fish4trout Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Do you have a link to these cases, I've never heard that before. Mike I dont have a link, but if you read the book "bear attacks their causes and avoidances" you will read about plenty of instances where problem bears repeatedly come back to camp and occasionally even follow people as they are trying to get out of camp. Obviously this is worst case scenario and 99% of the time you can spook them away with bear bangers or a warning shot. The 1% of habituated problem bears is why I carry my bear gun. The one other problem nobody has mentioned with bear spray is its effectiveness in the wind. Clearly everybody here knows about how windy it can be when fishing southern creeks. Since most bears will take off when they smell you, what happens when you come around a corner downwind of a bear and it does not smell you at all or hear you because of the good old southern AB winds. You are downwind....how do you plan on shooting bear spray into the wind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I dont have a link, but if you read the book "bear attacks their causes and avoidances" you will read about plenty of instances where problem bears repeatedly come back to camp and occasionally even follow people as they are trying to get out of camp. Obviously this is worst case scenario and 99% of the time you can spook them away with bear bangers or a warning shot. The 1% of habituated problem bears is why I carry my bear gun. Outside of the parks that's what tent shotguns are for, habituated bears, they will usually permanently disappear around the third training session. First 2 use rock salt. A bear can hit admirable speeds with his ass loaded up with salt from 10 yds and it's a lesson that makes a deep impression on most persistent bears . In the Parks I seen 1/2" steel ball bearings from wrist slingshots used with success. The one other problem nobody has mentioned with bear spray is its effectiveness in the wind. Clearly everybody here knows about how windy it can be when fishing southern creeks. Since most bears will take off when they smell you, what happens when you come around a corner downwind of a bear and it does not smell you at all or hear you because of the good old southern AB winds. You are downwind....how do you plan on shooting bear spray into the wind? I look at it this way, pepper spray is a close-in last line of last defense. I'm not deployin' it when the bear is 30 yds away or even 30 ft. Even with a gun I ain't shooting a bear at 30 yds and a bear's charge can be all bluff to 10-15 ft or less and at that point I really don't care what way the wind is blowin', I'm gettin' that bear square in the face somehow. If the winds in my face the bear's gonna hafta get closer and my eyes are gonna water. Plus the fact that if the wind is blowin' that damn hard that pepper spray's ineffective at 3-5 ft, I likely quit fishin' long before. Of course this is all conjecture, I've never had to face a close-in pissed bear and I have no idea if my feet have the courage to hang around to find out for sure. Did kick one in the nads when his head was inside a sweetfeed bag though, never saw him again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironfly Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I've tested a can of bear spray that sat in a shed all winter in Yellowknife and it worked like new, once it was thawed. In sub-zero temperatures the pressure goes down and the range drops. I didn't test enough to find out at what tempuature it becomes ineffective, but most of us don't spend much time in the backcountry in the winter, and those that do can take comfort that bears, at least, aren't much of a threat at that time. Not that they are at any other time. I'm not scared of sharks, and I'm not scared of bears. I am, however, scared of car accidents. Weird, eh? It sprays into a stiff headwind pretty good actually. I know, it sounds like a good way to get nominated for a Darwin award, but there was no way I was trusting my family's safety to an unknown. I had a friend stand back and observe how far it reached, while I closed my eyes, held my breath and ran at a right angle. The reason it still shoots out well is because the spray has terrible aerodynamics, but high propulsion. I'm no physics expert, but I can draw an analogy to archery. When hunting birds, some people use a Flu-flu arrow, which is fletched much more heavily than a standard arrow. They usually have 6 flights rather than 3, and the feathers are left full height, so there's at least 10 times as much drag. Out to about 25 yards there is no difference in tragectory or velocity that the human eye can see, then all of a sudden it's like someone put on the brakes; it's amazing how fast they drop off! I hope that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveJensen Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Here's a different perspective. Given the rate of anything actually ever happening between bears and humans, how ridiculously low % that truly is, and given what I now know about ticks and Lyme disease, I'd encourage everyone to spend far more time learning about ticks and Lyme disease and taking steps to prevent it. I got it sharing a hotel room with people with dogs after being on the water for a few days - got a tick on me while sleeping. AJ had one in her bely and 2 other tcks crawling on her in one day, though she luckily and thankfully avoided Lyme. With 20,000 cases in the US each year and having had first hand experience at how it can impact you, I would strongly suggest that the likelihood of Lyme infection and lasting long term impacts of it are FAR more likely than the fear mongering realities of any bear incident. Ticks & Lyme are at least as far north as Rocky Mtn House, having had quite an infestation in the Caroline area last year. And given the lingering tingles and twitches from my experience with it last spring, which is mild compared to most cases, it's something that can be avoided. With what Kathryn Maroun (What A Catch tv show) is going through with Lyme and what I've gone through, and what I've been told about from 3 other people I know, it's something to spend more time educating yourselves about than worrying about being the one angler every 10 yrs to get mauled by a bear, no offense to them or their families - just offering perspective. Sorry for the hi-jack, though this thread's been off on other tangents already. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverDoctor Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Here's a different perspective. Given the rate of anything actually ever happening between bears and humans, how ridiculously low % that truly is, and given what I now know about ticks and Lyme disease, I'd encourage everyone to spend far more time learning about ticks and Lyme disease and taking steps to prevent it. I got it sharing a hotel room with people with dogs after being on the water for a few days - got a tick on me while sleeping. AJ had one in her bely and 2 other tcks crawling on her in one day, though she luckily and thankfully avoided Lyme. With 20,000 cases in the US each year and having had first hand experience at how it can impact you, I would strongly suggest that the likelihood of Lyme infection and lasting long term impacts of it are FAR more likely than the fear mongering realities of any bear incident. Ticks & Lyme are at least as far north as Rocky Mtn House, having had quite an infestation in the Caroline area last year. And given the lingering tingles and twitches from my experience with it last spring, which is mild compared to most cases, it's something that can be avoided. With what Kathryn Maroun (What A Catch tv show) is going through with Lyme and what I've gone through, and what I've been told about from 3 other people I know, it's something to spend more time educating yourselves about than worrying about being the one angler every 10 yrs to get mauled by a bear, no offense to them or their families - just offering perspective. Sorry for the hi-jack, though this thread's been off on other tangents already. Cheers Super post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricinus Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Bears, cougars, lyme disease, it's wonder anyone makes out out alive- with or without cake. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grinr Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Taco, easy there big guy this feller has 8 posts 4 of which he is trying to "prove" he's the tough guy. He obviously has not spent a lot of time in the woods like you or I have. Bears are not something to be afraid of or something to be gunning down if they look at you or your kids funny. "I" have something to prove??WOW!!..??? I merely stated that a .454 is perty damn good bear medicine. It would appear to me that the only posters here suffering from lil big man syndrome that feel compelled to prove themselves to the forum would be Hawghumpa and Tacobreath? For instance,Hawg,in his infinite wisdom recommends waiting until a charging grizzly is within 10' before squirting off his load? Man,that takes some REAL stones!!No doubt even Chuck Norris himself would think twice of messing with a man of such intestinal fortitude?:rolleyes:Please,do tell,where can I purchase some of this miraculous,instant brick wall Death Ray bear spray that stops 800lb freight trains in their tracks?? ...and the Taco...what can I say there but just simply "WOW!" ??Judging by his overawhelming compulsion to overcompensate for obvious shortcomings,one can only assume that his "life partner" must be extremely frustrated?Without knowing a single thing about me or my 35+ years of extensive hunting,angling,trapping and guiding experience,he somehow is able to ascertain that he's melted more barrels than I've owned??A wee bit presumptuous perhaps?He buys gunpowder by the keg and prints sub MOA groups all day.WOW!! No doubt the entire forum and even Jack O'Connor himself would probably be impressed........I'm not. Amazingly,despite his no doubt encyclopedic-like knowledge in regards to woodsmanship,hunting,ballistics,optics,and all things firearms,Taco still falls apart at the mere sight of a trophy head and by his own admission can't seem to hit the south end of a north bound moose?Ya know,it really is a shame that trophy bucks and bulls generally don't stand still while one micro-adjusts one's bench vise,lol. Whatever....I digress.I have no desire to get into a pissing match with you over rifles since I honestly find centerfire rifle hunting somewhat akin to childsplay,and i have pretty much given up the centerfires in favor of the far more challenging pursuits of hunting big game with bows and traditional muzzleloaders over the last 2 decades.That's ok though,everybody has to start somewhere,as did I.There's no shame I'm clinging to your training wheels until you are confident in your ability to routinely take trophies,maybe then you'll be ready to come out and play with the big boys and get up close and personal to your quarry? 1500 days in the big bad bear woods??Good for you son...you just keep at'er in in and in no time,say 5-10 years tops(?) you'll have just about half as many days afield as I do. As for the rest of you self proclaimed bear experts,most of whom admit that they've only had a small handful of non-threatening bear encounters over 20 years give or take,might i suggest you visit any one of several Alaskan hunting forums where some of the world's REAL expert bear guides frequent and suggest to them how silly and paranoid they are backing up their clients with hard hitting elephant stopping calibers when all they really need is a $30 can of pepper spray that stops charging grizzlies in their tracks at 10 ft.,ROFLMAO!!Better yet,spend a few seasons guiding bowhunters to hunt cute and fuzzy,harmless lil black bears.Come back and talk to me after you get a few years of guiding under your belt where you've spent 6 months of each year maintaining 20+ bait sites solo,been treed by more than a few ornery blackies,been challenged and chased away from bait sites by overly aggressive bruins,or sat in a tree until dark thirty on many occasions with up to 1/2 dozen jaw popping,woofing,hungry bears milling around and nothing but a pointy stick on a string and a flashlight to defend yourself on the half hour hike in the dark back to your truck......yea...talk to me then.If there's one thing I learned from my years of bear guiding,it's that the only thing predictable about bears is that they are unpredictable. Yes Tacofarts and Hawgbreath,it's now quite obvious to me that I couldn't possibly have nearly the amount of outdoors experience as you two bonafide Jeremiah Johnsons,what with my lowly little 8 forum posts and all.My mistake was failing to acknowledge the universal Internet truth that equates forum post counts directly to one's level of expertise.With your combined 7000+ posts between you,no doubt there isn't any possibility that I could be anywhere near as knowledgeable as you two Internet Einsteins....my only question is who is your satellite communications provider,because with so many posts combined with such a vast wealth of outdoor experience,surely you must be simulcasting live from the field,yes?I mean,how else would it be possible for you to gain so much experience while at the same time asserting your high level of expertise to the cyber world so frequently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Oops, I seem to have irritated a bogtrotter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I'm gonna blame it on these flu meds I'm on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Where's BBT's cake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricinus Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Tacofarts??, Here we thought it was the cattle.. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Hey Grinr... better try guidin' for bears in the Yukon. Guides aren't allowed to carry a backup rifle while with a client. And no garbage can setups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grinr Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Hey Grinr... better try guidin' for bears in the Yukon. Guides aren't allowed to carry a backup rifle while with a client. And no garbage can setups. OMFG REALLY!!! WOW!!! Where I come from,it's illegal to angle for salmon by any method other than flyfishing.....so what? How does either of these useless tidbits have any relevance to this topic? Btw,just for the record,I find your sig line and total lack of respect for what IMHO is the most beautiful of all the trouts(even if it is actually a char) to be both immature and irresponsible.That said,to quote yourself....please don't fish around me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Yeah I got those in 5 trips, not bad for a stream with a 2 fish limit, killed every one of those finny vermin I sunk a hook into, shootin to kill over 200 next yr BTW those Yukon bears were grizzlies and no shots allowed from over 40 yds.. Oh! and no big old trees to climb either, just 10' tall willows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGK Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 When was that rule in effect? Definitely not the case today... Early 70's, no idea about today. Nothing will straighten out your short and curly's like a grizzly shot through both shoulders from inside of 40 yds by a guy you've known 4 days. I don't need be in on any more grizzly kills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grinr Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Yeah I got those in 5 trips, not bad for a stream with a 2 fish limit, killed every one of those finny vermin I sunk a hook into, shootin to kill over 200 next yr Might want to be careful there Burrito...do you have any idea how many scumbag poachers have been busted in this modern inet era due to investigations initiated onto themselves thanks to their own stupidity and insatiable need to validate themselves??Might also want to review Forum Rule #9? That said,while my first reaction was to call you out as an embarrassment to the angling community and all around douche,the truth is,I treat invasive,predatory,overprotected smallmouth bass with the same disdain on my beloved native brookie and Atlantic salmon streams,enthusiastically annihilating every single one of the spiny ********* that I can sink a hook into,therefore......Eeeeek.....I guess in that manner at least were not all that much unalike? :zip it: Being a relatively new Albertan,can someone please help me understand why here in the west....or Alberta in particular....there seems to be such a hate on for brookies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricinus Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Grinr, In a nut shell, Brookies are an introduced species that out compete with the native cutthroats. In some streams generous catch limits have been introduced to try and control them. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 http://flyfishcalgary.com/board/index.php?...c=15376&hl= Stewardship Licence Pilot Project Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grinr Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 .....nobody likes invasives threatening natives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastBoyScout Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Tacofarts and hawgsbreath now thats funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbowtrout Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Might want to be careful there Burrito...do you have any idea how many scumbag poachers have been busted in this modern inet era due to investigations initiated onto themselves thanks to their own stupidity and insatiable need to validate themselves??Might also want to review Forum Rule #9? That said,while my first reaction was to call you out as an embarrassment to the angling community and all around douche,the truth is,I treat invasive,predatory,overprotected smallmouth bass with the same disdain on my beloved native brookie and Atlantic salmon streams,enthusiastically annihilating every single one of the spiny ********* that I can sink a hook into,therefore......Eeeeek.....I guess in that manner at least were not all that much unalike? :zip it: Being a relatively new Albertan,can someone please help me understand why here in the west....or Alberta in particular....there seems to be such a hate on for brookies? 1, 2, 3, 5, 6 and 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbowtrout Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Im liking this thread but the name calling must stop or we'll have to shut er down. Also some big scary 3 day bans could be handed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I'd ask for cake but we'd probably just get another cake recipe......friggin' city boys.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricinus Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Awww, the cake would just make you fart. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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