Fracking - Some Info For Ya'

[DonAndersen]

Folks,

 

Wells have been fraced in Alberta since about the 1930's or so, But things are changing with horizontal drills, multiple completions on the same pad and shallow shale wells.

 

Here is an interesting read. Talks about the EPA Wyoming study. I'd first through t that the frac down there was cold bed methane @ very shallow depths. Such is not the case.

 

At any rate, Heavy Duty Fracing is now in Alberta.

 

regards,

 

Don

 

 

http://thetyee.ca/News/2011/12/19/Fracking-Contamination/

[Pipes]

Some info. Not necessarily accurate info. I've read the exact EPA report. I'm involved more than I care on the issue. Rest assured we are only getting one side of the issue. as usual it is the uneducated side.

Stunning how a journalist can become an expert in chemistry.

 

And for the accurate record, this is technically a drilling and cementing issue. Setting surface casing above an aquifer?

[Guest Sundancefisher]

Folks,

 

Wells have been fraced in Alberta since about the 1930's or so, But things are changing with horizontal drills, multiple completions on the same pad and shallow shale wells.

 

Here is an interesting read. Talks about the EPA Wyoming study. I'd first through t that the frac down there was cold bed methane @ very shallow depths. Such is not the case.

 

At any rate, Heavy Duty Fracing is now in Alberta.

 

regards,

 

Don

 

 

http://thetyee.ca/News/2011/12/19/Fracking-Contamination/

 

Best ask those of us on the forum about the facts to get it from fellow outdoorsmen than agenda focused media or lobby groups.

 

For instance...name me one "shallow well" that is being fraced in Alberta that is anywheres near an aquifer and that is also not fully cased to protect ground water. Our wells target tight sands in the Cardium and Viking Formation and getting into the deeper Mannville and Duvernay and Muskwa formations. These are typically 1500 meters to 3500 meters. The article you quoted is referring to 300 meter wells. Mixing apples with oranges in these studies shows a lack of proper ethical reporting that gets fed to unsuspecting people that are ignorant to the facts and try to rely on someone saying they are an expert. It is sad that we need to be upset that our industry is focusing on facts and common sense in the public domain and ignoring spending wasted money on proving the negative hype wrong.

 

There are hundreds of thousands of wells that have been fraced in Alberta. Our regulations in Alberta are very strict...far more so than in the US. Our wells information is all 100% open and public versus the US that is usually private and confidential. This is such a bad article...

 

When is comes to Alberta...don't spread garbage misleading information. Quoting a crappy article that tries to compare Alberta with the US onshore and US offshore is laughable and a classic example of this crap propagating in cyberspace.

 

Cheers

 

Sun

[DonAndersen]

Sun,

 

 

 

Have a fine Xmas,

 

Don

[Pipes]

Sun,

 

Thanks for elaborating and giving good information. I was too lazy. Mostly for the fact, that for the past 2 years I have been fighting this battle about the evils of "fracking". Getting tired of presenting SCIENCE and then having the comeback from someone who watched Gasland.

 

It's just complete BS that people spread garbage like this. It's ok to lobby without educating themselves. Surprise Surprise.

[DonAndersen]

Pipes & Sun,

 

Have a fine Xmas,

 

 

 

 

Don

[ironfly]

The journalist makes no claim to being an expert in chemistry. However, the U of A geochemist who is quoted throughout the article, probably qualifies. And they're not talking only about shallow wells; some of the wells cited in the article were 8000 feet (almost 2500 meters) deep. There's no shortage of examples of science being able to "prove" both sides of an argument simultaneously. Consider the source.

[Pipes]

I guess my mistake is continually to get frustrated by journalist who don't want to do their homework and present a fair case.

The U of A geochemist comments were only based on his opinion of reading the EPA report. He was not involved in the study.

The message of the entire article is that Contamination will get worse in Alberta and his justification is based on the EPA study of the Pavillion study in Wyoming. First of all, the EPA report does not state wells drilled over 8000 feet. The author suggested wells in BC's Montney play are over 8000 feet. No study has been done.

That's my problem. The EPA study is entirely different than the operations, formations and regulations we have to deal with.

Soooooo, I get pissed when I hear, read or witness people talking about the evils of 'fracking' without knowing anything about it. We then get a mass population of gullible people to believe this junk that the article and many others spew.

This impacts many, many of Albertans credible and hard work. Mine included.

Fact is, these long horizontal tight shale plays and 'fracking' provide a key role in cost effective method of extracting gas for power generation. Power generation that is needed here and abroad. Power generation that serves as a much more environmentally responsible alternative to the coal we burn here.

 

Here's the EPA report in discussion:

 

http://www.epa.gov/region8/superfund/wy/pavillion/index.html

 

Oh and Merry Christmas Don.

[Guest Sundancefisher]

I guess my mistake is continually to get frustrated by journalist who don't want to do their homework and present a fair case.

The U of A geochemist comments were only based on his opinion of reading the EPA report. He was not involved in the study.

The message of the entire article is that Contamination will get worse in Alberta and his justification is based on the EPA study of the Pavillion study in Wyoming. First of all, the EPA report does not state wells drilled over 8000 feet. The author suggested wells in BC's Montney play are over 8000 feet. No study has been done.

That's my problem. The EPA study is entirely different than the operations, formations and regulations we have to deal with.

Soooooo, I get pissed when I hear, read or witness people talking about the evils of 'fracking' without knowing anything about it. We then get a mass population of gullible people to believe this junk that the article and many others spew.

This impacts many, many of Albertans credible and hard work. Mine included.

Fact is, these long horizontal tight shale plays and 'fracking' provide a key role in cost effective method of extracting gas for power generation. Power generation that is needed here and abroad. Power generation that serves as a much more environmentally responsible alternative to the coal we burn here.

 

Here's the EPA report in discussion:

 

http://www.epa.gov/region8/superfund/wy/pavillion/index.html

 

Oh and Merry Christmas Don.

 

So true...great post.

 

Your average person like Don that has no experience in oil and gas believes what they read. They have an impression that the ground explodes when fraced and fluid leaks everywhere and people are jumping for joy on a great frac.

 

In fact fracs need to be only as small as possible to do the job. You can't frac rock outside the narrow...sometimes 4 meters of rock or less because you lose all your value cause these fracs cost a lot. You can't frac a well that won't contain the frac because you waste your time and money.

 

Shallow 300 m wells in the US...yes...those can be a problem. Our wells in Canada...are all fine. If there was a huge problem or even a significant problem...all the free, public access data would prove it. There is none...so nothing to write about...so you try and say...but...but...but...a bad study in the US says fracing is a big bad beast.

 

LOL...if it was not so sad...this whole discussion would be funny. Don...it is your tax dollars...and your higher price fluid...and your reduced return on investment in your RRSP's that pays to counter the crap...that is the sad part of the story.

 

Sun

 

P.S. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you also Don. May your new year be full of jumping trout and whispering scenic brooks!

 

[Taco]

Your average person like Don that has no experience in oil and gas believes what they read.

[snuffy]

Kinda like you became the world's pre-eminent climatologist while post-docing at Fox News?

 

So true...great post.

 

Your average person like Don that has no experience in oil and gas believes what they read. They have an impression that the ground explodes when fraced and fluid leaks everywhere and people are jumping for joy on a great frac.

 

In fact fracs need to be only as small as possible to do the job. You can't frac rock outside the narrow...sometimes 4 meters of rock or less because you lose all your value cause these fracs cost a lot. You can't frac a well that won't contain the frac because you waste your time and money.

 

Shallow 300 m wells in the US...yes...those can be a problem. Our wells in Canada...are all fine. If there was a huge problem or even a significant problem...all the free, public access data would prove it. There is none...so nothing to write about...so you try and say...but...but...but...a bad study in the US says fracing is a big bad beast.

 

LOL...if it was not so sad...this whole discussion would be funny. Don...it is your tax dollars...and your higher price fluid...and your reduced return on investment in your RRSP's that pays to counter the crap...that is the sad part of the story.

 

Sun

 

P.S. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you also Don. May your new year be full of jumping trout and whispering scenic brooks!

 

[bigbowtrout]

I think everyone needs to just Frac-off and enjoy the holidays.

[DonAndersen]

Sundance,

 

Oops is kinda right. Worked in oil/gas production from the time I was eleven. Was working shift @ 14. Guess after 45 years, I figure the ground still explodes which has gotta be the stupidest thing you said all year and boy have you piled up a sack full earlier.

 

Fracs will leak as will well heads, surface casings, packers and production casings. Stuff happens and for you to deny it tells the rest of us your experience

levels.

 

To deny the leaks does reflect on the credibility of the industry. Honesty counts for something.

 

And an BBT says

 

frac off,

 

 

Don

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Taco]

Sundance,

 

Oops is kinda right. Worked in oil/gas production from the time I was eleven. Was working shift @ 14. Guess after 45 years, I figure the ground still explodes which has gotta be the stupidest thing you said all year and boy have you piled up a sack full earlier.

 

Fracs will leak as will well heads, surface casings, packers and production casings. Stuff happens and for you to deny it tells the rest of us your experience

levels.

 

To deny the leaks does reflect on the credibility of the industry. Honesty counts for something.

 

And an BBT says

 

frac off,

 

 

Don

 

 

Yo Sundance!!

 

Don't feel bad, he can be even blunter in person.

 

[Guest Sundancefisher]

Yo Sundance!!

 

Don't feel bad, he can be even blunter in person.

 

LOL

 

When we see stuff spouted as fact regardless of which side you vacillate on...it needs response. As mentioned...while Don speaks like he knows...the fact is the article was bogus and his representation of it was suspect.

 

The fact is...many people don't have any basic in fact as to what happens in the oil industry...but they sure like driving.

 

LOL

 

Frac off...reminds me of the newest Battlestar Galactica series. It was well done...

[bhurt]

Sundance,

 

ooops, the new BS series was cancelled and then they came out with a spin off called caprica which I also belive has been cancelled.

 

Frac off

 

Here is another from a diffrent show know what it is...

 

It about time I space you......

[Guest Sundancefisher]

Sundance,

 

ooops, the new BS series was cancelled and then they came out with a spin off called caprica which I also belive has been cancelled.

 

Frac off

 

Here is another from a diffrent show know what it is...

 

It about time I space you......

 

Caprica was pretty bad. I could not watch it. Still BG series started a new genre of older shows that are "updated" to feel more modern. Question is what is next. Flash Gordon...over done... MASH? We have seen to much of Iraq already. Laverne and Shirley set at Big Rock? Maybe be interesting...

[bhurt]

Sundance,

 

Flash Gordon was redone into a tv series that was airing on Space Channel, I think it has been canneled as it was the "YOUNG" Flash Gordon and was absoultly horrible.

 

Who remebers the TV series Young Indian Jones, another really bad series IMO

 

Oh and I will shot myself if they redo happy days with Henry Winkler as the father of the new Fonz, eeeeeehhhhhhh

 

Its really hard to watch alot of these old series as I grew up watching alot of the originals, only one that was half decent was BSG

 

Now back to the original post and Frac off, lol

[Guest Sundancefisher]

Sundance,

 

Flash Gordon was redone into a tv series that was airing on Space Channel, I think it has been canneled as it was the "YOUNG" Flash Gordon and was absoultly horrible.

 

Who remebers the TV series Young Indian Jones, another really bad series IMO

 

Oh and I will shot myself if they redo happy days with Henry Winkler as the father of the new Fonz, eeeeeehhhhhhh

 

Its really hard to watch alot of these old series as I grew up watching alot of the originals, only one that was half decent was BSG

 

Now back to the original post and Frac off, lol

 

The least they could do is bring back the "Greatest American Hero". That was a catchy tune.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlq0jM3NE74...feature=related

 

 

[bhurt]

I do wish they would bring back sledgehammer that tv show was hillirious.

 

[Guest Sundancefisher]

I do wish they would bring back sledgehammer that tv show was hillirious.

 

Dam..I forgot about that one. I did enjoy the frac out of that show. It was Funny with a capital F for sure.

[vhawk12]

Sundance,

 

Oops is kinda right. Worked in oil/gas production from the time I was eleven. Was working shift @ 14. Guess after 45 years, I figure the ground still explodes which has gotta be the stupidest thing you said all year and boy have you piled up a sack full earlier.

 

Fracs will leak as will well heads, surface casings, packers and production casings. Stuff happens and for you to deny it tells the rest of us your experience

levels.

 

To deny the leaks does reflect on the credibility of the industry. Honesty counts for something.

 

And an BBT says

 

frac off,

 

 

Don

 

Don,

 

Do you really think that the industry has not improved in terms of technology, safety and environmental awareness in the past 45 years? 45yrs ago, the industry still had the 'rape and pillage' attitude. Undoubtedly you have a lot of field experience, but that does not make you an engineer (working in the industry at 11 I assume you did not go to high school or university). It seems like you have a lot of time on your hands, so why don't you research the advances in completions technology over the last 45 years and give us a report. While you're at it, maybe list all the environmental regulations in place 45 years ago versus today, maybe include the effect on computers have had on technology in the industry. Also, I think there is a lot of confusion about wellbore completions, so what about casing requirements in Canada versus the US? Although it sounds mundane, I think that there have been quite a few changes in cementing techniques as well, including running wireline logs to assess cement competency.

 

I look forward reading what you find out.

 

 

 

 

[DonAndersen]

vhawk12,

 

Sure it's changed - had too. The flaring of 100's of millions of sour gas to recover 10's of bbls of condensate had to stop. The dumping of pure H2S to the atmosphere had to stop and slowed to <>0.5%, the field flaring that went on all over Alberta has about came to an end.

But things are changing in the FRAC world. Vertical fracs have been replaced with horizontal fracs utilizing much larger amounts of fluids. Good thing - kinda depends. From a owner of the resource, you bet - get a larger return for investment, for the residents of Alberta - you bet - larger royalty returns but if there is a problem, the local residents lose.

 

Been around a long time. Worked for a company that wanted to drill a sour well NW of Millarville in the high rent district. You outta heard the Oil Execs scream. Hate to tell you - everyone has a back yard. Some folks get their's crapped in.

 

Does the oil industry preform better - certainly. But with oil sands expansion and now heavy reliance on horizontal frac. time will tell if there are issues. Till the issues appear as I'm sure some will, the jury is still out.

 

And I really got a kick outta both the oil sands operators and the Gov't thumping their bird like chests over cleaning up the first settling pond in Albert in Ft. Mc. City Services that morphed to CGOS that morphed to ???? installed the pond in 1960's. Rapidly counting on my fingers, that's only 50 years to get it done.

 

Just for some reading for ya'. How about you count up how many orphan wells exist in Alberta, the cost of abandonment and who is going to pay.

 

 

Have a fine New Year.

 

 

regards,

 

 

Don