Bug Spray

[reevesr1]

I get to be the first to "Ask the Pros" on the new forum!

So when I was putting on the bug spray last night, I started wondering. In Texas, I had friends that would always thoroughly wash their hands after putting on bug spray before touching any lures. The theory was they could either smell it, or taste it and reject the lure even faster than usual. I never noticed any difference, so ignored the theory.

 

Anyone do the same with their flies? Does anyone think it matters?

[birchy]

I've heard this as well rickr. Curious to hear what people have to say.

 

I think the best suggestion I've ever heard is to give your hands a good scrub in the water you'll be fishing. If the water can have a scent to the fish, might as well have that scent on your hands.

[fisher26]

It makes sense, but probably depends on the type of fly your using. Personally I always was my hands after using bug spray because it deteriorates line & leader.

[Harps]

It makes sense, but probably depends on the type of fly your using. Personally I always was my hands after using bug spray because it deteriorates line & leader.

 

Yeah, Deet will melt the plastic lines. It will also damage clothing, waders, boots, etc.

Funny we put it on our bodies.

 

Alot of folks across the pond swear by baby oil and Detol 50/50... Iceland, NZ, Au, etc if it works there, why not here.

 

In a New England Journal of Medicine study, oil of eucalyptus at 30% concentration prevented mosquito bites for 120.1 minutes, while Bite Blocker with 2% soybean oil kept bites away for 96.4 minutes. (the eucalyptus oil must have a minimum of 70% cineole content, the active therapeutic ingredient.) Citronella, a common alternative to DEET, performed poorly, warding off bugs for only 20 minutes.

 

An effective natural bug repellent, mix one part garlic juice with 5 parts water in a small spray bottle. Shake well before using. Spray lightly on exposed body parts for an effective repellent lasting up to 5 - 6 hours. Strips of cotton cloth can also be dipped in this mixture and hung in areas, such as patios, as a localized deterrent.

Neem oil is a natural vegetable oil extracted from the Neem tree in India. The leaves, seeds and seed oil of the Neem tree contain sallanin, a compound which has effective mosquito repelling properties. Neem oil is a natural product and is safe to use. Look for new Neem Oil-based commercial products on the market.

 

Campers often report that the very best mosquito repellent is Avon Skin-So-Soft® bath oil mixed half and half with rubbing alcohol.

 

 

Is DEET safe?

The active ingredient in most chemical-based mosquito repellents is DEET (N,N-diethyl-meta-toluamide), developed by the US military in the 1940s. This powerful chemical is absorbed readily into the skin, and should be used with caution.

Common side-effects to DEET-based products include rash, swelling, itching and eye-irritation. often due to over-application. For safer use, consider the following:

~ The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that repellents used on children contain no more than 10% DEET. Parents should assist children in applying DEET-based products.

~ Lotions can be applied more effectively than sprays. Only a thin layer should be used.

~ Be careful to avoid areas near the eyes or mouth.

~ Wash skin exposed to DEET after coming in from mosquito areas.

~ Minimize exposed skin areas by wearing long-sleeved shirts and long pants, if possible.

 

Recent research suggests that DEET products, used sparingly for brief periods, are relatively safe. Other research points to toxic encephalopathy associated with use of DEET insect repellents. Experts warn that DEET shouldn’t be used in combination with sun-screen because DEET shouldn’t be reapplied often.

From Natural pest control

 

Anyways, I've used old Military surplus deet... Used to melt our clothes, I'm deet free now.

 

Cheers,

[fisher26]

Deet is pretty gross stuff... I'm sure it can't be good for you, while I was mowing the lawn the plastic handle on the lawn mower melted all over my hands. I'm sure that some day someone will look back and be shocked that we used such a obviously toxic substance, kind of like how the ancient Romans built there waterways coated in lead.

[Lundvike]

I would think that in terms of the actual scent on the fly that it wouldn't really have much of an impact when fishing the bow specifically because of a few of things: 1 I don't think fish have enough time to smell food as it is floating by, 2 I doubt that the taste would change how fast they spit out a fly. 3 especially when nymphing or streamering your fly is gonna be well cleaned after a couple of drifts.

 

I do however agree with the cleaning of hands after applying bug spray as I have definelty have seen deet disolve plastics and I imagine any long chain hydrocarbon would be affected.

[Brownstone]

I use the old school Muskol 98% or 100% DEET (not avaliable in Canada anymore), It stinks and will melt your line quicker than a flame (not to mention strip the paint off anything) so I make sure I clean my hands throughly after application, If your concerned about the smell transferring to your flies, bring a small bar of bio-soap(envio friendly hand soap) you can pick it up at most camping places...personally I agree with Lundvike, not an issue on the Bow.

[Grizz]

I don't know if it made a difference but I always washed my hands in the water after I so much as touched a bottle of the stuff. Never used it much myself - skeeters don't seem to like me.

 

I'd wash my hands after lunch, rolling a smoke, bug spray, a piss or a crap, anything really. What have you got to lose?

[Lawrence]

one of the most important issues with bug spray on your hands, is your fly line, that stuff will destroy your line pretty quick. I took extra precaution when putting the stuff on trying to just get the back of my hands, but I think that once you get your hands wet the stuff kinda just spreads all over your hands. So now I try not to spray my hands at all, just down to the wrists pretty much.

[reevesr1]

Thanks everyone! I certainly would not have thought of the line.

[Din]

I had no idea about the melting affect of the deet. maybe thats why my brand new line sinks....never was careful about it. Thanks pros.

[lonefisher]

HMMMM....... I just thought about it and I have not worn bug spray all year and have yet to get a mosqui bite....... does this mean I stink? You guys would tell me right?

Did pull a RM wood tick outta my hair one day though man do those suckers ever crunch when you smash em against the steering wheel

[lonefisher]

Also

Has anyone ever tried permethrin products? Sounds like stuff to have. You actually treat your clothing with it...... heard good reviews but am interested if any of you have tried it

[Lawrence]

Also

Has anyone ever tried permethrin products? Sounds like stuff to have. You actually treat your clothing with it...... heard good reviews but am interested if any of you have tried it

 

 

is that the stuff that is in those mosquito repellent shirts and hats?? I was thinking of picking up a shirt but its seems like its pretty thick and to be wearing that on a hot day may be a little uncomfortable.

[lonefisher]

http://www.permethrin-repellent.com/

 

thats the stuff......sounds deadly

[Guest bigbadbrent]

actually seems to be pretty "basic" stuff, and not harmful to humans..

 

Permethrin is a synthetic broad-spectrum insecticide, similar to natural pyrethrin insecticides. Permethrin is ineffective when applied to your skin, yet very durable on clothing and gear. Permethrin, a complex organic compound, when metabolized by the skin (the largest organ of the body) through a process of ester hydrolysis is broken down to amino acids (simple proteins), carbon dioxide and water.

This is the same process that digests hand and body lotions when applied to your skin.

[lonefisher]

Sorry I meant deadly as in effective or as in deadly to bugs in one of the reviews a hunter claims he watches a tick die on his clothing that was treated with permethrin. sorry it was kinda a confusing statement. the fact that it is not harmful to the skin is another plus

[dube]

I'll have to try and find some of this stuff. I've used the military grade deet (bug fug) awesome stuff but really bad for you I think, I use the muskol oil and basically douse my clothes really well with it, then I just do a light mist with the aerosol on forearms and neck. You still get bit but at least they don't swarm you as bad. I'd definately like to try an effective alternative, sadly most of the one's on the market right now kinda suck. I'll be interested to see if it works, thanks for the link.

[dryfly]

"obviously toxic substance" Hummm..... DEET is a repellent not a toxin--bugs just don't like the smell. DEET is am aromatic ester. "Volatile esters often have a smell and are found in perfumes, essential oils, and pheromones. Volatile esters also give many fruits their smells." Deet has an acute mammalian LD50 toxicity of about 2000 (mg/kg) as compared to (say) table salt at about 3000 and nicotine at 50--or about 40 times more toxic. Oral LD50 of pyrethrins is about 200--or ten times more toxic than deet. Deet has been shown to cause reactions in some people and the maximum concentrations in products was reduced to 23 percent a few years ago. BTW, alcohol is a pesticide (common bactericide in labs) and known to cause all manner of health problems including melted livers. Its LD50 is about 7000 (or three times less toxic than DEET) ... but holy cow it consumed with abandon. Point being? Deet is a safe aromatic compound and relatively non toxic. Like all "chemicals" it must be used with caution.

 

Regarding affects on fly lines. I just soaked a short section of old fly line in Deep Woods OFF with 23 percent DEET (the max allowable today) for 60 seconds and it did nothing to the line at all. Will check it later today to see if there is any developing deterioration. Would seem that minor incidental contact would not cause any problems.

[Lawrence]

Dryfly, you'll have to let us now how you're tip turns out. Last year when I got some on my line from careless spraying, overtime the area sprayed started losing its outer coating

[dryfly]

After 3 hours there was no affect on the line. I scraped it with my fingernail and rubbed it through a black cloth. It was fine. So then I soaked a 50 mm section of a 100 mm piece of line in the OFF for 10 minutes. Although I could not scrape any of the line coating off, it did feel a tad softer. That's it. Obviously one should not be overtly spraying this stuff on lines and in eyes and should be using it (all all products) according to recommendations. I think the active ingredient (deet) is a useful product and when used according to recommendations is a safe product. (It's been around for over 50 years now.)

 

Sidenote...this is from letter I wrote some time back....

Chinook Health Region (CHR) recommends several methods to reduce risks from mosquitoes. They recommend sensible, non-chemical practices such as wearing light coloured, long sleeves shirts and pants and staying indoors during peak mosquito activity. CHR and Health Canada continue to recommend the proper use of DEET-based products for protection against WNV. Health Canada also warns of the ineffectiveness of citronella-based chemicals for reducing the risks from WNV and they warn of the risks of citronella chemicals. They state, “These products cannot be used on infants and toddlers under two years of age. Based on animal studies, citronella-based products appear to be potential skin sensitizers. Therefore, allergic reactions may occur in some individuals …. Certain products containing citronella have a limit on the number of applications allowed per day.” Yet ironically, according to the Ontario Ministry of Health, a person would have to apply citronella products 15 times more often than DEET-based products to get the same effect.

 

Health Canada also reports that it “has completed its re-evaluation of available information of citronella-based personal insect repellents applied directly to the skin. As a result of the re-evaluation … is recommending that citronella-based insect repellents that are applied to the skin be phased out. Because citronella-based products repel insects for approximately 30 minutes, repeated applications can lead to even greater exposures…. Natural citronella oil may contain methyleugenol, which has been shown to be carcinogenic in animal studies. In addition, tests in laboratory animals indicate a potential for reproductive and developmental toxicity as well as fetal sensitivity at high dose levels.”

[lonefisher]

I once dropped a clump of purple marabou on a wet spot on some linoleum (for a couple days) and it left a massive purple stain after trying everything I could think of including those mr clean magic erasers the stuff that finally took it off was OFF bug spray (no deet in that product I believe) it also took a layer of the clear coating on the linoleum which must be similar to some fly line coatings so some of that stuff must be pretty hard on fly lines but likely only if you really really got a good amount on it or repeatedly with small amounts.

 

Dryfly maybe try another stretch of fly line but unstead of just letting it sit run it through a cloth and see if that affects the slipperrness of the fly line..... I couldn't really see it melting a line though without some added heat but I bet some products could do some damage to the coating when coupled with friction....... Not really something I worry much about myself but it would be neat to know

[lonefisher]

sorry I started typing before you posted that dryfly sounds like you were a bit ahead of me

[mikefromsundre]

I googled insect repellent and found a lot of common sense sights that quote lab studies on DEET. A lot of the health concerns seem unfounded. Yes it eats plastics, etc. but the number of health problems is extremely small. We are not plastic. Check out this site <http://www.cfpc.ca/cfp/2003/Aug/vol49-aug-critical-2.asp>

[ffconvert]

http://www.permethrin-repellent.com/

 

thats the stuff......sounds deadly

I googled the chemical, and got this link:

http://www.safe2use.com/poisons-pesticides...-report/cox.htm

Based on my namby-pampy attitude about neurotoxins, I will give this a miss.