Weight Forward...v.s...double Taper...

[Guest bigbadbrent]

Thanks Jim,

kinda funny how very few people (me included) really know the dynamics of the different types of line

[Smitty]

Jim and Don:

 

That's exactly what I was going to ask: If the front 30' of the DT and the WF lines are exactly the same, why would we say that DT has an advantage in presentation?

 

Let me get this straight:

1) There's no difference in the first 30', which comprises over 75% of my casting,

2) For longer distances, the WF is easier to cast,

3) Takes up less room on the reel.

 

Why would anyone use a DT? If you're only using 30' would there really be a significant difference in roll casting ability?

 

And we haven't even touched A) the caster's casting ability - doesn't that play a far larger role in delicate presentation and underlining or overlining a rod's recommended rating.

 

Thoughts? Anyone?

 

Smitty

[rusty]

The best advantage to a DT is that it can be flipped around and reused. I used to find this tough because the memory from the small arbor was so bad, but now with LA reels commonplace I think it's more relevant.

[bloom]

I like the DT...especially on 4wt and lighter. For my 2 and 3 wts, I cut the DT in half, add more backing, and save the rest of the line for later.

[beedhead]

I like the DT...especially on 4wt and lighter. For my 2 and 3 wts, I cut the DT in half, add more backing, and save the rest of the line for later.

 

Not a bad idea....You would get into your backing more often....

 

Great info...Thanx guys...I think allot of us are looking at DT's and WF in a new prespective...I know I am...

 

Cheers...Jeff...

[rhuseby]

One point that I think is being missed a bit here is that the first 30 feet aren't identical between WF and DT. They do weigh the same, but the actual tapers are different in most cases. There are some significant differences in casting characteristics, even in that first 30 feet. I just bought a WF for my 7 wt because I couldn't find a DT on short notice, ie after 6 pm. I have fished DT for my floaters for the most part, and I was turning the air blue trying to reprogram my casting stroke and mend. This was with a double nymph and indicator rig. Personally, due to the way I cast, DT is for me. As soon as I get to another payday, there will probably be a slightly used SA GRX line on the auction block.

[ogilvie]

Quite often with the DT lines you will find the front taper slightly longer,primarily for presentation.. Since the weight of a line is determined by the first 30' of the line excludeing the front taper,it is natural to consider that DT lines somewhat different. Effective because of Roll casts and mendability (I wonder why Spey Lines have such long bellies)??Spey lines are weighted similarly.

An example of this are the Snowbee DT Lines with a 13' front taper and their WF lines with an 8.5' front taper/back taper11'. The delicate presentation line(WF) has a 16' front taper a16' belly and a 43' rear taper(very long),thus delicate presentation that really works even when you screw up a cast! I can't myself imagine casting a size 24 mosquito but if that's what you have then you need to have that option. For the caster that wants to have a WF line that doubles as a distance line and a great rool casting line then the Extreme distance line is the cats behind for this option. A 60' head yet WF ...an 8' front taper,37' belly and a 15'rear taper. A very popular line for big boombers to multi fly set-ups.

Nothing roll casts quite like a nice long bellied line.

C

[ÜberFly]

In reading (and re-reading) this thread, I would like to remind all of us (though this may have already been pointed out, subtlety...), one (ultimately) tries to match a particular rod to their style of cast, would it be fair to say that we should match the type of line to each of our casting style(s), also?!

 

So casting ain't just an art, eh... Hmmm ;-)

 

P

[ogilvie]

In reading (and re-reading) this thread, I would like to remind all of us (though this may have already been pointed out, subtlety...), one (ultimately) tries to match a particular rod to their style of cast, would it be fair to say that we should match the type of line to each of our casting style(s), also?!

 

So casting ain't just an art, eh... Hmmm ;-)

 

P

You are generally right...although the use of DT lines is making a big comeback especially in Europe where Czech Nymphing is taking on a new look with Double Taper lines with nymphing tips part of them. I was casting/instructing with a fellow yesterday that has basically only fished with 'boo rods all his life. He found it very difficult last Summer to cast to riseing Salmon off the beach with his rod/line set-ups. He came into the shop to determine , A/ what exactly is a fast action rod! B/ what is a primary use of WF lines and why the accepted uses so much these days. SImply put, to answer his questions and understanding ,I stuck a very fast rod lined up with a sweet matched WF Floating line..Discussed the need to shorten the stroke,speed of stroke and gentle acceleration...you know the result...he was standing there with his mouth open and wasn't sure what just happened....he has never cast 70' of line on One simple Stroke! The need for distance is very apparent off the beaches in search of Salmon..different rods,different needs and different results. What the result was ...he know realizes that as you say,different rods for different styles and different lines. Often we hear, " What is the best rod out there" actually that is a fairly foolish question! Some of us have found several rod/reel/line matches that answer the call for our needs. And there is always more than One rod and Line!

The nicest WF floating line I have ever fished and used is the Snowbee WF Two Colour Line...There are some of these in the hands of fly fishers on the Bow that will find out for themselves once the weather get warmer. And there is a point we often overlook and that is line stick and floatation....line slickness allows the line to "Lift Off' much more smoothly,and evenly...that has much to do with performance during the cast and fishability. Polyurethane coatings are IMO the better of the coatings...less chemical involvement to maintain lines,but also more expensive.

C

[DonAndersen]

Jim and Don:

 

That's exactly what I was going to ask: If the front 30' of the DT and the WF lines are exactly the same, why would we say that DT has an advantage in presentation?

 

Let me get this straight:

1) There's no difference in the first 30', which comprises over 75% of my casting,

2) For longer distances, the WF is easier to cast,

3) Takes up less room on the reel.

 

Why would anyone use a DT? If you're only using 30' would there really be a significant difference in roll casting ability?

 

And we haven't even touched A) the caster's casting ability - doesn't that play a far larger role in delicate presentation and underlining or overlining a rod's recommended rating.

 

Thoughts? Anyone?

 

Smitty

 

 

 

Smitty,

 

I think that the diagrams and flyslinger's reply about says it all. WF & DT's might weight the same, but they may cast a whole of differently. WF's may cast further providing that the rods are properly constructed to load the line with 30' of line through the guides. Most graphite rods need more line out of the tip top to load correctly. If that is the case, the hinge effect of the running line>tip section makes casting tougher. Roll casting with either within the 30' length depends on the taper. Roll casting over 30' with a WF is tougher if the line drops to the running line. Lines by Rio and others do not and roll casting is somewhat easier. You are right, you can get a WF on a reel where a DT won't fit. You'll have to acquire a larger reel.

If you think that the line stuff is weird, try designing a rod taper to fit a line where the lines tapers are really weird. I use Cortland DT 444's 'cause the tapers are simple. Then you have a rod purchaser put on a Wulff Tri taper or a front loaded nymph taper on it and he's unhappy 'cause it won't load or he has to increase a line weight or on and on.

It's a crap shoot.

 

catch ya'

 

 

Don

[headscan]

If you think that the line stuff is weird, try designing a rod taper to fit a line where the lines tapers are really weird. I use Cortland DT 444's 'cause the tapers are simple. Then you have a rod purchaser put on a Wulff Tri taper or a front loaded nymph taper on it and he's unhappy 'cause it won't load or he has to increase a line weight or on and on.

It's a crap shoot.

 

catch ya'

Don

 

I think you just hit on a big problem when someone goes out to buy a new outfit. You can test the rod at the store, but unless you have the line picked out already and spooled you can only test the rod with the try line the store has spooled. So if you test the rod with the store's line and buy it because you like the way it casts, but buy a line with a different taper than the one you tested it may not cast the same. I'm not currently aware of any store that has a variety of test lines spooled.

 

Sorry for the hijack.

[Badger]

...

[DonAndersen]

Badger,

 

I have to chose #2 - #1 insults their ability. Kinda like sex - nobody likes to know they are a lousy performer.

Of course #2 drags more business in the door. Long as the door doesn't open during fishing season. I'm too busy fishing to work on rods.

 

catch ya'

 

 

Don