Trout Spey Or Switch Setup - Newbe

[sldrose]

Hi Guys,

 

I want to get into this double hand game and so I'm looking for advice.

 

I've been to the fishtales spey-o-rama day and cast a variety of rods and I left with more questions than

before I started.

 

The one thing I did learn is that there is such a variety of lengths and setups/styles, that I need help to dial it in

before I make a purchase.

 

 

As this will be primarily for the bow, I'm looking for a setup that will be 70% indicator nymphing, 30% swinging,

and something to help me learn double handed techniques.

 

I'm leaning towards switch as I've heard that the shorter length would allow it to be used from a drift boat, but doubt i'll single hand the rod much.

 

So I need something that can throw some distance, but also, it'll need to mend pretty well.

(The Skagit rigs I tried, the running line was too fine to mend properly.)

 

What are your recommendations for a good introductory rod? (I don't mind building myself)

and

What lines would suit the above scenario?

(is there anything with a mendable running line that has interchangeable tips for when I am swinging? or am I better off to get 2 separate lines?)

 

Thanks for the advice in advance,

and I am looking forward to connecting to those of you who do nymph with a double hand rig.

(I know the concept is akin to bait fishing in steelheading circles)

 

cheers

Sean

[Dangus]

Nymphing with a two hander sucks-even with a switch.

Don't fool yourself Into thinking a switch will ever be fished SH. I did, and I haven't single handed mine since the week I bought it.

[jdangler]

There are special lines that can incorporate running lines that are quite mendable & will allow you to get very long drifts. Pm me & we can get into this at length because it can be a lengthy process of guessing, buying & selling until you find what works for you. I have done it & it was fun, but quite a lengthy process & if I had known then what I know now I would have saved some time & money.

 

Bob

[BurningChrome]

For the line, take a look at the Rio Switch Chucker. It's like a skagit head only it has an integrated running line so you can mend it. Just throw on a sink tip of your choice when you want to swing streamers. The thing to keep in mind is that you might get extra distance out of your cast, but when that indicator moves will you have time to pick up all that line that's on the water and set the hook before the fish spits your fly?

 

For the rod it's such a personal choice that I would take a lesson first then show up to one of the spey-o-rama days to try different ones and decide from there. Everyone will suggest a rod that works for them, but it might not work for you.

[troutlover]

I have the Jet Switch 5/6 with a perfect its a good set up. The Jet Switch is an amazing rod its not a fast action stiffy. It loads very nice. The entire Jet line up is really an amazing rod. I first put a skagit set up on it and I hated it. Went with the switch chucker and it is the perfect line for everything you are looking to do. Nymphing with it is fine but you don't have the line control you have with a single hand. Streamer fishing is really fun with a switch. Biggest bonus for me is it takes a fraction of the effort to cast and I have a screwy shoulder that can inflame and get sore. It really saves the joints.

[sldrose]

Thanks guys for the great input.

 

So i'm hearing that nymphing has some drawbacks.

Is this only due to having more line out when trying to set the hook?

 

I was working on the presumption that the extra distance and mendability would get me into fish

I wouldn't be able to get to with a single hand. Not true?

 

So would you prefer a shorter 10'6 vs an 11' 6 for nymphing?

 

I'll take a look at the switch chucker, I looked at the Rio site, and assumed that the versitip lines paired with the 10ft MOW tips,

but that wasn't clear with the switch chucker as it wasn't labeled versitip.

 

Thanks for the insight guys, keep it coming.

[bighopper]

For streamer swinging, I recently have begun to use a 9ft 5wt Z-Axis rod with a short 11ft, 200g Rio Trout Max #2 shooting head with a 10 foot MOW tip attached. The Trout Max was attached to 30lb Rio Slick Shooter mono running line. One handed Spey casts of 50-65 ft or so are surprisingly easy. I no longer need room in back for the backcast, as was previously needed with a Teeny 200 sink tip.

 

I also use a 12 foot Spey rod for streamers, but for the Bow I think that I'll be using mainly the 9ft rod with the Rio Trout Max from now on, as it is much lighter.

[BurningChrome]

I was working on the presumption that the extra distance and mendability would get me into fish

I wouldn't be able to get to with a single hand. Not true?

Fish usually aren't so far out that I feel I need that kind of distance when nymphing. The good guides out there are usually getting their clients to cast back towards the bank, not to the middle of the river. I just find that for nymphing a single-handed rod gives me more versatility since I can easily switch up to a dry fly if fish start rising with a quick leader change. You can swing stones and caddis with a switch, but good luck if they're taking anything dead drifted.

[Dangus]

The further you get out, the more currents you have your line in. Mending becomes impossible (or just an excruciating pain in the ass). When nymphing, I don't usually feel the need to cast much further than 40 feet in most scenarios. Hell, I'd bet 80 percent is 30 or less.

Measure it...I think most guys add 20 to the estimate of their casts.

[sldrose]

The further you get out, the more currents you have your line in. Mending becomes impossible (or just an excruciating pain in the ass). When nymphing, I don't usually feel the need to cast much further than 40 feet in most scenarios. Hell, I'd bet 80 percent is 30 or less.

Measure it...I think most guys add 20 to the estimate of their casts.

 

Thanks Bron, Burning Chrome,

 

I guess that the issue. I'll see the occasional rise maybe 40ft horizontally out from the bank so I know the fish are holding further out in the main river.

 

I can make the cast with my single hand rod (casting between or under the trees on my backcast which is a pain in itself) but I still have the problem of faster current between where

I am standing, and where the fish is holding.

And at that distance, the rod isn't long enough to mend above the faster current, or i'm into my running line and it cant throw a decent mend.

 

I could look into a longer, maybe 10ft single hand nymph rod, but then i'm into switch lengths anyways, and don't get to learn something new.

 

But i'll accept the collective advice from everyone that nymphing with a switch rod is a PITA.

I've been warned!

 

I just don't see myself arriving at a run to swing a streamer through without having nymphed up the run first.

(been skunked less on the nymph vs the streamer)

 

But you're all converts so there must be something in it.

 

So far i'm looking at a switch 4/5 10-11ft, with something like the RIO switch chucker

 

thanks to jdangler for introducing me to the single hand skagit heads like the OPST commando.......One more thing to decipher.

 

I guess that's the thing with spey fishing. It's so configurable to you're own personal styles and preferences, which is awesome when

you know what you want, but confusing when you're just getting into it.

Especially when i'm not approaching this as a steelheader

 

I'm learning alot.

 

cheers guys

[BurningChrome]

I guess that's the thing with spey fishing. It's so configurable to you're own personal styles and preferences, which is awesome when

you know what you want, but confusing when you're just getting into it.

Especially when i'm not approaching this as a steelheader

My advice to you is to learn to spey cast (taking lessons from a qualified instructor is the best way to do this) and pick up a short spey or switch rod. They're tons of fun for swinging streamers in the fall when the wind is howling. Once you have a handle on spey casting with a two-handed rod, you can start to apply the casts to a single-hand rod. It's just one more tool in the arsenal and you can even use spey casts with your single hander for small dries when you don't have room to back cast. And eventually when you decide to chase anadromous fish you'll be ready to go...

 

Most importantly, remember that spey casting is not so much about distance, but about efficiency and keeping the fly in the water. When you're casting a big streamer on a single hander you usually have to make a few false casts and some double hauls to get it out there. Not so with a spey cast, so you're expending less effort on your casts and keeping the fly fishing longer. But, also remember that even though you can bomb line out there, there can still be fish next to the bank so make sure to flip your streamer in close before stepping into the water.

[bcubed]

I guess that the issue. I'll see the occasional rise maybe 40ft horizontally out from the bank so I know the fish are holding further out in the main river.

 

I can make the cast with my single hand rod (casting between or under the trees on my backcast which is a pain in itself) but I still have the problem of faster current between where I am standing, and where the fish is holding.

And at that distance, the rod isn't long enough to mend above the faster current, or i'm into my running line and it cant throw a decent mend.

 

That was always my favorite thing when guiding, the mid-river rises and clients point them out. Odds are the fish was 6" long. Just ignore them when they're out of your comfortable casting range. Odds are you will do way better if you focus on the jiggly water that is within 30 feet of the bank. If you really think the fish are at that 40 foot range, wade out. If it's too heavy to wade out to, odds are it's really not THAT good of a spot. Only little dudes can live out that far with consistency and do ok riding the current. You even have said that if you're having an issue with mends due to faster current, guess what, most fish aren't going to be out there. Or if they are, they're likely the ones you really don't want to waste your time with!

 

Yes, there are times where you'll get the odd pig in the middle of the river, but I can promise that if you focus on 30 feet of line out, and never wading over your belly button, you will catch way more fish and with way more consistency. This will also force you to move around more. Covering more water will increase your fish numbers as you'll run into all the aggressive fish, rather then trying to go through 9 fly changes to finally get ONE fish in one spot. I can tell you the number of times I've had the 'man test' while wet wading in the summer is pretty well nil. I can also tell you the number of times where I have caught fish inside of guys after they have left.

 

If you're REALLY committed to wanting to get that extra line mended and strictly nymph, I'd just go to a ten foot single hander, and then a line with a longer belly that you can lift and manipulate.

 

I have 2 speys and a switch, and while I don't nymph much anymore, you couldn't pay me to use any of them with an indicator on, more for the inefficiency than style points..

[Dangus]

Swinging flies on a two hander is wonderful. You should buy one just for that. If you want a versatile rod for the bow and maybe even steel I think you could go anywhere from 10'6 to 12 feet (switch or Spey) in 5-7 weight. Lean to heavier if you want steel. I fish summers with a 6 switch and winters with a 7/8 Spey.

[Fisher]

I fish the bow with a spey or switch 90% of the time. I believe you can't compare to the aggressive strike of a fly on the swing. I also love the delicate roll out of a snake roll or single spey.

The other 10% of the time I am nymphing and searching for snouts.

[mikeo2]

What flies are you guys using when swinging on the bow? Also what weight of skagit tip?

[BurningChrome]

What flies are you guys using when swinging on the bow? Also what weight of skagit tip?

Same as any streamer I'd use with a single hand rod - clousers, leeches, sculpins... If you're asking which rate sink tip on a skagit, I mainly use a Rio type 3 and adjust my depth by changing casting angle, mending, and walking it down.

[mikeo2]

Same as any streamer I'd use with a single hand rod - clousers, leeches, sculpins... If you're asking which rate sink tip on a skagit, I mainly use a Rio type 3 and adjust my depth by changing casting angle, mending, and walking it down.

 

Thanks for the info. I've been down practising my casting with t8 mostly and just some black and purple steelhead flies. Haven't expected to catch much with this setup but my main focus is practising my casting anyways.

[Fisher]

I'm using t8 and t11 with my 450gr skagit setup and polyleaders with my 285gr scandi. I like to use streamers such as sculpins, muddler variations and leaches with skagit, and classics such as soft hackles with my scandi.

[sldrose]

wow, my research into this is taking me in many different directions

 

not that I'd expect to set the hook at that distance, but.....

 

Tongariro Roll Cast

http://www.instagram.com/p/BGGSJDFk0eU/?r=1675598948

 

 

So i'm convinced that these water borne casts are pretty versatile, efficient and can get some killer distance.

 

So a starter switch rod 10 to 11ft, what do you guys recommend?

What's the best value

 

 

cheers

SeanD

[bcubed]

ditch the switch, unless you're going to swing. A ten foot single hand rod will be easier to handle and set the hook

you'll notice that was a single hand rod in that link, with a bobber...

[BurningChrome]

That also seemed like an overly-complicated cast to accomplish something quite simple.

[bcubed]

That also seemed like an overly-complicated cast to accomplish something quite simple.

 

ya that was a pretty strange extended perry poke

[sldrose]

ditch the switch, unless you're going to swing. A ten foot single hand rod will be easier to handle and set the hook

you'll notice that was a single hand rod in that link, with a bobber...

I'll be swinging too!

[gjtayl]

Hello Sean,

To me, what's important is understanding that going with a two handed rod is a specific style of fishing. The whole system was developed for swinging flies and covering water. For example, a person I know got into the two handed game, but has since gone back to his single hand rod as he prefers to stand in one spot, toss a nymph rig and then move on to the next spot. Myself, I really enjoy the cast, swing, step down style of fishing so don't use a single hand rod much anymore. You can fish all types of flies and multi fly rigs with a two hander, and it all works, but it's basically all swinging. As for gear, I use a 12' 5wt and find it's a good happy medium. Cheers.