The Big One

[EdB]

Here's my problem, all i seem to catch lately is small trout 7-8 inch's. I allways thought that if there are small ones there, there should be big ones as well. Then Tollman said at the demo that small fish and big fish are not at the same place because the big ones will eat them.

 

So what am i doing wrong? Is it a matter of reading the water as to where the big ones should be or is it my fly? Different size or something? I'm fishing in spots where i think that there should be big ones but still only catch little ones.

 

I hear you guys talking about your 19-20 inchers and i want to poke my eyes out. Would give a testie for one that big these days. I have caught lots of big fish in the past but i think i'm doing something wrong.

 

Any suggestions or advise. I need a jedi master to show me how to use the force. matbe need to go out with some of you real experienced guys for a trip and watch how you do it.

 

Thank's

Ed

[tgo]

I used to catch lots of small fish and very few large fish at one time too, I bet most fisherman have at one time or another. I still don't catch as large or as many trout as I'd like and probably never will. If you are anything like I was, you're probably catching small trout because they are easier to catch, are more likely to take a dry fly, and are more numerous ( at least in the NW). It's harder to trick a large trout than a small trout. I've found this especially true when it comes to nymphing. I've caught many small trout on bad drifts, but to trick a larger trout you need to get the nymph down deep and mend your line so your flyline and indicator aren't dragging your fly faster than the current of the stream. You want a natural, "dead-drift" within inches of the bottom, if not bouncing off it. Don't hesitate to move around too, after you've thoroughly dredged the bottom of water that LOOKS like it would hold a fish. I've caught many small trout in less than prime lies, but larger trout an dominate a prime lie and protect its territroy from smaller trout. The best lies I've found are where there is a convergence of fast and slow water, a dropoff, and slow choppy stretch, a nice riffle, where a feeding trout can have the benefit of faster water bringing in food, but where they can also expend less energy.

 

In terms of flies, I usually fish a double nymph rig with whatever I think best imitates the current hatches. Check the hatch chart for the Bow, I think its on this site. Good all around nymphs are hare's ears, gold-ribbed hare's ear, pheasant tails, evil weevils, prince nymphs, copper johns, caddis pupas, various caddis larva nymphs etc. The bottom fly is usually either a stonefly earlier in the season, and more recently a san juan worm. Add split and adjust indicator. You should have be hitting bottom but not constantly snagging, it takes getting used to.

 

Oh yeah, fish bigass streamers close to the bottom on a sink tip line. The biggest of trout are usually caught on streamers, but I'm sure someone on this board will prove me wrong.

[Guest bigbadbrent]

There are simply NOT as many big trout, as there are small...I've had a 'pool' on the bow (you can ask chad, chidders on the forum, he witnessed me do it) where i hooked into 4 or 5 big guys, and another 4 or 5 little cookie cutters...

 

Big browns have been scientifically proven to feed more at night...

 

Lot of luck, timing, and placement all go into one to hit the big one. You might hit a small one first, and it scares off the big one with its fight..

 

just keep fishing

[OneMoreLastCast]

To get into more big fish, you need to learn how fish feed.

Thru-out the season, and thru-out the day, fish move constantly dependant on the food they are eating. As you've probably read or heard, a fish's diet changes from sun up to sun up. Yes I said sun up, not sun down to make it clear that you have to base it on a 24 hour cycle.

 

Different seasons also cause the fish to feed in different places than other times of the year. So where you might find a big fish in May, you may not find it in September.

 

It would be tough to describe it in writing of course. It is something that is better explained on the water as different sections and different parts of a river might need a visual, in order to assess where the fish are most likely holding.

 

For starters, I can discuss some basics that would apply to this time of year.

 

In the morning, you will most likely want to be fishing the really slow water close to shore. As the water warms up, start to fish the tail outs with some faster water.

 

One good tip for bigger fish is that the big guys will always win the battle for the prime feeding lies. So look for what you think is the best place for a fish to get the food, a.) First and b.) Easiest. When you find this combination, you will find the bigger fish.

 

As the water warms up later in the day, look for the fish to be holding in the seams closer to the heads of runs. This is where the insects that are migrating to "Hatch" will be getting pushed into a nice smorg for the fish to feed on them. Most of the time, the higher up the seam, the bigger the fish will get. Don't get greedy though and skip right to the top because the fish move up the river to get to these spots, so if you jump to the top, you may keep the fish from getting to their feeding zones.

 

Work your way up the runs from the bottom to the top and if all works out and you didn't jump the gun, you should get into some nice fish.

 

A few more tips....

 

If you work a stretch of nice looking water, (ie- long deep run), and only get the occassional strike, move on to different water.

 

Always try to work upstream obviously. I usually park and walk way downstream and then fish up.

 

If you catch, or hook a big fish from a "Prime" feeding spot, sit down and wait a bit or move downstream and work back up to the spot. These spots are used primarily for feeding only, so as soon as one fish is removed and then needs to recover, another big fish will move into the spot because it is obviously a good spot to feed.

 

Finally and most important is to be patient and experiment. Take time to get insect samples, watch the water, experiment, etc. Use advice you get, but don't be afraid to go against the norm. Remember how many people fish the same runs with the same patterns, so trying something different can sometimes yield great results.

 

Oh yeah....Big fish are less likely to eat an adult insect. The little guys will, but the big fish spend most of their time feeding on the Nymphs/Larva, Pupas, cripples and emergers. Learn your bugs and you'll catch more big fish.

[Hawgstoppah]

One good tip for bigger fish is that the big guys will always win the battle for the prime feeding lies. So look for what you think is the best place for a fish to get the food, a.) First and b.) Easiest. When you find this combination, you will find the bigger fish.

 

If you work a stretch of nice looking water, (ie- long deep run), and only get the occassional strike, move on to different water.

 

Finally and most important is to be patient and experiment. Take time to get insect samples, watch the water, experiment, etc. Use advice you get, but don't be afraid to go against the norm. Remember how many people fish the same runs with the same patterns, so trying something different can sometimes yield great results.

 

Oh yeah....Big fish are less likely to eat an adult insect. The little guys will, but the big fish spend most of their time feeding on the Nymphs/Larva, Pupas, cripples and emergers. Learn your bugs and you'll catch more big fish.

 

Great write up there MTB ... I highlighted the things I used for that 25 inch 'bow last week. Hey MTB... me and tool are delayed on the steelie trip till after thanksgiving any chance of you going then?

[OneMoreLastCast]

Once I get my schedule for the fall, I'll know for sure and let you know. The good news for you guys is that I heard that the Steelhead are late this year, so it shouldn't be too bad then.

 

 

That big boy you caught that day was in the same place as the big one that Max snapped off, right at the very head of the pool in the spot where they get the food first. Proving my theory on the big ones getting the spots where they get first shot at the food.

 

My biggest fish are usually caught in less than two feet of water at this time of year in the late afternoon/early evening.

 

I love it when someone I'm fishing with says that I'm so lucky because I catch the bigger fish. If you know where to look for them, you will catch them right. I would have liked to have caught one of those really big "Imaginary" pike that day, but no luck.

[OneMoreLastCast]

Oh yeah....it doesn't hurt to have one of my "Eatmore Caddis Pupa" on as well, eh Hawgstoppah?

[toolman]

We intentionally delayed our Steelhead trip by a couple of weeks to wait for the prime run to come in.

You've got to try and join us Brett. You will regret it if you don't, as we are gonna slam a ton of chrome.

My goals for the trip, is to catch them on the dry surface swing, wet swing, but I especailly want to sneak up on one and High Stick him from 10' away. Are we allowed to fish at night? That would be sweet!

I may even hire a Chopper to fly us in deep for a little adventure too.

 

 

In response to the original posters question. My simple answer is, find a prime feeding lie and show up at chow time. Let the big trout move in, (they are sometimes late, but when they show up the little fishies run for cover) allow them to start to feed and get comfortable. They will move in very close to shore if you let them, so stay on the bank out of sight and then you will be in a position to have a chance at big trout. It's a simple plan really. That's why I enjoy fishing with MTB and Hawgstoppah, they are patient, observant and know the game well. Not to mention their crazy fishing skills also, which obviously helps.

When winter hits, the trout will be stacked up together, so find the prime winter lies and fish the tail outs really deep, then it's as easy as fishing at a Trout pond. Well sorta...

[chidders]

MTB - Very informative. I had the same concerns Ed had a month back, just not hooking into any big fish. I tried to concentrate on perfection of my rig (perfect knots, smaller line, etc.) and it made a bit of difference. Mind you the other day a threw a dry on a nymphing leader because that's all i had with me and caught one of my biggest fish yet.

 

Great Read Thanks!

[kungfool]

To get into more big fish, you need to learn how fish feed.

Thru-out the season, and thru-out the day, fish move constantly dependant on the food they are eating. As you've probably read or heard, a fish's diet changes from sun up to sun up. Yes I said sun up, not sun down to make it clear that you have to base it on a 24 hour cycle.

 

Different seasons also cause the fish to feed in different places than other times of the year. So where you might find a big fish in May, you may not find it in September.

 

It would be tough to describe it in writing of course. It is something that is better explained on the water as different sections and different parts of a river might need a visual, in order to assess where the fish are most likely holding.

 

For starters, I can discuss some basics that would apply to this time of year.

 

In the morning, you will most likely want to be fishing the really slow water close to shore. As the water warms up, start to fish the tail outs with some faster water.

 

One good tip for bigger fish is that the big guys will always win the battle for the prime feeding lies. So look for what you think is the best place for a fish to get the food, a.) First and b.) Easiest. When you find this combination, you will find the bigger fish.

 

As the water warms up later in the day, look for the fish to be holding in the seams closer to the heads of runs. This is where the insects that are migrating to "Hatch" will be getting pushed into a nice smorg for the fish to feed on them. Most of the time, the higher up the seam, the bigger the fish will get. Don't get greedy though and skip right to the top because the fish move up the river to get to these spots, so if you jump to the top, you may keep the fish from getting to their feeding zones.

 

Work your way up the runs from the bottom to the top and if all works out and you didn't jump the gun, you should get into some nice fish.

 

A few more tips....

 

If you work a stretch of nice looking water, (ie- long deep run), and only get the occassional strike, move on to different water.

 

Always try to work upstream obviously. I usually park and walk way downstream and then fish up.

 

If you catch, or hook a big fish from a "Prime" feeding spot, sit down and wait a bit or move downstream and work back up to the spot. These spots are used primarily for feeding only, so as soon as one fish is removed and then needs to recover, another big fish will move into the spot because it is obviously a good spot to feed.

 

Finally and most important is to be patient and experiment. Take time to get insect samples, watch the water, experiment, etc. Use advice you get, but don't be afraid to go against the norm. Remember how many people fish the same runs with the same patterns, so trying something different can sometimes yield great results.

 

Oh yeah....Big fish are less likely to eat an adult insect. The little guys will, but the big fish spend most of their time feeding on the Nymphs/Larva, Pupas, cripples and emergers. Learn your bugs and you'll catch more big fish.

 

Some very practical and helpful advice MTB! You are definetly one of the best reasons for any fly fisher to join this forum and you should give yourself a big pat on the back.

 

Your wisdom is a great asset to all of us and your willingness to share it with others tells me you have a very unique and desirable character (I don't mean that in a gay way ).

 

Thanks!

[reevesr1]

Great advice as always guys.

Ed,

I have been fortunate enough to fish with MTB on numerous occasions, and Toolman a couple of times (throw Maxwell in as well). I can't really tell you why yet because my knowledge is not well formed enough, but while I don't catch a lot of fish yet, recently I have caught very few under 14-15". I am certainly no expert at reading the bow, or any other river for that matter, but I have sucked in enough information to put myself in a position to hook (though not necessarily land) many nice fish. I'm still looking for that first 2 footer on the bow, but it is only a matter of time.

 

Anyway, my point is listen to these guys. They know of what they speak.

 

Though I hesitate to bestow wisdom upon MTB, but Kevin is a nicer guy than I am!

[SilverDoctor]

We intentionally delayed our Steelhead trip by a couple of weeks to wait for the prime run to come in.

 

Teh prime runs should be in in about 3.5 to 3 weeks. My friend Nick usually emails me.

[Hawgstoppah]

Brett is that what you all that thing, the "eatmore"??? LOL

 

I like it!!!

 

Can't wait for the steelies... gonna bust some bad boys out there I can feel it!

[EdB]

Thanks for the tips all. I need to get out with a few of you guys to soak it all up............MTB,TOOLMAN,HAWG ahem...not to mention any names.

[OneMoreLastCast]

Brett is that what you all that thing, the "eatmore"??? LOL

 

I like it!!!

 

Oh yeah, you were probably off driving truck somewhere when I made that post. I tried that new pattern and it worked, well...not too bad, so I thought I should name it. I sat down on the bank to rest my tired arm and was eating an "Eatmore" candy bar when it came to me...

 

TroutSlayer, I can't commit to anything right now, but if I get a chance, I'll see if I can get out for an evening some time.

[Hawgstoppah]

If I don't gotta work saturday... anyone up for a fish? Lower Bow... damsel nymphs, and some fun?

[EdB]

Oh yeah, you were probably off driving truck somewhere when I made that post. I tried that new pattern and it worked, well...not too bad, so I thought I should name it. I sat down on the bank to rest my tired arm and was eating an "Eatmore" candy bar when it came to me...

 

TroutSlayer, I can't commit to anything right now, but if I get a chance, I'll see if I can get out for an evening some time.

 

Hey sorry MTB. i put that other post in about the trip b4 i read this one. So thanks man that would be great to do sometime. I'm allways up for a little fishin

Ed

[Brookie]

Taking all possible slack out of the line while nymphing is extremely important IMO. Big fish can spit a nymph out in a microsecond. You must mend the line immediately after casting then strip all slack out as quickly. It takes line control to catch larger trout. It's a delicate balance between a natural drift and a relatively tight line.

[reevesr1]

Taking all possible slack out of the line while nymphing is extremely important IMO. Big fish can spit a nymph out in a microsecond. You must mend the line immediately after casting then strip all slack out as quickly. It takes line control to catch larger trout. It's a delicate balance between a natural drift and a relatively tight line.

 

I cannot vouch for the validity of the following statement, but I did read it in a nymphing book....

 

The process of a trout taking in food from bottom and spitting it out is about 2 seconds. It is a physiological limit. That is the amount of time it takes for the fish to complete the process of bringing it in, and then pushing the water back out. The trout knows it's not food instantly, but cannot reject it until the water cycle completes.

 

But a lot has to happen in that two seconds. The fish is moving very little in most cases, and not a strike in the traditional sense. That "strike" has to travel up your leader to whatever method you are using to indicate, you have to see or feel that movement, which can be very, very small, and then set the hook. So regardless of how long the spit out actually takes, Brookie is absolutely correct- slack control is extremely important.

[EdB]

today i had them on but then lost em. Some on the jump and others seemed to to just shake it out. So i was feelin the takes but like the wife says I GOT NO FINISH.