F%#king Oil Companys Did It Again

[dutchie]

3000 barrels of oil just leaked into the red deer river , 50 klms from red deer

[dutchie]

they still don't know what happen , but i can just see the mess this is going to cause , this maybe will wake a few people up about the so called pipeline over into skeena steelhead country , it can happen anytime and anywhere ,

[Guest NamasteMushroom]

You shouldn't talk about this kind of stuff.

 

The Ferengi don't like it....

[dutchie]

here she is ,

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nation...article4241238/

 

 

early estimate of 1,000 to 3,000 barrels ,

 

 

 

 

they will lie about it anyway , could be 10,000 barrels for all we will ever know , be another oil company coverup ,

[Roast]

This is truly horrible news:(

[reevesr1]

here she is ,

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nation...article4241238/

 

 

early estimate of 1,000 to 3,000 barrels ,

 

 

 

 

they will lie about it anyway , could be 10,000 barrels for all we will ever know , be another oil company coverup ,

 

Thanks for the insult. I, and many many other totally ethical people work in this industry, no matter if people believe it or not. Now excuse me while I go to my "how to lie to the general public in a facebook/youtube environment."

 

And I hope they clean it up and find out why it broke and make the appropriate changes. And fine whoever is responsible.

 

[thecamel]

That is it, I am done using oil and gas. I am converting my house to solar power for heat and power. I am going to ride my bike everywhere and sell my car.

 

Good job Dutchie for doing your part already, hauling your jet boat that burns vegetable oil instead of gas with your Toyota Prius.

 

Mike.

[robo11]

Love this city, you can't say shiz about an oil company without getting the "you use oil, so shut up, let them do whatever they want, stop driving, don't heat your house, this city lives off oil, so shut up and dont say anything"

 

The people of this city are so brainwashed, I use gas/oil, make $ off people in the biz, but guess what, its OK to questions what they do.

[Guest NamasteMushroom]

Thanks for the insult. I, and many many other totally ethical people work in this industry, no matter if people believe it or not. Now excuse me while I go to my "how to lie to the general public in a facebook/youtube environment."

 

And I hope they clean it up and find out why it broke and make the appropriate changes. And fine whoever is responsible.

 

Rickr,

 

I agree that there are many ethical people in the industry, but are you saying that some of the largest players in the industry haven't lied (on several occasions). Certainly BP has lied, and Exxon Mobil.

 

Is it any wonder that many people have a bad taste in their mouth when it comes to the energy industry?

 

Hypothetically, (and I hope I'm wrong), what if there is a fish kill on the Red Deer, and some individuals including members in this community are no longer able to operate their renewable businesses because of the negligence of nonrenewable resource extraction? Will the fines be enough? Do appropriate changes exist to truly prevent this from occurring in the future?

 

It would seem with the current Omnibus budget bill that regulations regarding pipelines etc. will be further lightened. And with all due respect Rickr, the large players in your industry (who make the decisions) have hardly been ethical. The fishing industry on the Gulf coast is still in trouble and will remain so for years.....and how are all those people doing up in Valdez?

[Guest Wrecker]

Thanks for the insult. I, and many many other totally ethical people work in this industry, no matter if people believe it or not. Now excuse me while I go to my "how to lie to the general public in a facebook/youtube environment."

 

And I hope they clean it up and find out why it broke and make the appropriate changes. And fine whoever is responsible.

 

Wow, sensitive... The way you spun this personal you are you are a good fit with the Oil co's lackluster PR drivel. You work for BP by chance?

 

Looking at the history of oil co's and pipeline operators and how they initially report volumes on leaks, spills, etc, Dutchies comments are spot on.

[reevesr1]

Of course I understand the bitter taste. But I also get very tired of always being painted with the same brush. This thought that we all sit around in little rooms (actually, we have lairs) plotting the takeover of the universe while we subject our minions to waste and despair.

 

Anyway, getting a bit dramatic with my sarcasm. I'll stay out of this one from now on. No objectivity. (or maybe, since I fish all over the place AND work in the industry and do more to serve the fishing interests around here than many I have a bit more objectivity than given credit for). But I'm staying out for now on anyway. I hope.

[Guest NamasteMushroom]

But I'm staying out for now on anyway. I hope.

 

How convenient.

[dutchie]

Thanks for the insult. I, and many many other totally ethical people work in this industry, no matter if people believe it or not. Now excuse me while I go to my "how to lie to the general public in a facebook/youtube environment."

 

And I hope they clean it up and find out why it broke and make the appropriate changes. And fine whoever is responsible.

 

ok Tex , tell me just how i insulted you , gimme a break , i know you work in the industry , i have many friends that also work in it , nothing wrong with with working in the industry , your industry just needs to clean up it's act a little better then it's been doing ,

 

if i went a got a 4 litter jug of oil and went to your front yard and poured it all over YOUR grass and lawn , i'm pretty sure you'd be a tad bit pissed , and i'm only talking 4 litters not 3000 gallons ,this of course is just a example so you could maybe see how i look at it in the big picture

 

i know we need gas and oil in the world , just hate to see oil leaks anywhere near water ways when there is no need for it , or build em better

 

 

 

[dutchie]

http://www.reddeeradvocate.com/news/provin..._158139115.html

 

this is what i'm talking about Rick , i'm not trying to pick on you or anyone that works in the industry , the people in this country and your country are just getting a tad bit sick of these oil spills ,

 

it's time for the oil industry to start cleaning up it's act , i think this just might be the same company , not 100% sure ,

[pkk]

Yes we all are users, and it is tough to change that. How about using some of the billions of dollars profit to help prevent this to happen. Common it can be prevented but costs would cut into profits.

 

Rickr don't take it so personal, you are not responsible the company you work for IS.

PK

 

[ÜberFly]

Well, no not the actual company Rick works for, but the companies that have pipelines that leak!!

 

P

 

Yes we all are users, and it is tough to change that. How about using some of the billions of dollars profit to help prevent this to happen. Common it can be prevented but costs would cut into profits.

 

Rickr don't take it so personal, you are not responsible the company you work for IS.

PK

 

[Guest Wrecker]

Of course I understand the bitter taste. But I also get very tired of always being painted with the same brush. This thought that we all sit around in little rooms (actually, we have lairs) plotting the takeover of the universe while we subject our minions to waste and despair.

 

Anyway, getting a bit dramatic with my sarcasm. I'll stay out of this one from now on. No objectivity. (or maybe, since I fish all over the place AND work in the industry and do more to serve the fishing interests around here than many I have a bit more objectivity than given credit for). But I'm staying out for now on anyway. I hope.

 

Gotta comment on this.. I've been a lurker here for years and have read many posts by you, rickr.

 

You sure like to make things about you, You get tired of being painted with the same brush, you do more to serve the fishing interests around here than many. Blah, blah, blah..

 

Well guess what, this isn't about you!

[reevesr1]

Fair enough.

[mvdaog]

You're right this has nothing to do with rickr so we can drop that topic of conversation and lay off. He's never been rude or attacked anyone on this before and made a good point about lumping everyone in one group.

 

Back to the topic at hand, there's nothing anyone can say about this fact: with enough time in operation, any pipeline or tanker operation at sea will spill. It's physics and probability.

 

Individuals vary on how they weigh the risks and benefits.

 

To the companies who run these operations, risk stratification is solely based on profit - especially if publicly traded, they aren't legally allowed to operate in any other way than to maximize profits. Their "care" about the environment is two fold: Their name in the press and how it's represented, and the fines that may come from negligence.

 

People who work for these companies usually have mixed feelings, caring about the environment for the sake of the environment even if it's not necessarily profitable for the company, and believe that a lot of their work is necessary for our society and try to make it as safe as possible.

 

Some people believe most of our land and water has been tampered with already and that which still exists (somewhat) intact should be protected, and the already existent operations should be made cleaner and safer. These types are usually against new operations that would threaten these intact healthy(ish) places.

 

Then there's those who basically believe any operation that is extracting resources anywhere is a bad thing.

 

Most of us land somewhere in the middle two groups. Where do you fit in?

 

 

Given that we live in a world governed by the laws of physics, and if operating these will eventually spill oil, I'd rather keep these type of operations from expanding and encroaching into places that I enjoy and that I'd like my kids to enjoy someday. This spill on the Red Deer is tragic and hopefully won't decimate the fishing. But this is PEANUTS compared to the type of spill that could happen with the Northern Gateway. I wish people would give up their ideologies and stubborn attitude and stop to think for a bit - I believe they'd realize that that is one project that really isn't worth it for our well-being as Canadians. But some people can't get past their automatic reactions and can't get away from the emotions that are invoked when you're part of the "team" against "them"- in this case "tree-huggers environmental terrorist extremists" vs "redneck conservative ignorant rig heads". I wish we'd get together on this issue and stop the northern gateway as one team...

 

But the bottom line is the people in charge run these organizations for profit, as required by law in most cases. Without fear of financial and public perception retribution, they really have no reason to 'clean up' their operations.

 

Notice how press isn't allowed to the site? Very interesting... how is that even possible, we live in Canada for god's sake this is a free country and we should have access to this! It affects us!

 

Man this puts a damper on my day. Snap back to reality........ I hope I recognize Canada when I'm 70 years old............

 

 

[Guest NamasteMushroom]

You're right this has nothing to do with rickr so we can drop that topic of conversation and lay off. He's never been rude or attacked anyone on this before and made a good point about lumping everyone in one group.

 

Back to the topic at hand, there's nothing anyone can say about this fact: with enough time in operation, any pipeline or tanker operation at sea will spill. It's physics and probability.

 

Individuals vary on how they weigh the risks and benefits.

 

To the companies who run these operations, risk stratification is solely based on profit - especially if publicly traded, they aren't legally allowed to operate in any other way than to maximize profits. Their "care" about the environment is two fold: Their name in the press and how it's represented, and the fines that may come from negligence.

 

People who work for these companies usually have mixed feelings, caring about the environment for the sake of the environment even if it's not necessarily profitable for the company, and believe that a lot of their work is necessary for our society and try to make it as safe as possible.

 

Some people believe most of our land and water has been tampered with already and that which still exists (somewhat) intact should be protected, and the already existent operations should be made cleaner and safer. These types are usually against new operations that would threaten these intact healthy(ish) places.

 

Then there's those who basically believe any operation that is extracting resources anywhere is a bad thing.

 

Most of us land somewhere in the middle two groups. Where do you fit in?

 

 

Given that we live in a world governed by the laws of physics, and if operating these will eventually spill oil, I'd rather keep these type of operations from expanding and encroaching into places that I enjoy and that I'd like my kids to enjoy someday. This spill on the Red Deer is tragic and hopefully won't decimate the fishing. But this is PEANUTS compared to the type of spill that could happen with the Northern Gateway. I wish people would give up their ideologies and stubborn attitude and stop to think for a bit - I believe they'd realize that that is one project that really isn't worth it for our well-being as Canadians. But some people can't get past their automatic reactions and can't get away from the emotions that are invoked when you're part of the "team" against "them"- in this case "tree-huggers environmental terrorist extremists" vs "redneck conservative ignorant rig heads". I wish we'd get together on this issue and stop the northern gateway as one team...

 

But the bottom line is the people in charge run these organizations for profit, as required by law in most cases. Without fear of financial and public perception retribution, they really have no reason to 'clean up' their operations.

 

Notice how press isn't allowed to the site? Very interesting... how is that even possible, we live in Canada for god's sake this is a free country and we should have access to this! It affects us!

 

Man this puts a damper on my day. Snap back to reality........ I hope I recognize Canada when I'm 70 years old............

 

Good post.

 

There is no denying however, that the ideologies inherent in these companies and their modus operandi are infectious to the general public. In this province it is more evident than others. The BP spill was conveniently ignored in general conversation (as I can recall on this board); and we all know the feelings on climate change in Alberta (despite a worldwide consensus in the peer reviewed works of the scientific community....people here still deny it ???).

 

On this topic itself...how many active users of FFC will choose (by influence of job and $$$) to remain quiet about this spill (by the way, this doesn’t just apply to people in the petroleum industry).

 

We all have to work, and there is no doubt that oil is a necessary commodity...but I have no time for sell outs, and profiteers that knowingly deny the truth to secure and protect their conscience and personal gain.

 

[dutchie]

Exactly , this is not about anyone person or any personal attack

Rick feels passionate about his job and career as much as does about fly fishing

 

We all have friends who in one way or another have something to do with the oil industry , they don"t like it any more then the rest of us of what just happen

 

I just wish that these company's would do a little better job of keeping away from rivers , that's all , will it change , maybe if the oil company's start giving those who screw up a blast then the people might have a little different outlook on it

[dutchie]

well it was the same outfit that had the last spill , same area ,

 

here is a good read on the mess

 

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/national...?service=mobile

[DonAndersen]

Pipeline failures are quite commons. See: http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/minerals-metals/mat...logy/picon/3308

 

From which this is copied.

 

As of the end of 1997, there were approximately 266000 km of energy-related pipelines under the jurisdiction of the Alberta Energy Utility Board. The inventory of pipelines in Alberta continues to grow, averaging an annual increase of about 4% during the 1990s. These pipelines carry many substances, including:

 

sour natural gas

highly volatile products (propane, ethane, butane, and combinations)

crude oil (sweet and sour)

oil effluent

multiphase (sweet and sour) gas and oil

light volatile products (liquid fuels)

natural gas

fuel gas

salt water

miscellaneous liquids

gases

fresh water

 

From 1980-1997, a total of 12 137 operating pipeline failures were recorded, averaging 674 failures per year. Internal corrosion caused the majority (about 50%) of these failures.

[Rockyman]

Although the majority of the environmental criticisms of Alberta is focussed on the oil sands, it is very disheartening to see the ongoing damage that is occuring in the remainder of the province. I love fishing the Freeman yet the oil and gas industry has a ridiculous presence in the area. If you can't see or smell the oil and gas wells you can hear them or the production plants while fishing some of the best areas of this river. Oil wells are starting to become more prevalent in the Blackstone drainage and I fear they will continue to become more common. Look at what's happening in the Little Smokey drainage. The North Ram is under pressure as well but at least that rig camp is no longer present on one of the most popular access points. These are but a few examples...

 

I see no signs that this will improve and in fact I think it will just become worse. I am not optimistic about the future. The government is simply unwilling to provide the amount of environmental protection that is required in this province. If I can hear, smell or see an oil well or gas plant while I'm fishing a cold-water river river it's likely too close.

[Ricinus]

The government is simply unwilling to provide the amount of environmental protection that is required in this province.

 

That is the major problem. It's nice to blame Big Oil, but a large percentage of the fault lies with our government for lax rules and regulations.

 

 

 

Mike