DonAndersen Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Guys, This was posted on a forum that deals with non-plastic rods. Thought you all might be interested. Don My personal opinion, which many of the older authorities shared, is that greenheart is the best rod material for Spey casting. It's true that greenheart rods are a bit heavier than split cane, but greenheart is far more limber and has a significantly greater capacity to store energy. A greenheart rod can put more oomph into the Spey cast, and it can cope easily with the changes of direction without being unduly stressed. A 14' greenheart rod typically uses a 7 wt. line. The rod I most commonly use for Spey casting is a 14' Grant Vibration made by Playfair of Aberdeen. It can pick up and lay out an entire 7 wt. line, and the forward cast will pull backing from the reel. My wife can Spey cast just about an entire fly line with that rod. I have some photos somewhere of Karen throwing a line right across the Madeleine, standing in the river with trees and bank right behind her. It is advisable to use spliced joints on greenheart rods. Greenheart is a strong, water-resistant wood, but I understand that it tends to break a ferrule joints. Greenheart rods were simply turned on a lathe. I understand that the wood dust is toxic to breathe, and one needs to wear a mask when working with it. The best split cane rods for Spey casting were generally believed to be those made by Jim Payne. Payne double-built his larger two-handed rods specifically to take the stress of Spey casting, which is hard on cane rods. My own experience persuades me that Payne rods really are better for Spey casting than other split cane models. An exception is probably those spliced split cane models made by Sharpe and/or Farlow a few decades ago. They were obviously made for it. I suppose the old steel-centered Hardy's were as well, but the actions of older British split cane rods are not typically much admired today. Yet, it's true. Greenheart rods wobble in the hand. They flex, a little, at least, on the slightest provocation like a whip. But, they do store more energy, too. I suppose they have more ultimate flexibility than cane. Perhaps modulus is the measure of ability to store energy? I'd have to look it up. I tried the newfangled graphite rods out in SF at the Golden Gate Club. There are people who can cast well with them, but I can tell you that they aren't all that much lighter than cane or even greenheart, and they are a lot more work to cast. One lightly loads one's greenheart rod by comparison. When I first tried casting the graphite rod, the line wouldn't straighten out. I found you really needed to muscle those things. Of course, like all plastic rods, they have no feel, no life. David Zincavage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speyghillie Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Hi Don , I like the post, i fish on the Spey wih a couple in there 80's and they still fish Greenheart, to fish Greenheart Salmon rods requires a different technic of Speycasting, a more upright style of Speycasting, something between a Highland switch cast and a modern speycast. In the 1890's Alexander Grant cast a distance of 65yrds with out stripping line in, cast the whole line on the finest Greenheart rod, or finest Spey rod ever built. The Grant Vibration was the finest ever built, but when he sold the company to Playfair they made some major changes and it was never the same rod. Alexander Grant tuned every Vibration rod so it would be the same pitch all the way through the rod,not easy on a rod that tapers, his rod splices had a special desgn to help carry the same pitch all the way through, he never liked ferrule joints and the splice idea came to him while working in a hairdressers shop in Inverness. The old greenhearts where kept outside all year, modern heating is a killer on Greanheart rods. Anyway the greatest Speycaster ever was Alexander Grant and the Greatest Double- Handed rod ever built was the Grant Vibration, before he sold it to Playfair. Gordon. P.S i am meeting up with Alexander Grants Grandson in a couple of weeks, and hopefully if i get time i will be able to get the whole Alexander Grant story together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverDoctor Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Had the opportunity to cast an old Greenheart with no markings last spring in BC and was impressed. Mind you splicing on a rod is interesting. I love bamboo, and fish it on small streams there is something about a rod with life. Also fish an old 7 wt Southbend on the bow. Mind you I need to rewrap it for next season. Does this mean you'll be making Greenheart rods? He He, Have you built any cane Speys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonAndersen Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 SilverDoctor, Am I going to build a greenheart - nope. Can it be done. Sure - I've heard that greenheart is used for ram rods for black powder rifles. Somebody has it. There is a book out now in how to build a round rod called "Making Strip-Built Fly Rods from Various Woods on a Lathe" by John Betts. See: http://www.rodbuildingforum.com/index.php?showtopic=14999 for a review. I have a 7'6" 5wt. greenheart by Sharpes. Casts well. As far as building Spey rods. You need a use for them. I won't be fishing steelhead anymore so I won't require one [ or more]. A friend Ron Grantham who builds a great spey rod see: http://members.shaw.ca/pisces45/ and Bob Clay of the Kispoix Valley also build spey cane rods. Bob has been @ the FF show in Calgary. See his site @ http://www.riverwatchrods.com/index.html catch ya' Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speyghillie Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Check out www.clanrods.com Harry is a master rod builder who makes Greenheart rods to the exact Spec of the Grant Vibration rods, rod builder to the Royal family and the last traditional rod builder in Scotland. Gordon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whistler Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I have been fortunate enoiugh to have gotten to cast bamboo two handers by both Ron Grantham and Bob Clay and have to agree that these two (Canadian) builders are at the top of their game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speyghillie Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Forgot to add that there was a great silk line made the 1890's that was made in Canada, there are still a few about, slightly darker in colour when cleaned up, a dark thread running the full length of the line. Around the same time as the multi- tip line was invernted. Gordon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogilvie Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Forgot to add that there was a great silk line made the 1890's that was made in Canada, there are still a few about, slightly darker in colour when cleaned up, a dark thread running the full length of the line. Around the same time as the multi- tip line was invernted. Gordon. Have a nice 3 pc.12' Sharpes that was traded in ...have been playing with it a bit and really like the early Windcutter on it...if you can find One of the Silk Lines that would be good.. Although the general fishing applications for that set-up on the Island at the moment isn't Ideal...soon the fresh Winter Run Steelhead will be making their appearance, within weeks...however the down side now is that the water levels are just now shooting up! C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverDoctor Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Have a nice 3 pc.12' Sharpes that was traded in ...have been playing with it a bit and really like the early Windcutter on it...if you can find One of the Silk Lines that would be good.. Although the general fishing applications for that set-up on the Island at the moment isn't Ideal...soon the fresh Winter Run Steelhead will be making their appearance, within weeks...however the down side now is that the water levels are just now shooting up! C If you have time could you post some pictures of it and the line. I love looking at old rods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogilvie Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 If you have time could you post some pictures of it and the line. I love looking at old rods. Yeah...will do... have to wait for a few days though...Val has me on domestic duties for the next few dasy...spent a week on the Bulkley-Morice and now have to do STUFFFFF C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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