Tungsten Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 earlyer this spring was out on a lake , and realised i put my 7wt line on my 5wt rod .boy does it cast nice ,em i going to break my rod if itry to do a 80' double haul ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwell Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 maybe.. your rod is severly overlines and overloading causing it too slingshot you line out there.. makes it easy too throw a half assed bomb but it will in time bust almost forsure..... overlining a fast action rod one isnt usually to bad for them but 2 is pushing your luck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beedhead Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 I'm no pro but...It can be a good thing to overline a rod when needed to cast that little bit farther...i.e...Stillwaters and bigger faster rivers where presentation is not a big deal and ya wanna get that streamer out there......And ya need that bit more distance...As far as breakin your rod, I doubt it...But ya never know... Cheers...Jeff.. *edit...Like Maxwell says...2 up might be pushin it...I have never tried 2 up...Only one up...Max would know best... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigbadbrent Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 you very well could blow up your rod by putting too much stress on it, aka double hauling with 80 feet and its over lined by two..they give you a line rating for a reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted June 12, 2008 Author Share Posted June 12, 2008 it sure is nice to cast , its clear int. sink maybe i'll stay away from the 80' thing and put it back on my 7 .thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonAndersen Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 leadhead, Lets try a tad of math here. A 5 weight line for 30' of length weighs 140 grains or 4.67 grs/ft A 6 weight line for 30' of length weighs 160 grains or 5.33 grs./ft A 7 weight line for 30' of length weighs 185 grains or 6.167 grs/ft. A 6 wt. is 20 grains heavier than a 5 weight or about 4.28' less for the same bend in the rod. A 7 wt is 45 grains heavier than a 5 weight or about 7.3' less for the same bend in the rod. So a heavier line just casts a tad shorter, PROVIDING THE ROD MANUFACUTER LISTED THE LINE WEIGHT CORRECTLY - MOST DO NOT. THEY TEND TO UNDER RATE THE ROD TO MAKE DAMN SURE THAT IT WILL CAST 50' W/O EFFORT. The line weight selected by the manufacturer is completely subjective. It's what he says it is. Doesn't mean that you should agree with him. He unlike you, is required to have rods all through the line weight range. If he doesnt have one, I'd suspect, based on published interviews of the rod designers, they'd paste anything on a rod to get a sale. Use the line weight the feels good to you. You cannot over-line any rod and blow it up unless the the rod was faulty to start with or you crunched it somehow. Most anglers over-line their plastic rods. catch ya' Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtforward Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Hi Don I get 3.73' on the 6 wt is my math wrong? Thks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonAndersen Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 wtforward, Aren't all weight forwards a little light or short? catch ya' Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogilvie Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 leadhead, Lets try a tad of math here. A 5 weight line for 30' of length weighs 140 grains or 4.67 grs/ft A 6 weight line for 30' of length weighs 160 grains or 5.33 grs./ft A 7 weight line for 30' of length weighs 185 grains or 6.167 grs/ft. A 6 wt. is 20 grains heavier than a 5 weight or about 4.28' less for the same bend in the rod. A 7 wt is 45 grains heavier than a 5 weight or about 7.3' less for the same bend in the rod. So a heavier line just casts a tad shorter, PROVIDING THE ROD MANUFACUTER LISTED THE LINE WEIGHT CORRECTLY - MOST DO NOT. THEY TEND TO UNDER RATE THE ROD TO MAKE DAMN SURE THAT IT WILL CAST 50' W/O EFFORT. The line weight selected by the manufacturer is completely subjective. It's what he says it is. Doesn't mean that you should agree with him. He unlike you, is required to have rods all through the line weight range. If he doesnt have one, I'd suspect, based on published interviews of the rod designers, they'd paste anything on a rod to get a sale. Use the line weight the feels good to you. You cannot over-line any rod and blow it up unless the the rod was faulty to start with or you crunched it somehow. Most anglers over-line their plastic rods.catch ya' Don Don, Don't be so silly! Graphite is a long way from plastic! To a quality "boo builder it is a common criticism but let's be fair...plastic insulates against an electric current while Graphite does the contrary! Overlining any rod is certainly possible and breaking them is often the result...This fellow that wants to double haul 80' is some kind of caster...but to answer his question about the intermediate line, there would be less friction during the pick-up on a planned cast and likely cause the rod to load fairly efficiently. During the manufacture of high quality fly rods there are many stress tests and design characteristics that are tightly adhered to...so , a 2 wt. is typically as a 2 wt. should be. Alexander Grant knew of this much better than most of we mortals and discovered many interesting points that we now use in modern rod building...especially the wonderful "cane rods"! IMO C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonAndersen Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Islandguy, As you are a shill for a major manufacturer, this is about the response I figured I'd get from you. OK, lets try this. A rod is rated for 30' of line. So how over loaded is it for a 50>80' cast - about 2>4 line weights. You'd best do some reading. Article after article by noted writers in a lot of major US mag. have said much the same thing. Plastic rods are under rated for line size. Sorry if the word plastic offends you - lets just call them Tupperware Rods. And this has nothing to do with any discussion of high>low>med>composite>bamboo rods. It has to do with the ability of the rod manufacturer to suggest the line weight suitable for the rod. If you search the archives on this site, posters after poster has suggested the same thing - overline I own a lot of glass & graphite fly rods. Must be a 12>15 around here somewhere. They, like bamboo, have their place in the fishing world. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMasson Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Islandguy, As you are a shill for a major manufacturer, this is about the response I figured I'd get from you. OK, lets try this. A rod is rated for 30' of line. So how over loaded is it for a 50>80' cast - about 2>4 line weights. You'd best do some reading. Article after article by noted writers in a lot of major US mag. have said much the same thing. Plastic rods are under rated for line size. Sorry if the word plastic offends you - lets just call them Tupperware Rods. And this has nothing to do with any discussion of high>low>med>composite>bamboo rods. It has to do with the ability of the rod manufacturer to suggest the line weight suitable for the rod. If you search the archives on this site, posters after poster has suggested the same thing - overline I own a lot of glass & graphite fly rods. Must be a 12>15 around here somewhere. They, like bamboo, have their place in the fishing world. Don Not entirely true. The running line on a weight forward line weighs less than the head does, so casting at 50-80' wouldn't give you 2-4 times the suggested line weight. I don't really want to do the math right now, maybe 80 feet would. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pisces Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 For what its worth my daughter got me a 5# Martin two piece for Christmas one year . I picked up a repackaged line at C.Tire the box was marked 5# when I got it home I was surprised to find a Cortland 8# weight forward . Double hauled that mother no problem with the 5# rod . The soft action rod may have something to do with it too . /Clyde. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogilvie Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 I see we are Eye to Eye on this topic Don...and Pisces has a very good point here...however, without getting too technical(which I am not) the energy transfer potential during initial or cast inniation really dictates the rod sizing! There is a commonly accepted ratio for doing this and followed by basically everyone(Manufacturers). The loaded or stressed action of these"plastic Rods" as Don Calls them, and in capable hands will determine it's rateing. Carrying 80' of line in the air really isn't that difficult,especially when the caster knows what needs to be done to do so, and with knowing the tool in hand; thus, rateing! Many years ago I used to use converted 13' noodle rods to cast to Salmon off the beaches of Vancouver Island,most notably evident was this type of rods inability to have an identifiable "powerup" spot. The rod lacked the ability to conquer the winds when needed.,but,was fun to cast and never broke. (These rods were early generation graphites scrimmed with glass)...Lighter than wood or Fibreglas,much more sensative and very easy on the body. But lacked a backbone...the newer High quality graphite rods have much more back-bone and better degrees of action... not bad for an antenna! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 I have a Bow River meat stick (DanCraft FT- very fast taper) 5 wt that throws a 6 GPX (GPX are a half weight heavier to trick people into thinking they cast better than normal lines- so it is really a 6.5 wt) with ease. I don't know of an angler that would really throw a 5 wt with this rod. I recently busted my 8 wt, and I tried my reel on the rod mentioned above. It's a touch overloaded with a moderate cast, but it handles it fine. If the rod breaks because you over-lined it by 2 weights, it is a shitty rod. Get something new. Sounds to me like you should look a more medium actioned rod for your next purchase. You might like the feel better. You could even check out glass or bamboo, if you find you like it slower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speyghillie Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 Hi Guys, I don't want to get into a big debate over lining a rod with a heavier line , i'd rather go fishing, surely it depends on a number of factors, stiffness of rod, where and who makes the line for two things, (there is a difference between rating in the UK and US.) One other thing is true, some companies are claiming short shooting heads are a 7wt when they more like a 9 wt ( airflow 40 plus) the idea behind this is so the caster will think, holy thats some line, when in fact they are really just overloading the rod, which in turn makes fishing these lines harder work. Some lines have been tested for the length and weight of the line in the UK, and during the test it was nothing like it says on the fly line box. If you get a chance to fish with some buddies its a chance to try out different lines on different rods, Like most have said one weight either way in normal at times, and two if it feels right and your rod in loading in the correct positions. trying to force the rod to work with a line that is two light can often be worse . I know world champions that never weigh a line, they know when something feels right, and see the bend they put in a rod. Don i am a great fan of Bamboo ... or should i call in split cane.. Gordon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogilvie Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Hi Guys, I don't want to get into a big debate over lining a rod with a heavier line , i'd rather go fishing, surely it depends on a number of factors, stiffness of rod, where and who makes the line for two things, (there is a difference between rating in the UK and US.) One other thing is true, some companies are claiming short shooting heads are a 7wt when they more like a 9 wt ( airflow 40 plus) the idea behind this is so the caster will think, holy thats some line, when in fact they are really just overloading the rod, which in turn makes fishing these lines harder work. Some lines have been tested for the length and weight of the line in the UK, and during the test it was nothing like it says on the fly line box. If you get a chance to fish with some buddies its a chance to try out different lines on different rods, Like most have said one weight either way in normal at times, and two if it feels right and your rod in loading in the correct positions. trying to force the rod to work with a line that is two light can often be worse . I know world champions that never weigh a line, they know when something feels right, and see the bend they put in a rod. Don i am a great fan of Bamboo ... or should i call in split cane.. Gordon. Split Cane ...what do ya think???!!! I too am a fan of Cane...however,there is little wonder there is so much confusion about lines when Rio produces an outbound line in an 8 wt. that has a grain weight of about 330 grains... ANyway, the debate rages I am sure Tight Lines to you all...and especially you Calgarians with all the brown water this past few weeks C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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