chosen faith. I just find it a little hypicritical for someone with a faith that obviously believes in God, to say that they feel guilty for doing something like fly fishing.

 

If they truly had strong belief in their faith, I would think that they would not feel any guilt at all when it comes to fishing. I would think they would think along the same lines as God put Cows on earth to feed us, etc., thus it would make more sense to me if they were to say that they don't feel any guilt because God put fish in the Waters to feed us and/or provide us with a reason to enjoy nature, (One of his creations), whether you keep the fish or not.

 

As I said, I am not religious, but have studied it and continue to study for my own reasons, (You may have noticed the ring on my finger). I don't judge anyone for their beliefs or faith, but IMO, if you post an article, well written or not, with religious overtones, you're bound to get people that strongly agree, and/or strongly disagree.

 

Trust me, I could debate this type of thing 'til the cows come home, but won't. (Who am I kidding, I probably will)

 

I didn't mean it to sound like I was jumping all over him by saying I didn't agree that it was a great post. I just disagree pretty strongly on some of the feelings RabbiEE expresses in the article, where at the same time, there were things that I really agreed with as well. This is why I had a bit of a problem with the post itself. It touched on the aspects of fishing that we all love, but threw in the guilt factor that I believe noone should feel when fishing.

 

I am just happy that I can live my life without suffering from these types of feelings, (and yes, you do sense some undertones there).

[hydropsyche]

I think Pipestoneflyguy hit the nail on the head. Very good post.

 

Do I feel guilt sometime? Yes. I feel guilt when I swat a fly or kill a spider that shouldn't be in my daughter's bedroom. I'm not ashamed to admit I feel guilt but still fish. I don't thinks its hypocritical. Guilt is a governor to our actions. Can you imagine a world without guilt?

[Pipestoneflyguy]

No need to apologize MTB, at least, I take no offence what-so-ever to your thoughts - I think we may be taking different things out of Eric's post, thats all

 

What I see is a simple message that by examining and reasoning our decisions against an ethical or moral perspective we can seek to find the best possible way of doing something which is intrinsically contradictory to an ideal.

 

My last paragraph (prev post) wasn't worded so well, it was meant to be a little tongue in cheek, what I was trying to relay is that I determine my own guilt, not just by my actions, but more-so how I choose to measure them. For example, when I am fishing alone in an isolated spot, I may know that there is not a Conservation Officer, or any other person around for miles, I still pinch my barbs, even though doing so may reduce the number of fish I land, My knowledge of how not doing this affects the mortality rate of the fish I catch is what drives the action, but it is not this fact, or the logic alone, that motivates me to do it, it is how I would feel, if I chose to disregard the knowledge, that ensures I always pinch my barbs. Essentially a little bit of guilt keeps me in line with right and wrong as I have reasoned those things to be.

 

I do believe that the way I handle fish is within best practices, I respect and use regulations, guidelines, and knowledge gained from resources like this site, and as such, I really do feel no guilt about flyfishing because of my ability to reason, but that said, I try to be an open minded person, I will even try to empathize with the feelings of an extremist view such as those of PETA members, I do not subscribe to their opinions but knowing them, and their arguments, helps me understand my own reasoning better. I can be comfortable in the knowledge that I am willing to ask myself questions I may not like the answer to, but in doing so I am better educated and can make sound educated judgements.

 

Guilt is a reflection of our personal beliefs, and it is something we can manipulate to our advantage, both personally and in others, I think Eric is just pointing out how this can be a good thing in fly fishing.

 

I like any thread that forces me to sit and think before responding, even if I am weak at iterating my thoughts

[OneMoreLastCast]

Very well said Pipestone.

I agree with most of what he says, and I too found that it was tough to get the words for what I wanted to say correct.

The only thing I really want to say is that I think people should do the right thing because it is the right thing to do. I know this is driven by ethics and morals, but that can be taught or passed down by just teaching that it is the right thing to do and not using guilt as a motivator.

[toolman]

I think RabbiEE is in a unique position that most do not fully appreciate. Bieng a teacher of ethics and morality in his community, he searches his conscience, knowledge and experience to give a truthfull and sincere answer to the valid question that was posed to him by his neighbors.

I will give him this advice...

"I do not go flyfishing to feed my body, but my spirit. I release the fish unharmed, and all acts of mercy feed my soul"

[fisher26]

often if it wasn't for fisherman, the fish would not be there to be caught.

 

 

 

Well said.

[reevesr1]

Guess I'll wade into this one. Big surprise, huh?

 

I have been on and off religous through my life. I'm in an on stage right now, and fully intend to stay that way. That being said, I must say my active or inactive belief in God has in no way impacted my feeling on the ethics of fishing. While I fully believe we should be conservation minded, I believe that because I want the fish to still be around for future generations. Not because I have ever spent a second wondering about the pain, suffering, etc. of any individual fish. I know many people when they keep fish to eat will try to kill the fish as painlessly as possible. While I guess I can see where if you project any ability to "feel" to a fish, you would want to limit it's suffering, but for me the fish has no ability to feel. Suffering assumes a higher brain function that I don't think fish possess. I kept two saltwater fish to eat this week. I put them on a stringer and when they died, they died. I know that for many of you this may seem harsh, but I didn't give it a second thought. Any quite frankly if I did think they could truly feel, I don't think I could fish. The guilt would truly then be too great. I could not in good conscience allow anything to suffer for my enjoyment. Now I must say that it is possible that my "belief" that fish do not suffer is directly related to my desire to catch them for my enjoyment, if that makes sense.

 

As an aside, my father shrimped for a living for many years and I ran a boat myself for awhile. Should I feel guilt over the millions of shrimp I allowed to die? Or the bycatch involved?

 

Please do not read any tone of voice into this. I am in no way questioning anyone elses opinion, just stating my own. And in agreement with MTB, Pipestone, et al, this is a hard subject to succinctly state one's feelings.

[fisher26]

the fish has no ability to feel.

(rickr)

 

 

That kind of reminds me of what people use to say about black people that they "could not feel pain" or that certain races couldn’t feel or think like we do... I'm not comparing people to fish though and I don't think fish can "feel" at the same level or intensity is human beings, however it is pretty ignorant to proclaim they do not feel pain, every animal feels pain and have a "fear" of death or else not much would exist. It is life’s ability to avoid death (or try to), which keeps things going.

 

If you do not believe fish can feel next time you catch one stick a needle in it and watch it squirm, you cannot tell me it does not feel at least some form of pain... (by the way I could never do that!)

 

I do not have a problem killing a fish as long is it's humane, and sustainable that being said I hardly ever keep fish because few streams are at there true carrying capacity and most streams are better of with the fish in them than out.

[OneMoreLastCast]

I agree with Rick on the pain issue. Of course fish feel pain, but it is not the same pain and understanding of what is happening compared to what we feel.

For example, take a gaff hook comparable in scale to you as a size 8 hook is to an average trout. Stick it in your upper lip and put comparable pressure on it for 2 minutes. Now tell me how long it is before you feel like eating?

Many of us have hooked and either released or lost fish, only to catch them again within a couple hours.

 

I don't know how it was done, but a fish biologist once told me that trout do not have feeling in their upper mouth, so if hooked in the upper lip, they potentially don't feel anything. Like I said, I don't know how the study was done or how conclusions were found, but if true, it would explain why a fish goes back to feeding right away.

 

I didn't mean to sound judgemental of RabbiEE's Faith, becuase I in no way meant to. It might be wrong, but I was generalizing on the guilt being used to run a person's conscience whether they have a faith or not.

So if I did sound judgemental, I apologize and please don't take it that way. I would have felt similar whether or not the article was written by a Rabbi or not.

 

As far as it being humane to kill fish to eat, I am torn on that one. Personally, I don't know anyone that "Needs" to keep a wild fish in order to eat. If that is the goal, to eat, save your money on Fly Fishing gear and go down to Safeway.

Keep and eat fish you catch because you want to, you like the taste of a nice high mountain stream trout, because it is good for the fishery, etc., but I seriously can't buy into someone putting the fish out of its misery as quickly as possible being considered more humane than releasing a fish.

[lonefisher]

This reminds me of a certain issues and hot topics section that I used to get myself into lots of trouble in........ not gonna touch this one with a 10 foot pole

[RabbiEE]

Sorry if this offends, but I don’t agree that this was a great post. Thought provoking yes, but great, I have to say no IMO.

If you ask the question whether or not fishing is humane or not, and saying that sometimes you feel guilty, I believe that you do feel it is not humane and should not be doing it.

 

Please don't get me wrong, I respect your feelings and opinion, I just don't share them.

 

I want to look forward, to looking back.

 

I just want to say how much I enjoyed reading everyone's responses to my post. You all had very interesting things to say.

 

I do want to respond to this one. First, I am not offended at all when people disagree with me and a good debate is always healthy.

 

I do however think that it is ok to feel a little guilty and still love to fly fish. The time I spend in the streams casting for trout is really important to me and I would never give it up. But when I kill a fish, I do feel the magnitude of the action and it weighs me down a bit. I can see the contradiction in feeling a bit guilty but still fishing, but I can live with it. In my view, life is full of such contradictions.

[RabbiEE]

Thanks RabbiEE, another thought provoking article.

 

I do not feel that flyfishing is inhumane at all. Fish do not feel pain in the same sense that other creatures such as mammals do and this has been examined and confirmed from a scientific perspective as well. The stress of bieng hooked and captured, causes acids to build up in the fish's body and if handled properly, most often the chemical stress is the only thing that they need to overcome, after bieng released. We should treat all of our wildlife with the utmost respect at all times of course, including the fish.

 

Hi Toolman. I hope that you are right and that the fish do not feel pain. I suspect that they do not, but I see contradictory articles on various places on the web. I do agree with respecting all of earth's creatures. I think that is our responsibilty as masters of this planet. Thanks.

[OneMoreLastCast]

You're a class act Eric.

In my travels I have had some good healthy debates with the fine people in the Jewish community and I was hoping you wouldn't take any offense to anything I wrote.

This will offend some, but I am sure I wouldn't have made the same comments in response if the article/post was made by someone of other faiths because I know they would not have taken any opposition as well as you.

Knowing, and hoping you would take it as you did allowed me, and others, to speak their minds. Thank you.

[Christofficer]

Whether they feel pain or not, you shouldn't feel guilty fishing. The entire basis that we're taught on is to do good things, and to not do bad things. If you feel guilty, that means something inside you tells you what you're doing is wrong. It's entirely up to you to decide whether or not to proceed doing it or not, but when I feel guilty about something I know it is wrong and I don't do it. What RabbiEE is probably meaning is he feels guilty BECAUSE he THINKS he might mishandle a fish, or he thinks he is hurting the fish by hooking it. I don't think he feels guilty that he takes part in the act of being a fisherman, but that he might be causing harm to a live creature. But that's just what I'm assuming. And you know what happens when you assume....

 

 

Personally I don't feel bad at all about fishing. I have full confidence in myself when playing and handling the fish. I do however feel bad about keeping a fish, even if it's in a place where you're supposed to keep them. Still don't feel guilty, just hoping I don't cause any pain to them.