Big 3 Auto Bailout

[TerryH]

A Japanese company (Toyota) and an American company (Ford Motor Co.) decided

to have a canoe race on the Missouri River. Both teams

practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the

race.

 

On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.

 

The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate

the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of

senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate

action.

 

Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person

steering, while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people

rowing.

 

Feeling a deeper study was in order; American management hired a

consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second

opinion.

 

They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat,

while not enough people were rowing.

 

Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent

another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team’s management structure

was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering

superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.

 

They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2

people rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was

called the ‘Rowing Team Quality First Program,’ with meetings, dinners

and free pens for the rowers. There was discussion of getting new

paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices

and bonuses. The pension program was trimmed to ‘equal the

competition’ and some of the resultant savings were channeled into

morale boosting programs and teamwork posters.

 

The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

 

Humiliated, the American management laid-off one rower, halted

development of a new canoe, sold all the paddles, and canceled all

capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was

distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses.

 

The next year, try as he might, the lone designated rower was unable

to even finish the race (having no paddles,) so he was laid off for

unacceptable performance, all canoe equipment was sold and the next

year’s racing team was out-sourced to India.

 

[dryfly]

Not my doing.

 

[jksnijders]

 

 

I was wondering when this subject would turn up... Great posts guys.

[Guest 420FLYFISHIN]

here's hoping i still have a job to go to after Christmas, but if not is any one looking for a hard worker?

 

[SteveM]

here's hoping i still have a job to go to after Christmas, but if not is any one looking for a hard worker?

 

Maybe...

...can you pass a drug test?

[Guest 420FLYFISHIN]

how close do you look? If your like most Chrysler customers i should pass with flying colors.

[WesG]

Here's something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US, claiming they can't make money paying American wages.

 

TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US. The last quarter's results:

 

TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses.

 

Ford folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting bonuses... and now wants the Government to 'bail them out'.

 

IF THIS WEREN'T SO TRUE IT MIGHT BE FUNNY

 

[WesG]

I also find it ironic that there is an add at the top of the page for the ALL NEW H3T Hummer Truck!!!!!! Its the most versatile hummer ever!!!! except for in the mall parking lots where 95% of them end up!!!

[darrinhurst]

This is why I sell Honda.

[Guest 420FLYFISHIN]

and why i will ALWAYS drive a japanes car. I F'in love my subaru and my old honday CRX

[Guest Sundancefisher]

okay...I just have to scream out this one sentence cause it is true and just unbelievable.

 

THE AUTO MAKERS ARE GETTING 15 BILLION DOLLARS...AND THAT IS ONLY TO HELP THEM LAST 2-3 MONTHS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

wow...that feels better... Now someone explain to me how that is not throwing good money after bad?????

[Weedy1]

I say give the money to the Japanese to build better and more efficient vehicles in and for North America. If you give them a billion they will turn it into 10 billion and employ 20000 people in the process.

 

I hate to say it but the North American auto industry has gone for *hit mainly due to a bunch of overpaid, greedy, lazy, UNION workers.

 

(How's that for a troll? Wish it was.)

[jksnijders]

how close do you look? If your like most Chrysler customers i should pass with flying colors.

 

 

That's awesome..

[jksnijders]

I hate to say it but the North American auto industry has gone for *hit mainly due to a bunch of overpaid, greedy, lazy, UNION workers.

 

 

 

Goddamn Right.

[Guest 420FLYFISHIN]

i would love to work under the auto union....$44/h to put doors on trucks! i can do that.

 

if they were all to take a $5 pay cut they auto makers would be fine and have no need for the people money.

 

but at that same time it would be irresponsible for the country to let them dissolve in to nothingness. It would look just as bad for their economy as it would if we let Quebec leave. the world would view the further instability and the entire country would colaps (further).

[Weedy1]

i would love to work under the auto union....$44/h to put doors on trucks! i can do that.

 

if they were all to take a $5 pay cut they auto makers would be fine and have no need for the people money.

 

but at that same time it would be irresponsible for the country to let them dissolve in to nothingness. It would look just as bad for their economy as it would if we let Quebec leave. the world would view the further instability and the entire country would colaps (further).

 

I Googled "average auto worker pay" after you posted. Here are some of the links that came up.

If there is any truth to the compensation these people are getting then as far as I'm concerned they can blow the bailout out their ass. Let them sink. It's time for a reality check!!

 

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2007/07/uaw-pr...-of-market.html

 

http://rightvoices.com/2008/11/18/average-...e-of-nearly-40/

 

but at that same time it would be irresponsible for the country to let them dissolve in to nothingness.

 

I don't believe it would be irresponsible. The union lobbyists have had the frickin governments by the balls for years and it's time to put an end to this crap. They cut their own throats and now it's time to let them bleed out.

[OneMoreLastCast]

I hate to say it but the North American auto industry has gone for *hit mainly due to a bunch of overpaid, greedy, lazy, UNION workers.

 

(How's that for a troll? Wish it was.)

Okay, I'll bite Weedy. Get ready for the hook set.

 

Wow....for such an intelligent person Weedy, this is the single most ignorant statement I think I've ever seen posted on this board.

 

I refuse to respond to any "Flames" based on uneducated or false information, but do a little research on what UNIONS have done for the individual worker over history. Because of the Fight the Unions fought in the past, the Non-Union Sector now benefits. I will respond to intelligent, fact based posts.

 

The Brain Washing by Big Corporation for years has finally sunk in making people actually believe that Unions are unnecessary or even a bad thing. If Unions were good for the companies they would all be Union. They are not good for the company, but are good for the Worker, so Unions are becoming a thing of the past.

 

Unions have helped not only make workers quality of life better, but also help stabilize economies in the past, which would be a nice perk right about now I'd say.

 

• Unions raise wages of unionized workers by roughly 20% and raise compensation, including both wages and benefits, by about 28%.

 

• Unions reduce wage inequality because they raise wages more for low- and middle-wage workers than for higher-wage workers, more for blue-collar than for white-collar workers, and more for workers who do not have a college degree.

 

• Strong unions set a pay standard that nonunion employers follow. For example, a high school graduate whose workplace is not unionized but whose industry is 25% unionized is paid 5% more than similar workers in less unionized industries.

 

• The impact of unions on total nonunion wages is almost as large as the impact on total union wages.

 

• The most sweeping advantage for unionized workers is in fringe benefits. Unionized workers are more likely than their non-unionized counterparts to receive paid leave, are approximately 18% to 28% more likely to have employer-provided health insurance, and are 23% to 54% more likely to be in employer-provided pension plans.

 

• Unionized workers receive more generous health benefits than non-unionized workers. They also pay 18% lower health care deductibles and a smaller share of the costs for family coverage. In retirement, unionized workers are 24% more likely to be covered by health insurance paid for by their employer.

 

• Unionized workers receive better pension plans. Not only are they more likely to have a guaranteed benefit in retirement, their employers contribute 28% more toward pensions.

 

• Unionized workers receive 26% more vacation time and 14% more total paid leave (vacations and holidays).

 

Unions also look out for the best interest of our aging work force by ensuring that they are protected from the company forcing them out to be replaced by younger workers by the writing of clauses in the Collective Agreements stating it to be required to have one worker over 50 for a certain number of workers under 50.

 

Unions play a pivotal role both in securing legislated labor protections and rights such as safety and health, overtime, and family/medical leave and in enforcing those rights on the job. Because unionized workers are more informed, they are more likely to benefit from social insurance programs such as unemployment insurance and workers compensation. Unions are thus an intermediary institution that provides a necessary complement to legislated benefits and protections.

 

Teachers, Nurses, Doctors and a large number of Others that have and will continue to have an affect on your lives. Take away the the fact they are Unionized and the cost of Medical attention and your children's education could potentially go thru the roof. It would eventually eliminate the middle class....It would be a lot like it was back in the 1800's when kids were crawling thru coal mine shafts, etc. instead of going to school, (pre-union).

 

 

Unless you've worked and experienced both sides, you can't talk based on what your company/government has drilled into your heads over the last few decades.

 

In the end, I could care less if someone chooses to work in a Union or Non-Union environment. But if a person works for the same number of Years in a Union as a person that works Non-Union, the worker with no pension might wish they had better hind sight when it's all said and done.

 

A moderate percentage increase in Wages in a Multi-Billion dollar industry could not possibly cause the downfall. Terry's original post is a brilliant break down of the problem that caused it and how the "I Hate Unions" attitude was brought out by it, or by what is going on, once again shows how Big Company influence in Alberta

reigns supreme and people continue to be their little puppets. How a person could think it to be wrong that an individual worker make more money, have more rights in the workplace, receive a pension, etc. is very confusing and shows that people are playing right into their hands.

 

In the end, the Auto Makers will some how twist it around to dump the blame on the Work Force and High wages to add fuel to their cause which will eventually eliminate Unions. This will put all of the power into the Big Companies hands which will allow them to lower wages, take away pay for overtime, remove benefits, etc. This all saves the Companies money, thus making them more money.

 

The problem with the North American Auto Makers has nothing to do with Employee Wages. It has all to do with the "Executive Factor" and if you check it out, you'll see it is true.

 

To each his own, but....

 

Did I mention I'm getting paid Double Time today to write this at work.....

 

 

[Guest 420FLYFISHIN]

i was going to flame weedy but you really got to the point. I have no liking for any north american vehicle but it take a pretty closed minded individual to to just say close em all down and good ridens. There are far more economic consequences to letting this happen then most people can see.

 

If it falls investors from around the world will inevitably pull all their money out of the US and unfortunately that means CANADA too. In their minds if the larges companies in the country cant stay afloat then why are any other companies in the country any different.

 

i think thats all i really have to say about this but im just hopping i can pay rent in the new year.

[Weedy1]

I was only complaining of the "overpaid, greedy, lazy, UNION workers", not the hard working, deservedly well paid, loyal brothers that make this continent the best place to live in the world.

 

Here's some more fuel for the fire. The bottom line is we're doomed. Bailouts won't work and all those cushy union pensions will evaporate. I will be me paying for them with all that hard earned private sector coin I've made myself rich with!

Flame on!

 

(It's from Youtube so it must be correct.)

 

Click here if the movie does not play.

[jksnijders]

 

Did I mention I'm getting paid Double Time today to write this at work.....

 

 

Well put. I understand your point of view now..

 

My previous post may have seemed a little knee-jerk, but here's my perspective. I can say with a fair degree of certainty that I will never work a union job. In the case of the auto sector, I think there are obviously quite a few factors involved, but it's hard for me not to think that the Autoworkers union help matters much. I'm blown away by the wages I hear about on an auto assembly line, for what I'm sure people would say is "hard" work. Which is great for the guy cashing the checks, for sure. I guess the scenario that comes to mind is the one of killing the goose that laid the golden egg. All the overhead those outfits drop on pensions, benefits, executive bonuses, etc. etc. are all just nails in the coffin I'm sure. Especially when your business is becoming increasingly un-competitive. I guess it's just hard for me to stomach that my taxes are possibly going to be paying for a bailout of an industry that runs like that. I think that unions have definitely done good things for workers, but its quite a bit different world from the ages of heavy industrialization where I've read much of abuses by employers. I guess it seems to me that I just don't like the "that's not my job" mentality. I was talking to a guy the other day who was heading to Hibernia, which is apparently unionized. He had some pretty interesting stories about that, for sure. I'm sure that outlook permeates a business to the point where politics and bullshit get fairly well in the way of actually getting anything done. Perhaps people lose sight of the big picture, then find themselves in the position the Auto sector is now in. I agree to let those companies go tits up would probably have serious consequences, I just find it all a bitter pill to swallow.

[Weedy1]

Post deleted do to hijack abort.

[Weedy1]

Illegal Immigrants Returning To Mexico For American Jobs

Dec 13, 2008 | Issue 42•18

 

 

MEXICO CITY—As dozens of major American corporations continue to move their manufacturing operations to Mexico, waves of job-seeking Mexican immigrants to the United States have begun making the deadly journey back across the border in search of better-paying Mexican-based American jobs.

 

"I came to this country seeking the job I sought when I first left this country," said Anuncio Reyes, 22, an undocumented worker who recrossed the U.S. border into Mexico last month, three years after leaving Mexico for the United States to work as an agricultural day laborer. "I spent everything I had to get back here. Yes, it was dangerous, and I miss my home. But as much as I love America, I have to go where the best American jobs are."

 

A group of Mexican workers make the dangerous trek home across the Rio Grande for their lunch break.

 

Reyes now works as a spot-welder on the assembly line of a Maytag large-appliance plant and earns $22 a day, most of which he sends back to his family in the U.S., who in turn send a portion of that back to the original family they left in Mexico. Like many former Mexican-Americans forced by circumstance to become American-Mexicans, Reyes dreams of one day bringing his relatives to Mexico so that they, too, may secure American employment in Mexico.

 

Despite the considerable risk illegal immigrants face in returning across the border, many find the lure of large U.S. factory salaries hard to resist—at 15 percent of the pay of corresponding jobs in America, these positions pay three times what Mexican jobs do.

 

Still, the danger is very real. When 31-year-old illegal Arizona resident Ignacio Jimenez sought employment at an American plant in Mexico, he was shot at by Mexican border guards as he attempted to illegally enter the country of his citizenship, pursued by U.S. immigration officials who thought he might be entering the country illegally, and fired upon again by a second group of U.S. Border Patrol agents charged with keeping valuable table-busing and food-delivery personnel inside American borders.

 

"It was a nightmare," Jimenez said. "Many became disoriented and panicked, and some were mixed in with immigrants going the other way across the Rio Grande and ended up swimming to the wrong country."

 

He added: "My cousin almost drowned. They fished him out and sent him back to wash dishes at T.G.I. Friday's."

 

Many say the trip across the border as illegal Mexican-American emigrants offers them a chance to land the American jobs in Mexico they never have been able to get as illegal Mexican-American immigrants in the U.S.

 

"It has always been my goal to have a good American job," Johnson Controls technician Camilla Torres, 27, said. "Many Mexicans now see Mexico as the land of opportunity. Mexicans will not stop trying to get here, no matter how much the Mexicans wish we would not."

 

Indeed, the trend of illegal re-emigration is causing great resentment among the local Mexican population, and tension between Mexicans and illegally re-entered Mexicans—dubbed repatriados—continues to build.

 

"I hate these Mexicans, always coming back here to Mexico from America and taking American jobs from the Mexicans who stayed in Mexico," said 55-year-old former Goodyear factory manager Juan-Miguel Diaz, who lost his job to a better-trained repatriado last March. "Why don't they go back to where they went to?"

 

Still, Jimenez, Reyes, and hundreds of others say they have no choice.

 

"The American Dream is alive and well in Mexico," Reyes said. "If I work hard, save my money, and plan well, I will be able to send my children to a good school—and who knows? If they study hard, perhaps they will get jobs someday at the new plant General Motors is building in China."

[adams]

Here's my 2 cents on the subject (for what it's worth).

 

Unions were born out of good intentions... people were being forced to work in dangerous and unfair conditions and circumstances, and no one should have to do that to earn a living. Unfortunately, they have morphed into irrational "gangs" motivated by greed and blackmail. Wages and benefits have now become the goal, not a safe and dignified workplace. Just because you can somehow "get" something, doesn't make it right or justified, and it just comes around in a vicious circle anyway as companies have to charge you more to support increases labour costs. With the recent globalization of the economy that's now coming around to bite us.

 

Unions alone are not to blame though, the Executives show the same lust for un-earned gains too; they just do it behind closed doors instead of in public rallies.

 

Now they are asking me to finance them. Well, as your new boss, here's what has to happen:

 

(1) Union power is limited to it's original intention... no one works in an unsafe or harassed workplace. In terms of wages and benefits, you are only paid what you are worth (much less than the current). If you don't like it, go work somewhere else. The natural balance will fall into place.

(2) Executive compensation is severely cut back and transparency is added so that I see and approve of it all. The assertion that you have to pay these multi-million dollar salaries and bonuses to get good management is absurd. I see and work with people every day who are just as smart (or smarter), work just as hard (or harder) and achieve just as much (or more) than these grossly over-paid execs. There is not a race of super-smart people out there that dwarf us all in intellectual capability. As a guide, why should any Exec get paid more than a skilled surgeon, a cancer-researcher, or even the Prime Minister? Again, just because you can somehow scam the salary doesn't make it right or justified.

 

Not trying to sound like a Communist, but just trying to point out that greed on both ends of the spectrum seems to be the root of the problem here.

 

Rant over.

[Taco]

also a company like GM does not cease to exist it if goes into bankruptcy. Court ordered bankruptcy protection just gives a company time to reorganize. Hard to believe? Air Canada, American, United, and Northwest Airlines have all been bankrupt @ one time or another and there's still 10s of thousands of people earnin' good wages in those companies.

 

Let the f***ers fold

[Guest Sundancefisher]

The news last night stated that the average Auto Worker makes #28/hour.

 

With incentives, benefits, overtime, retirement etc... it gets boosted to $72/hour...

 

The union needs to get it's head out of the dark moist brown place and look at job security for who can still work...and the management needs to be fired completely across the board. Anyone Manager or higher should be fired!

 

Cheers

 

Sun