Down With The Lingo. Fly Newbie

[PlayDoh]

First off I'm new to fly fishing, I've been out twice and seen fish rise right before me but I haven't even got a bump yet. However I'm still getting my 'poop in a group' regarding leaders, tippets, flies, and presentation, so I'm not too disappointed. I bought a Sage launch combo from Russel sports, which has a Reddington stillwater reel which is ok, but the line and leader that came with it is junk. I'm going to fish-tales to get setup correctly and get a collection of flies.

 

I've been reading till my eyes bleed every night (books and online) yet there are some terms I'm not sure I understand completely. I'll just list them out and try to explain what I think they mean.

 

Swinging -

 

When the fly begins to drag (line tightens) and the fly begins to move across current toward the rod tip. The speed of the swing can be altered by adjusting the drag/tension and by tossing mends which create slack allowing the fly to drift/sink more and swing less.

 

Stripping -

 

This I'm grey on, since I think it can be used more ways then one. Yet its the action of pulling line with the non-rod hand (line hand) either off the reel or from the line in the water. If I was stripping when I'm retrieving then I'm pulling in line, if I'm stripping while casting or to let more line out then I'm stripping off the reel.

 

I plan on taking course next spring and reading all winter, but I'd love to nab one of these risers I see all evening. I've been casting everyday and I've gotten the basics down, yet mends and roll-casts I haven't really gotten yet,...... ok, so I can't do them yet. I know that my line is to say the least not helping. I've read about stripping in 'jerks' while retrieving, yet I'm unsure oh 'how' I should retrieve, or even when.

 

I usualy cast up stream and let the fly drift naturally with everything else in the 'film'. Then at diffrent distances downstream I try to alter the speed that the fly "swings"? or comes around, then either reel in slowly keeping the fly just below the surface till its close enough so that when I recast it won't 'rip' out of the water and spook fish. Usually when my leader is half way out.

 

I have a spot after the caresland weir, thats on a side current/branch off the main Bow flow. (I'm a poet) The current is about a third of the main flow. There are 2 spots I 'work' One is a 10' & + pool that has some downed trees hanging over it that I can get onto. The beauty is that I don't even need to cast or cast far, since I'm about 12' out over the water.

 

Its picture perfect regarding structure, however theres an Otter that comes out from the trees I'm on just before dark and slaps his tail hard when he sees me & I think were having a territorial dispute. However I've heard the same slap while just arriving at my 2 spot at dusk, & I'm not up on my Otter behavior.

 

Anyways, I've only tried a SJW and a Prince Nymph shortly until I snagged and lost them, then the rest of my $20 'bow river essentials'. From this weeks studies I want Midges, BWO, Hoppers, and Fall Caddis?, yet I've been told I can't go wrong with SJW. I'm interested in Streamers and it sounds like I'd retrieve them almost like I would a spinner, near the bottom and imitating a minnow. However at dusk the fish are rising all around me and I've been trying to keep my flies near the surface and 'swinging' them where I think the fish are, or last seen them.

 

If you can picture this location and conditions and can suggest something to try I'd greatly appreciate it. I'm not looking for a complete how-to catch a fish, just some tips. I've read a few books, and last trip I tried 2 & 3 wets on one leader, and I've been trying to drift the flies to the fish and avoiding wading when I can.

 

One side question, I've read that you can use Scotchgard to keep dries, dry. Since I know it has to be some petroleum based um, toxin, I'm not sure if its safe. I know it wont kill fish directly, but I'd rather not pollute at all. I know there are non-toxic dressings, but I also have a full can of Scotchgard that has no use. Then again I still have half a jerry can of home-made Napalm, & some things are best left alone.

[rhuseby]

First of all, don't be stressed because you haven't gotten a fish in your first two trips. It took me about 10 outings before I finally persuaded a trout to accept what I was offering. The Bow is also a difficult stream to be starting you flyfishing career on.

 

A course is a great plan, but there are also guys on this forum who are willing to help out beginners such as yourself. Hooking up with one of them is a great way to quickly upgrade the skills.

 

Learn to mend your line, because that is one of the keys to getting a truly dead drift with your fly. If your line is tight and straight for sure you will be having some drag. There are times when fish want a dragging fly, because it simulates the behavior of the real bugs. Swinging caddis imitations is an example, because caddis are very active little buggers. Right now, the fish you see rising are probably taking blue-winged olives (bwos) which are small, size 18 and down, and float without moving for long distances on the surface while their wings dry.

 

If you are going to fish dries right now, a 5x leader will help give the small flies a natural drift with relatively good strength for fighting fish. A size 18 adams or other dull fly will probably get some takes from fish on feeding bwos. You should start off by dead drifting the fly over the rising fish. Make sure it lands a few feet above the fish so it has time to see the fly approaching. With small flies, the fish won't move far to take it, so the drift has to pretty much go right over it. If you miss on a cast just keep casting over the fish as long as it's rising.

 

To fish streamers, just get a black wooly bugger, about a size 8, and use at least a 3x leader because the hits are often very hard. Cast downstream and across at an angle, more straight across in slow water and more downstream in faster water. Let the fly pull around until is is straight below you, then jiggle about 6 inches a few times, slowly strip a few feet of line and then recast. There many other effective streamer patterns and other techniques that are often more productive, but an outing spent with this technique and fly will guarantee a few hits at the very least.

 

Wading in the water is usually required to get into the best position to fish on the Bow. As long as you go slowly and don't make big waves, it usually doesn't scare the fish 30-40 feet away, and many times I've hooked a fish only a few feet away on my first cast.

 

It's okay to pick the fly up off the water with line out. Just make sure the fly has drifted well below the fish you're trying for, then start the backcast slowly and accelerate so that the flypulls quietly off the surface. If you start the backcast hard, the fly usually makes a loud pop that can scare fish.

 

There a number of good fly floatants available. I use Gherke's Gink, but there are others preferred by good anglers. Try a few different one's over time and you'll have a favorite.

 

Nymph fishing is effective in almost any water, but to begin with riffly water like the head of a pool is the easiest to learn in. The fish are not overly spooky and you can get quite close. Use no more than two flies about a foot apart to start with, to reduce tangles. Put a strike indicator on the leader above the flies, 1-1/2 to 2 times the depth of the water you're in and then a split shot above the flies. You'll need to experiment with the size of the shot and the flies to get the set-up to when you touch the bottom almost every drift, without actually snagging. Every time the indicator moves, stops, submerges, twitchs, does anything, strike. Most times it isn't a fish, but that way you'll be striking when it is a fish.

 

Hopefully there are a few tips here that will give you a starting point. There will be a lots of really good advice from some of the other guys here as well. If you want to send me a PM, we can get together some time. Good luck with the fish.

[toolman]

Great advice flyslinger and I would add, Otters do not slap their tails, but beavers do and quite loudly.

[brewingup]

Great reply flyslinger!

I'm not a 'pro' so I'm not sure if I should be even posting a reply.

 

However I feel I'm in a similar situation - trying to read as much as possible and then trying to apply it...

 

I found that reading anything I could find on fish behavior really helped me to start understanding (and I'm still learning!!) the best way to apply a lot of the techniques you will read about, and where to apply them to catch fish.

[wongrs]

i also didn't catch jack for the first dozen times i went fishing. i'd also suggest that you try to speak with fly fisherman that you see in the fly shops and on the river for tips and such. just mention to them that "i'm new to this, done it less than a dozen times and just wanted to ask you a couple questions" or something along those lines. i think i spoke to everybody on the river that i saw for the first 2 years on every trip for tips on fly selection etc. it helped me out immensely.

[fisher26]

I'm a experienced fly fisher (relatively 6 years, so not all that long). I also bought a sage combo from Russels with line and leader, keep in mind I'm a cheapo so this rod and reel combo is like luxury to me (not kidding; but it's the fishermen not the fishing equipment that catches the fish). What made you infer that the line was junk? I don't know maybe it is but it seems to cast well to me (relatively again I've never cast a line over $30 )

 

 

Does anyone else own that line/know about it for if it's truly a bad line maybe I’ve been casting crap lines since I’ve fly fished and compromised my experience!

[reevesr1]

I echo everything above, and will add a couple of comments of my own:

1. Try to get out on one of the smaller creeks or rivers nearby. The fish can be more cooperative, the water easier to read, and nothing substitutes for actually hooking and catching something. I started fly fishing on the Bow as well, but it isn't always an easy river to fish.

 

2. While you should not hesitate to change methods if conditions dictate (and for us newbies, that can be hard to determine), I would highly recommend spending most of your time nymphing. I have caught several on various dries, but struggle with streamers (don't know why). For me, nymphing has been far more productive. I do realize it is difficult to figure out what to use. But if you read the bow river reports, many of the guys will tell you what they are catching on. Pay attention to size! If you don't have that exact fly, nor have time to go to a fly shop to get some, at least match the size. You can also do an internet search on the fly and try to get as close to it as possible with what you have. All else fails, put a prince, pheasant tail, hairs ear, or evil weevil below the worm (always have on a worm!!). Anyway, don't think that you have to use exactly what you hear is working. You don't. Also, to repeat what was said above, set the hook LOTS!

 

3. Fishing with friends who know what they are doing is great, but at the end of the day, most of them will spend some time teaching and then they will start fishing. (I've been fortunate enough to meet a few that will really teach, they are not the norm). Most of us have limited time to fish and while we may like to teach, we LOVE to fish. Hard to get the rod out of our hands. So if you really want someone to teach you in a concentrated fashion, you are best served paying for it. Forget getting new line, leader, whatever. If you can swing it (he'll teach you what that means by the way), hire someone to give you a walk and wade lesson. I took mine from Maxwell, and you will find others here that did as well. I cannot recommend this enough. Your learning curve will shorten dramatically. And you will absolutely catch fish. I took mine just over a year ago. I am an expert in no ones book, but I catch fish pretty much every time I go.

 

4. Keep a good attitude. You will take out many tangles, catch many trees, miss many fish, loose many flies, hook yourself, hook a friend, fall in the river (no wait, thats me)....but just wait until you hook your first big fish 10 ft from you, he jumps right in your face, takes off and he hits the middle of the river so fast he takes your breath away. Nothing compares, at least for me.

 

Good luck dude. Enjoy the ride. We only get to learn once!

[EdB]

Gezz, great post rick, I'm with rick. Nymphing is a good way to get into your first couple of fish. San Juan and a bead head prince below was working excellent yesterday. Let some of us know when you are going down and we can meet up with ya. I'm not a pro but i have listened to the guys on here and they have really helped me. Your hooked 4 life the first biggin you get in your hands.

Ed

[OneMoreLastCast]

Flyslinger gives some great advice that should help you a lot. (Edited to add Great points by Rick as well....posted while I was typing).

 

I will add something that will also hopefully help as well.

 

Don't have such high expectations so early into your dive into Fly Fishing. Break down your angling into different parts and focus on individual aspects of it until you feel confident and then move onto the next phase.

 

Seeing rising Trout and not being able to catch them can frustrate the most experienced Anglers out there, so sometimes for a beginner on the Bow, it would be best to ignore the Risers and continue fishing Nymphs or Streamers. Some times are easier to catch fish on the surface than other times, and this time of year can be tough. Not only is the water low and clear, the fish have had a full season to get educated. They also don't necessarily feed on the bugs you think they are feeding on. Take BWO's for example....The water can be covered in them and the ones visible are matched by a size 16 or 18 pattern, but the fish might be feeding on the "Psuedos" that are matched with a size 22 to 26....Good luck catching Trout that have set their sights on these little guys.

 

By learning how to catch fish on Nymphs will help you eventually help you to be able to catch them on the surface because it will, or should, help you learn what the fish are eating. If the fish are feeding on certain Nymphs, Pupa, Larva, etc. sub-surface, they may eventually feed on them on the surface as well.

 

Catching fish is obviously your goal, so a SJW is a good pattern to have on your rig, but don't become dependant on it. Be sure to take the time to learn which insects the fish should be feeding on at the time you're on the water and try to match it. You will catch more fish in the long run if you learn your bugs.

 

Like I said, focus on individual aspects of Fly Fishing before moving onto the next and it will make it easier to get the answers and results you are looking for. Eventually, (and it won't take long), you will be comfortable fishing Dries, Nymphs and/or Streamers when the situation calls for it, then you spend the rest of your life not being satisfied with how much you know.

 

Good luck

[PlayDoh]

Wow, I'm very thankful for the time and advice, much appreciated. I'm beginning to realize that a lot of fly fisherman are like myself (at least I'd like to think so), in that you all are very patient and helpful with others far beyond the 'norm'. I'm sure it has a lot to do with the nature of the sport, with so many details/factors with sharing I'm not sure it would have survived since whenever it started. I've read there are fly fishing books from the 15 century. I'm sure Amazon has some copies. lol

 

Believe it or not I've printed all the info here so that when I'm out at the river I don't forget everything, like my first trip.

I looked like I was trying to chop down trees, whip cracking my poor flies zipping at Mach 2 into the water. Then I stopped and skimmed through the books and realized I had forgotten the first few chapters and was doing everything wrong.

 

I bought some flies, line and leaders (all 4X) tonight before I read this, Do'h no 3X or 5X. I bought some #10 prince nymphs, some #12 Hares ear, a couple woolly buggers and leaches #8 I think. I also have a #14 Elk hair caddis and a #14 copper John left that I wrongly assumed were 'too small'. I thought since there was lots of leaves and debris in the water they would be hard to see.

 

As for the line I'm sure 'junk' was a bit strong a word, and I haven't tried the new line yet either so my opinion should be taken lightly. I hadn't even cast a fly rod before I coughed up $300 for mine 2 weeks ago. However my leader that came with it was brittle like it was old and sun baked, the slightest tug and snap. The new line I have looks way slipperier then whats on it. To me it felt like I had a Mustang Cobra with 13" tires, in that the rod outperformed the line.

 

I was hoping someone would comment on the Beaver, thats actually what I thought it was at first since the slap was loud, but I didn't see any gnawed wood around which I'd expect to see since I'm obviously fishing off his house. However all the trees fell when it flooded out a couple years ago, so I suppose Mr Beaver got a free home, Pre-fab. lol

 

I think my chances of getting at least hooked into a trout are decent now, not that I'll be upset if I don't. I've never felt so 'connected' to nature as I did standing in the middle of the river for hours. My friend said "oh your doing the whole 'River runs through it' thing eh?". I replied "No its 'A river runs through ME'. which I'm know he understand completely, nor do I think anyone could until they've been there. I've hunted and fished my whole life, and I used to live up north and spend weeks in the bush, but this was somehow more intimate to me. Its probably the absence of a combustible engine, or Point and shoot interface. I LOVE fishing, yet tossing a minnow out from shore and planting my pole isn't even fishing in my eyes. I won't sit and jig for very long either without drifting by some weeds hunting for a 20lbs Toothy Jack.

 

I like a challenge, and I think finally getting setup to fly fish will provide one to say the least. Once again, thank you for your advice everyone.

[Guest bigbadbrent]

3. Fishing with friends who know what they are doing is great, but at the end of the day, most of them will spend some time teaching and then they will start fishing. (I've been fortunate enough to meet a few that will really teach, they are not the norm). Most of us have limited time to fish and while we may like to teach, we LOVE to fish. Hard to get the rod out of our hands. So if you really want someone to teach you in a concentrated fashion, you are best served paying for it. Forget getting new line, leader, whatever. If you can swing it (he'll teach you what that means by the way), hire someone to give you a walk and wade lesson. I took mine from Maxwell, and you will find others here that did as well. I cannot recommend this enough. Your learning curve will shorten dramatically. And you will absolutely catch fish. I took mine just over a year ago. I am an expert in no ones book, but I catch fish pretty much every time I go.

 

 

And to add to this, while i do like to FISH while i take someone out..if they ask me a question, i'll tell them...whats better respect then someone asking you how you made that cast, or how you hooked that last one...pretty much anyone will teach you..if you see some guy on the river who's just slaying fish left and right, go and ask him for a pointer or two..sure there might be a jerk, but most people will gladly share..

[rhuseby]

Great posts by everyone, but Rickr nailed the one that I missed big time. Attitude, keep it positive because you will get tangles, screw up casts, etc. Relax, enjoy.

[reevesr1]

And to add to this, while i do like to FISH while i take someone out..if they ask me a question, i'll tell them...whats better respect then someone asking you how you made that cast, or how you hooked that last one...pretty much anyone will teach you..if you see some guy on the river who's just slaying fish left and right, go and ask him for a pointer or two..sure there might be a jerk, but most people will gladly share..

 

And if Brent sees a fish from above, he will stay there and direct your casts until you catch it! But he'll forget his net...

[Guest bigbadbrent]

hahah....i'll never live that down..will i

[Teck71]

Great topic Playdoh,

 

As a noob as well alot of my questions have been answered here. I think Rickr is right Attitude is 90% relax enjoy, the way is see fishing for me it is 20% action, 20% solitude, 20%location, 10%challenge and 30% fish catching. so as long as I can do good on 3 of those it was a good day.

 

so tight lines and thanks for askin the questions I didn't

Teck

[Din]

I bought some flies, line and leaders (all 4X) tonight before I read this, Do'h no 3X or 5X.

 

Your 4x will be just fine. I wouldn't bother spending the extra money IMO.

[DutchDryfly]

As I have to agree with most of the great advice given, I have to disagree with the advice to start with nymphs.

I always start learningsessions for newbies with dries. Why, because then the newbie can see what the current does with flies.

If you don't understand the currents, there is no change you will ever properly fish nymphs or streamers.

[Hawgstoppah]

As I have to agree with most of the great advice given, I have to disagree with the advice to start with nymphs.

I always start learningsessions for newbies with dries. Why, because then the newbie can see what the current does with flies.

If you don't understand the currents, there is no change you will ever properly fish nymphs or streamers.

 

ahh my friend, that's where you have the beauty of using an indicator.... you *CAN* properly fish nymphs if you treat the indcator as a dry, and keep the drag off of it, your going to catch fish on the bow. Provided a) you have the right flies and depth figured out, and your in a location that is holding fish

[Hawgstoppah]

I used to say there was 5 phases of fly fishing. You can see where a lot of people on this board are just by most of the posts and comments they make.

 

Phase 1 - just picking up the sport... bought a rod, learning to cast etc.

Phase 2 - landed the first fish, starting to get the odd one here and there.

Phase 3 - complete obsession with numbers and size of fish.

Phase 4 - land a truly HUGE fish you don't think you'll ever top... start realizing there's gotta be more to fishing

Phase 5 - back to the roots. You enjoy every trip out, fish or no fish. You go more for scenery, friends, and conversation. The actual quality of fishing means very little. Small fish, big fish, who cares... you like them all

[DutchDryfly]

ahh my friend, that's where you have the beauty of using an indicator.... you *CAN* properly fish nymphs if you treat the indcator as a dry, and keep the drag off of it, your going to catch fish on the bow. Provided a) you have the right flies and depth figured out, and your in a location that is holding fish

 

 

Fishing with a bobber is no flyfishing in my book. (have done it when everything else failed, but there are better rods for that kind of fishing)

 

Catching fish the first few outings should not be a goal, getting understanding of the water is much more important.

 

Rob ( at phase 5 but will go back to 4 if a huge fish is around )

[birchy]

Sweet.. I've got Phase 1, 2, and 3 nailed in my first year!!

[toolman]

No way guys...Big Fish Forever....

[Hawgstoppah]

Greg , Greg, Greg..... *sigh*

 

Hopefully we can get you outta phase 3 on our steelhead trip, aye?

[ladystrange]

did anyone hit on patience? and more patience. i guess it goes in hand with attitude.

 

i remember when i started fly fishing agian (after 9 years of not) and i read as many books as i possibly could and still for the first few years, except for the odd fluke, i didnt catch much of anything. i looked at it as casting practice, learn to read the water. i fished mostly with dries - learn to read the water, how to present. i still have caught most of my fish on dries - except for pike. i also got very good at untangling my line, hooks, etc. i found the more casting practice i had - even in the park with a piece of yarn, my casting got much better, i had fewer tangles and was able to place my yarn where i wanted to. then came distance. i'm still working on my double haul. patience, all in good time. find a few good people here to fish with, read the advice and practice, practice and at some point it will stop being practice and become catching fish on a consistent basis. have fun, there are a lot of very knowledgeable people here willing to offer advice. listen well, it has helped me a lot.

[OneMoreLastCast]

Fishing with a bobber is no flyfishing in my book. (have done it when everything else failed, but there are better rods for that kind of fishing)

 

Catching fish the first few outings should not be a goal, getting understanding of the water is much more important.

 

Rob ( at phase 5 but will go back to 4 if a huge fish is around )

 

I agree with both Hawgstoppah and DDF....

 

Depending on which streams someone decides to learn the craft on, Dry Flies is definitely the way to go for the reason mentioned, plus We all love the excitement of seeing the Trout rise to your fly. Unfortunately, if someone decides to learn on the Bow, it can be very frustrating and might be too discouraging for a beginner. That's why I suggested nymphing, because I had the Bow in mind.

 

I agree with Hawgstoppah on the indicators and I also partly agree with DDF on it. I believe a person will be a better angler if they learn to Nymph without the aid of an idicator and then uses one when the situation calls for it. Too many Fly fisherpeople are completely dependant on indicators and there's nothing wrong with that, but they would become more advanced if they took the time to learn to Nymph without one.

Not using an idicator makes a person become better at line control and feel, among other things, so if a person becomes proficient at fishing without an indicator and then puts one on, they will be better for it.

 

Just my opinion.