The Ethical Question

[skeezRus]

Heres the question that i'm sure most of you were expecting, as its raging on between friends, fly shop discussions and on the river. The poll is multiple choice

 

Do you think it's ethical to go fish for the rainbows, that are essentially the fish that lead to the existance of such a great river..

 

Lots of stands on this ones, here are the most common i have heard

 

It's not ethical, they're the creators of the future generations

It's Ethical, they're just stacked, not spawning yet

Bad Ettiquite galore!

Shooting fish in a barrel, wheres the challenge?

Who cares, they're just fish

 

 

Personally, i think that 1 km upstream and downstream needs to be shut from march 15 - may 15. Gives a big open window for the ice to break on the highwood, lets the pre-spawners get big and healthy for the long trip up, and it's not like there aren't a ton of places well away from the highwood that are fishing incredibly well at the same time of year....i also don't like it that it seems to encourage people to barge in on runs later in the year (they did it at the confluence, so it must be standard procedure away from the confluence..).. I know a lot of guys will say 'well, they're just staging' but i figure, when there are days of 30+ anglers there..the fish are not going to be in prime shape going up the highwood..

 

 

Lets keep it to a peaceful argument, i just like to know where people stand..can always argue without being assholes, right?

[Taco]

Oh ****! here we go, the Annual Springtime Bow River Squabble.

[skeezRus]

Oh **** here we go!

 

was inevitable, wasn't it?

[maxwell]

lmao taco u beet me too it... might aswell bring up teh bulltrout fishin on teh elk tribs too.... or how abotu fishing for the browns in teh city in the fall...... yea its fine in my opinion.... they will eat and then go spawn....... jsut like the bulls and the browns.... what abotu steelhead fishing..... or atlantic salmon fishing..... ethical or not? give me a freakin break

[maxwell]

forgot too mention teh spring pike fisherman too..... hmmmm what else am i forgetting.......

 

was it halfdozen or a dozen pages of ... f u..... no f u too im a purist.... nahh im a purist f u. nah F U......... on teh old ffa board when this was brought up... taco do u remeber?

[Guest bigbadbrent]

can always argue without being assholes, right?

 

 

 

apparently not...

 

i don't fish the confluence this time of the year for the crowds, and the fish... lots of fish to play with, i'll leave those horny ones alone

[headscan]

what abotu steelhead fishing..... or atlantic salmon fishing..... ethical or not? give me a freakin break

 

Exactly.

[PlayDoh]

I'm still learning the ABC's of FF'ing, and I had no idea about there being an issue about fishing near spawning or pre-spawning trout. Yet I did ask myself the same question when I learned all the browns moved up the city, and stack up on the south end. As for the arguments on here, I'm not surprised. Yet after all the fish that were caught (see the million beauty pics here at FFC) during their spawn or pre spawn, theres still a butt load of them in the river.

 

I know the people who's job it is to understand and regulate the river know what their doing, and I'd think 99% of FF'ers could see the potential impact if your fishing & your #30 at the same run during spawn. That is unless you just bought a fly rod in Sep, like me and pose no threat to the fish population what-so-ever. lol

 

I think I recall being told that trout have a 4% mortality with de-barbed flies, which if thats correct, is pretty nominal. Personally I believe most of the fish I've seen caught near me, were WAY over-played. I mean I grew up fishing giant jack-fish, so I know how to 'pull'em in, so its hard for me to understand why it takes someone 5 mins to land a 5lbs trout.

 

I have a side 'ethical question', which I plan on learning the definite answer to before I did it. But, this may sound odd, but I thought about giving, say a minnow to a fish I land. (If I ever get to see a Bow river trout again, sneaky bastards). What made me think of it is seeing people pump the stomaches of trout, & I wondered if they put the food back in the trout. I mean it probably took the fish some time to eat all that, then has to fight your line, then maybe even suffocated while you fumble for the camera. Then after all that, you steal his lunch.

 

I know its a slippery slope, where you wouldn't advocated it to anyone who didn't fully understand the importance of doing it correctly. As in, not over-feeding or using spoiled feed, ect, ect. And again, I'm not feeding fish, advise anyone else to, or plan on doing it anytime soon, if ever. Just a curiosity.

 

I'm sure most veterans will only roll their eyes at poll question, simply because its been over and done with I'm sure. However I think its a good question for those who are learning like me. I'd love to catch the nicest, biggest fish like anyone, but I'm truly more interested in having a low impact of the entire environment while I practice fly casting, er, um, I mean Fish.

[toolman]

Fishing for the migrating/staging Rainbows, has no serious impact on the spawing numbers. This issue was examined and studied by SRD, in 2000 I believe. These trout are in the prime of their lives. Beyond that, I feel it's personal choice. I don't fish down there at this time of year, but I don't care if anyone else does. I like to avoid the crowds and prefer hunting for Browns.

[Tako]

On the redds is a no no. Anything else is fair game. I draw my own line at bull trout from mid August to the end of September. I won't deliberately target them during that time. It's too easy, and I have too much respect for those big ol warriors.

[rusty]

My thoughts are pretty simple: if you don't like fishing for them, don't. But anyone who thinks that the only pre-spawn fish in the Bow are at the HW mouth needs to give their head a shake.

[Weedy1]

.... hmmmm what else am i forgetting.......

 

Damn Newfies taking all my Cod.

[Hawgstoppah]

Fish were the fish are. Prove there being hurt, prove the SRD study is wrong please. It was less than 1% mort folks... much less.

 

If you wanna close the Highwood you better do it from POLICE to MACKINNONS. There staged all along there. While your at it please close the crowsnest in it's entirety this time of year. Pffssshhh

 

If anything, the real issue is people fishing the Highwood when the spanwed out rainbows return hungry, tired, and beat up in may/early june. That's when I don't go down there as that crosses my personal line. Besides, it's a good time to go hunt rising browns nearer the city.

[Weedy1]

From:

 

http://www.srd.gov.ab.ca/fieldoffices/prai...report_2000.pdf

 

 

c. A spring closure at the mouth of the Highwood River, where rainbow trout are known to

congregate (i.e., stage) prior to their spawning migration up the Highwood River, and where

they are subjected in some years to concentrated angling pressure, was deemed by the

Committee to be unnecessary. Angling pressure at this time of the season and at this location

is not believed to pose a risk to the sustainability of the Bow River's rainbow trout population.

• The few studies done on angling impacts to spawning success of trout suggest little or no

significant impact.

• High angling pressure does not occur every year (dependent on runoff and water level).

• Immediate catch and release mortality is relatively low at this time of year due to very low

water temperatures.

• The Committee felt, however, that mortality caused by catch and release angling and impacts

to spawning success should be studied for Bow River rainbow trout at this location

specifically. Should biological studies show a significant impact of angling on spawning

success, a spring closure at this location would be reconsidered.

 

Here's the Rhoades thesis for those that haven't seen it posted a million times.

 

http://www.srd.gov.ab.ca/fieldoffices/prai...ters_Thesis.pdf

[pkk]

Exactly.

Summer run steelhead enter freshwater as early as july and as late a november. They winter over and dont spawn until spring. Almost all of the summer run rivers are closed to fishing at the end of december. that means that these fish are not bothered at all for several months prior to spawning and after spawn so that they can make it back to the ocean and do it all again. the problem lies when a river has both winter and summer runs. the river will be open because of the fresh winter /spring run fish but the summer run fish are still in there also ( but a little worse for wear). unfortunatly some people will target these "older" fish. Rivers like the gold out on the island are now closed for a period in the spring to help solve this problem. Not sure about atlantics.

 

With regards to fishing at the confluence when they are all stacked up isn't for me. I like a little bit more of a challenge. how many fish does one need to catch and how fun is it when you can catch one on every cast. there are fish all over the river. caught some real beauties ( rainbows) above carsland yesterday. Typically it is less experienced fisherman that will hang out at the confluence.

[Weedy1]

It was less than 1% mort folks... much less.

 

"0.18 % of the mature population"

[Taco]

F U......... on teh old ffa board when this was brought up... taco do u remeber?

 

*hit yes.............maybe it'll be over by the time I get back from Sas-katch-uwan in two weeks :rolleyes:

[troutlover]

If people think guys are catching fish every cast at the confluence then they'er on crack! Yes there is the occasional 30 plus day for the experienced but a 15 day is more common and half the unexperienced guys who go are lucky if they catch two - three. When i talked to the author of the srd report done on this issue he said the catch rates were suprisingly low except for a few who knew what they were doing. soooo.....that means all bow river ninjas should be banned from th highwood. These numbers are a drop in the bucket considering ther is probably 100,000 fish going to make the trip this year.

[KingSalmon]

might aswell bring up teh bulltrout fishin on teh elk tribs too.... or how abotu fishing for the browns in teh city in the fall...... yea its fine in my opinion.... they will eat and then go spawn....... jsut like the bulls and the browns.... what abotu steelhead fishing..... or atlantic salmon fishing..... ethical or not? give me a freakin break

 

Amen

[Guest bigbadbrent]

i just think of it this way...why do people have the sudden urge to go fish the highwood this time of the year..its never this busy once summer is in the full roll..

 

people are too hard up on catching lots of fish, no matter what they have to do for them.

[Guest bigbadbrent]

With regards to fishing at the confluence when they are all stacked up isn't for me. I like a little bit more of a challenge. how many fish does one need to catch and how fun is it when you can catch one on every cast. there are fish all over the river. caught some real beauties ( rainbows) above carsland yesterday. Typically it is less experienced fisherman that will hang out at the confluence.

 

 

exactly my thoughts

[Highlander]

I voted yes, but would have been happier if there had been a "yes, but..." option.

 

When the fish are on their spawning run, no problems there. But some areas may have obstructions where fish stack up waiting to pass or which completely block the river to fish passage (ie dams), and these areas should be closed at this time.

 

Targetting fish when they are on their redds is a definite no no in my books. Might also want to leave a buffer zone below known spawning areas.

 

I also think that rivers/lakes which are open at this time should be closed to retention for spawning species.

[Tako]

FYI, you guys are lucky. 90% of the creeks here are closed to fishing until July 1

[Hawgstoppah]

I just don't get it with people who bring up this question, and bring it up specifically about the highwood mouth. I think y'all have some deeper issues you need to deal with instead of slogging people that DO fish the mouth area..

 

Either you fish, or you don't. If you fish, your hurting fish... wether your catching them staging now, or when they come back, or when it's 30C and the river is 70F and there very stressed, or when theyre "stacked" against a hopper bank in August, or moving into the city in the fall (Browns) or returning from spawn in the city in Nov/Dec... or your fishing coho's at the mouth of a trib or steelhead on a migration (there migrating for one purpose, spring summer or winter, c'mon...), or bulls in the wiggy, or rainbows in the open section of the crow that are actually spawning there, redds and all, and not staged, etc etc, and on and on and on. So basically, if you fish, period, you should consider yourself "unethical" is what your trying to say guys? Puuuuhhhleeeease....

 

So, either you fish, or you don't. Draw your own lines after that. Period.

[PlayDoh]

It sounds like the term 'Ethical' could be replaced with 'Moral", or better yet 'personal moral beliefs'. I share the view of most of you that I'd like to give the fish as much of a fair chance as possible. Yet there are lots of people who have little concern, or an abundance of ignorance, or something in-between.

 

We all like to catch fish, yet the avid FF'er who engages in open discussion via FCC and loves the sport and the fish passionately obviously will have high morals and a complete understanding of the implications of fishing at a location at a certain time. Yet I wouldn't expect everyone who fishes the Bow to obey these same morals.

 

As was stated, those who fish the confluence or more likely to be novices and either don't care or don't know, (to a degree), the implications. Being a novice myself, fishing the confluence maybe an opportunity to 'find what works', and give a brief opportunity to experience a day of multiple catches. To the expert, its fishing in a barrel, but to those with limited experience its far from it. I'm sure.

 

I figured I'd balance the debate, and make the defence of those who do fish it, regardless of what I believe personally. I still don't feel I have enough knowledge on the matter to debate or challenge the facts and findings of research, yet I'm glad to be in the company of those do.