Question For The Rv Types

[pigl]

Just wondering if any of the people on here that do some RVing have any thoughts on the best truck for towing.

5th wheels.

 

We currently have a 1/2 ton Suburban that we tow a 24' travel trailer with. We are thinking about getting a larger RV (probably something in the order of a 28-34 foot 5th wheel), perhaps in the winter of 2009 or spring 2010. The problem is, I am going to need to buy a new truck this spring, about a year before I will be getting the new RV, so I need to get something that will preserve my options as much as possible for next year when we look at a new RV, so here are my questions. Any thoughts or experiences would be greatly appreciated.

 

1. I know I am going to have to move up to at least a 3/4 ton truck. However, should I be looking at a 3/4 ton or a 1 ton? Is there generally a size or weight of 5th wheel that will require you to move from a 3/4 ton to a 1/2 ton? Has anyone had the experience of having a 3/4 that was inadequate?

 

2. The diesel vs. gas debate. I know that diesels have more power at lower rpm and hence have more power at the rpms that you will generally towing vehicles. Diesels costs about $10,000 more. Is it worth it? Is it safer? Has anyone towed with both such they can offer a comparison?

 

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks.

[Brownstone]

I'd go witth wilh a diesel for sure, they hold their resale value and are way more economic for towing as for 3/4 or 1 ton, a 3/4 diesel is more than enough to handle a 30 foot trailer, the main (and sometimes only) difference between a 3/4 and half is a little heavier suspension. my 0.02

[streamguy]

go with a 1 ton and for the best bang for your buck go with the chev duramax real good on fuel and tow real good

[Taco]

I drag about 7500 kgs of trailer and equipment about 60-70,000 km/yr. IMO macho aside, you need to run a diesel over 45,000 km/yr for 10 yrs to justify the extra costs associated with runnin' a diesel.

[pigl]

I drag about 7500 kgs of trailer and equipment about 60-70,000 km/yr. IMO macho aside, you need to run a diesel over 45,000 km/yr for 10 yrs to justify the extra costs associated with runnin' a diesel.

 

Thanks T. Do you think a diesel offers better or safer towing capability? I understand that diesels have more horsepower at lower rpms and are therefore better for towing. Any thoughts?

[walker1]

This is a good informative thread. I only tow a 10 foot Rockwood tent trailer so the f150 is suffice. I will keep an eye on this as it may give some insight for me in the future.

[ggp]

I started RVing with gas engines the icon says it all...I now have a 3/4ton diesel (cummins) which I bought new in 93 and haul a 10ft camper with, it is still going strong...Too make a long story short, the diesel out pulls out hauls out performs in every way including fuel consumption...Last year my wife and I bought a new 5th wheel, 32ft. and rather than put a hitch in my truck for a one way trip to it's new home we rented a truck (one ton GMC duramax diesel with an Allison transmission and the trailer towing package) What an impressive beast it was...set the cruise at 110 kmph going over the Coquihalla and it never slowed down over any of the hills... touched the brake pedal on the down hill sections and the engine brake took over...Needless to say if and when I purchase a new truck it will be a diesel...Gearing in the rear end is critical when pulling anything, whether it be a gas or diesel engine...My brother in law has a newer Cummins and he has nothing but praise for it...he also pulls a 31 ft 5th wheel...If you are buying larger than 33ft I think a one ton would be a better bet, but if you stay 33 or below then 3/4 is fine...really depends on weight of trailer/fifth wheel.

[birchy]

Coming from someone who has zero experienced pulling trailers... but who is somewhat mechanical and listens to what others say. Diesel is the way to go for pulling stuff because of their crazy amount of torque. AND the new diesel's can be "chipped" to get you even more horsepower/fuel economy.. all you have to do is flip a switch apparently..

[KingSalmon]

I have a 3/4 ton Dodge Cummins diesel, and haul a camper with it. It doesn't even feel like I'm hauling anything at all...that's how powerful it is. I also don't lose much in terms of fuel economy when hauling neither. My dad has had many gas trucks, and now only buys diesels for hauling his trailers. Way more powerful, and way more economical.

[jonny5]

My gas chev gets almost the same gas milage with the camper on as with it off... ALMOST. However, I don't think it matters too much what you choose. Gas or diesel each have benefits. Diesel runs at lower RPM most of the time, and so they tend to last longer. Diesel may produce more HP at lower RPM, but gas can rev higher and produce more total HP. Parts are alot more expensive for diesel engines (fuel pump for example) but SOME are pretty long lasting engines. Most gas engines don't last as long.

 

If I had to choose, I would go with a diesel as they tend to last longer, and slightly better fuel economy. Paired with a standard transmission and 3.73 gearing for a nice cruising speed.

 

.02

[Nick0Danger]

Would not buy a diesel for just pulling a travel trailer. Use a half ton sierra to pull a 28 foot fifth wheel no problem just down shift (new truck have the tow button in them that make the computer down shift faster for you). And we do pull thought the mountains. Now if you use your diesel for work or other items well then perhaps it is justified. There is no point dropping the extra money, if you will never make it up in fuel savings right.

[hopdrop]

3/4 vs 1 ton?

Most of the difference IS in suspension, you can get the same engine in either truck but that suspension difference could be a big deal as it allows you a bigger payload. DOT (Department of Transportation) is starting to crack down on overloaded vehicles. So far, it's mostly been oilfield service trucks (usually mechanic trucks from what I hear) but the word is that personal vehicles are going to be next. Something to consider, but from my experience, it's tough to get a strait answer from the DOT.

 

Gas vs Diesel?

Pretty tough to argue the power of a diesel, it's nice to have when you need it. That being said, in my opinion a gas engine has more driveability. You don't need to allow it the same warm-up/cooldown period, noise, smell, ect. If the truck is going to be used around town it's something to think about. As far as cost goes, not sure. I would think that Taco has it pretty close. Diesel isn't as cheap relative to gas as it used to be and some of the milage numbers I've been hearing aren't that impressive. 7-10K for the diesel option and they ain't cheap to fix, but the resale value is there. Tough call, I'd think long and hard about what you're really going to use the truck for.

[Castuserraticus]

It's not just about the pulling power. Brakes are critical. We used to have a lightweight 22' fifth wheel - blew the motor in a half ton. The 3/4 ton had no problem with it. The braking was borderline with the 1/2 ton and no problem with the 3/4.

[Nick0Danger]

Trailers have there own breaks, you can set it so the trailer does more stopping than the truck, not recommend you should have about equal breaking power. remember a fifth wheel tounge weight is alot less than a trailer, and a tandem trailer again has less tounge weight than a single axel. tow weight and tounge weight are different.

 

A couple of links for you

http://www.curtmfg.com/index.cfm?event=pag...entpieceid=1347

http://www.sherline.com/lmbook.htm

[pigl]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I also emailed the dealer guy I purchased my last truck from with these questions and for those that are interested, he provided a response (he's a GM dealer, and his advice relates to GM and the Duramax only - so take it for what its worth). His thoughts were as follows:

 

1. On the gas vs. diesel question - he thinks I would not be pleased with the towing capability of a gas truck. His assumption was that I would be pulling a 32' fifth with 12,500 lbs or so dry weight. He says: "The gas engine has lots of power on demand - wide open throttle - but won't sustain a continuous load such as the significant wind resistance that a big fifth wheel produces. With the gas engine it will hunt between 5th and 6th gear and get very frustrating to drive in windy or hilly terrain." So, he clearly recommends a diesel.

 

2. On the 3/4 ton vs. 1 ton question - he favours the 3/4 ton as indicated by the following: "The only reason to go 1 ton is if your tongue (pin) weight is going to exceed 2,500lbs. You do not need a one ton, and furthermore, you won't want to drive it solo because the ride will be brutal. The only difference between 2500 (3/4 ton) and 3500 (1 ton) is rear spring capacity. One ton's are built to take on a camper or carry a Bobcat or similar." I took a look at the biggest 5th wheel I would possibly buy and its pin weight is around 1750 lbs, so by his logic, it would appear there isn't much need to go to a 1 ton.

 

Still lots of room for discussion, but this thread and what he had to say have been more useful than the hours of internet research I've done so far - thanks again for your thoughts.

 

Let me know if you have any response to what the dealer has to say.

[Taco]

The dealer's pretty much right on with his assessment, just be aware of the extra costs involved with diesel, specially if and when it goes off warranty.

[TerryH]

The following article is from today's National Post.

 

DIESEL POLLUTION STRESSES BRAIN: STUDY

Agence France-Presse

Paris Even brief exposure to the levels of diesel exhaust typical of heavy traffic is enough to stress the brain, according to a study published today. Previous studies have shown that particle matter from air pollution, even if measured in billionths of an metre, can end up lodged in the brain. But this is the first time scientists have demonstrated that inhalation of these nanoparticles actually alters brain activity, says the study, published in the British journal Particle and Fibre Toxicology. In experiments led by Paul Borm from Zuyd University in Holland, 10 volunteers spent one hour in a room filled with either clean air or exhaust from a diesel engine. The researchers found that after about 30 minutes the diesel exhaust started to induce a stress response in the cortex of the brain.

[reevesr1]

1. On the gas vs. diesel question - he thinks I would not be pleased with the towing capability of a gas truck. His assumption was that I would be pulling a 32' fifth with 12,500 lbs or so dry weight. He says: "The gas engine has lots of power on demand - wide open throttle - but won't sustain a continuous load such as the significant wind resistance that a big fifth wheel produces. With the gas engine it will hunt between 5th and 6th gear and get very frustrating to drive in windy or hilly terrain." So, he clearly recommends a diesel.

 

I don't have a big trailer, or a big truck, but...

I personally would not recommend buying any vehicle based primarily on how it performs in the worst conditions, ie, hilly and windy. I figure if the truck doesn't have some issues with conditions it will only meet in <5% (and probably less than 1%)of it's operating conditions, then I've overbought.

 

Seems to me it's like staffing a business. If you are staffed to handle the maximum peaks in your business, you are overstaffed.

 

I am going to be in this market myself in a couple of years. I really liked Taco's perspective. (maybe the first time I've said that!)

[reevesr1]

I don't have a big trailer, or a big truck, but...

I personally would not recommend buying any vehicle based primarily on how it performs in the worst conditions, ie, hilly and windy. I figure if the truck doesn't have some issues with conditions it will only meet in <5% (and probably less than 1%)of it's operating conditions, then I've overbought.

 

Seems to me it's like staffing a business. If you are staffed to handle the maximum peaks in your business, you are overstaffed.

 

I am going to be in this market myself in a couple of years. I really liked Taco's perspective. (maybe the first time I've said that!)

 

 

Edit:

When I lived in Texas, I noticed a large number of big 4wd pickups hauling older 4wd pickups to deer leases. These big beasts sure looked pretty hauling there older brethren on these mostly flat highways. When I asked my friend who had a big 4wd 3/4 ton diesel why he needed the 4wd to haul the 4wd bush truck, he said because the haul vehicle will one day be the bush vehicle. I said, "Really? That 2005 is one day going to replace that 1977 Ford? You are going to keep the new one until the ford wears out?" He said, "probably not. I really have the diesel for status."

 

Just like most big diesels parked in suburbia.

[Rainbow]

I pull a 28.5 5th with 92 3/4 Dodge Cummins average 14 miles per Cdn gal. In a real strong head wind between Medicine Hat and Calgary I was down to 12MPG I haul my trailer about 7000 km a year flat land a mountains never had a problem. I like the extra power I get from the diesel especially in an emergency. Safety is important to me if I don’t have enough staff to handle the business in the shop no one is going to die if I don’t have the power to handle an emergency someone might. My brother bought a 32 ft motor home last year with a V10 after his first summer of driving it he said that this next one will have a diesel, main reason is when climbing hills his engine is screaming and he only doing 50k/hr Fuel economy is less than ½ I get on my old Cummins.

[flyangler]

Another consideration: is diesel fuel commonly available in the places you want to go? I only ask because you've kind of got to hunt for it around here. Out on the highways where there are truckstops, it's everywhere.

[EdB]

most of the fuel stations around have diesel now due to the popularity of these trucks and the diesel cars. I read someone talk about the noise. The new diesels or a least the chev. allison duramax is no louder that a car. Consultant at work has one and you can't even hear it running. We have the ford f350 and 250 at work and you have to turn them off in the timmy's drive thru so you can order.

[reevesr1]

I like the extra power I get from the diesel especially in an emergency. Safety is important to me if I don’t have enough staff to handle the business in the shop no one is going to die if I don’t have the power to handle an emergency someone might.

 

I think horsepower is right up there with air bags, seatbelts, and front and rear crumple zones when talking about a vehicles 5 star safety rating.

 

Sorry, couldn't resist, but I tried to, I promise!

 

All kidding aside, if you ever want to read a discussion of how safety is used as a marketing tool, read a book called Freakonomics by Steve Levitt and Steve Dubner. Its actually a very enjoyable read and will certainly make you look at things with a different perspective.

 

On the horsepower issue: when used correctly, you are absolutely correct, horsepower can be used to get you out of sticky situations. However for many, knowing they have the horsepower gives them the false confidence that allows them to put themselves in sticky situations.

 

I bet if there was a study of accident rates and horsepower, you would find the two correlated. Anyway, sorry to hijack the thread. I just find this topic interesting.

[DIESEL]

I would go with DIESEL.

[Bobr]

I have a 23' 5th that comes in around 5300 soaking wet.

To tow it we have a Ram 1500 hemi w/ Cat backs, air intake and a programmer.

This truck has never really had an issue pulling this thing. Stomp on the gas and I can be doing 140 in no time, but the brakes I've already had to replace. Not just pads, rotors and fluid also. The stock setup lasted one season, warped the rotors and burned the fluid. I ended up flushing everything and going with drilled, slotted and heavy duty pads. They are holding up fine so far for 2 years now.

The transmission will "search" for a gear it can deal with constantly when towing on anything but flat ground if you don't use the "tow/haul" selector.

 

Personally I love the truck and can put up with its shortcomings when towing. For me, it's all about knowing your rig. (But I’ve driven most everything that has wheels or tracks, ‘cept a tank.) We don't tow with it that often, maybe 5 to 10 times a year. The rest of the time it's for in town/yard stuff, fishing and hauling the dog around. For us a 3/4ton diesel seems a bit much, that and funds were limited when we bought the thing.

 

That said it really is undersized for this size trailer.

If I were to buy another truck or larger trailer it would most definitely be a 3/4ton diesel, mostly because of the braking issue and the tranny "searching".

A buddy has 2007 2500HD and the power this thing has is amazing. (I'm a bit of a HP junkie.)

He says it tows his 26' 5th like a dream.

Another guy I know has a 1 ton and it's a beautiful (can't believe I ever said that about a Ford. shudder ) new Ford 350 super duty, crew cab, full size box & duals.

While it's an impressive machine with all sorts of goodies I thought the ride was rougher than I would have liked and it was massive. It felt like a school bus, there sure ain't no parking this thing in a tight spot.

New off the lot & loaded the price was as massive as the truck.

 

Hope this helps

Good luck