Again With The Morons

[canadensis]

Lets put it this way....I've never seen a flyfisher throw away all of his gear and take up hardware chucking exclusely. The evolution is usually the other way around.

 

chucking a double streamer rig, articulated streamers, dumbell eyes, corkies, splitshot, san juan worms, two fly nympg rigs; I see zero difference "fly" fishing with this gear or chucking a rapala or bottom bouncing a small jig with a spin rod or center pinning. Yes the casting is different and this is where it ends.

 

 

 

 

[canadensis]

Could someone help me? I'm looking for the group of guys that chuck rapalas with there fly rods thanks.

 

It is called a streamer Tungsten.

 

If you forget to pinch your barb on it you should not be judged any differently than the guy that forgets on his spinner or rapala.

[Smitty]

I remember coming to Calgary for a flyfishing conclave years back, and Dave Hughes was there. He said he refused to use beads on his nymphs - thought it was a form of cheating or something.

 

Hydro, that "evolution" you spoke of; nothing to do with us flyfishers existing on a higher moral plane, it may be that flyfishing is more stimulating, more challenging, and, at the same time, more fun.

 

Yeah, I'm with Rickr and B. Mitchell on this one; we've got better things to do than to judge another person's legal method of fishing. But some elitists have an addiction to self-congratulatory ego gratification. What can you do?

 

Smitty

 

 

[orvisonly]

So some of you fished with a spin rod, 2 flies, a weight, and a bobber.

 

Now you nymph with a fly rod, 2 flies, splitshot, and a corkie.

 

So tell me what the difference is?

 

The difference is obvious. In the first instance even an idiot wouldn't suggest he or she was fly fishing.

[Parry]

When i was little i used to tie on panther martens onto a fly rod and catch fish that way because i thought it was funner, but then again i used to stick keys in light sockets because it was a good hiding place....

[Smitty]

Could someone help me? I'm looking for the group of guys that chuck rapalas with there fly rods thanks.

 

Well, I don't chuck, just troll.

 

Since I use a fly rod, fly reel, fly line, and I wind 2 turns of hackle in front of the rapala, I know I must be flyfishing still.

 

But I also pinch the barbs! x2

 

Smitty

[Neil Waugh]

One man's Clouser is another man's lead head jig. Get over it. Hey and by the way, they don't allow strike indicators on FF-only BC rivers. No droppers either. In Alberta three flies under a corkie with a cluster of BB-lead shot is considered sporting. And what the heck is a wire wrapped San Juan?

We've come a long way from Halford, baby.

[hydropsyche]

Anytime this subject comes up, there seems to be an assumption of intent. I think that in the majority of cases, there is no evil intent, just lack of knowledge.

 

Lack of knowledge is what I was alluding to. Evolution from a Yahoo to someone who respects the fish more. Since the evolution is usually from spin to fly, the knowledge gained during that evolution results in less flyfishers free falling fish. That has been my observation (and most CO's from what I understand). I'm not slamming spin casters. Spin casters and flyfishers have members that respect and disrespect the fish (obviously) but one group has more yahoos then the other.

 

Spin casters, as a whole, are probably getting a bad rap because its easier then fly fishing and is the choice of the majority of yahoos.

[jksnijders]

 

 

At first glance, I thought this thread was titled "Again with the Mormons."?

[reevesr1]

Lack of knowledge is what I was alluding to. Evolution from a Yahoo to someone who respects the fish more. Since the evolution is usually from spin to fly, the knowledge gained during that evolution results in less flyfishers free falling fish. That has been my observation (and most CO's from what I understand). I'm not slamming spin casters. Spin casters and flyfishers have members that respect and disrespect the fish (obviously) but one group has more yahoos then the other.

 

Spin casters, as a whole, are probably getting a bad rap because its easier then fly fishing and is the choice of the majority of yahoos.

Hydro,

The "assumption of intent" line wasn't in the least directed at you. I was just answering your line about the method of study. Sorry if you thought I was taking a shot. That shot was aimed very squarely at others.

 

I could argue the yahoo lines, because I think that anything that equates fishing style with yahooness misses the point (or at least misses my point). But may just be defensive on my part because I still very happily employ some of the techniques used by these yahoos. And I can assure you that in many of the places I fish there is absolutely nothing easy about it. And I haven't spin fished flowing water because I've found fly fishing more effective. And in some ways easier. Just can't cast as far!

 

And this isn't directed at you either......

 

Threads like this remind me that while I really like fly fishing, or maybe I should say fishing with a fly rod, I find some fly fishermen amazingly annoying.

[Pythagoras]

At first glance, I thought this thread was titled "Again with the Mormons."?

 

 

Seriously.....LMAO!

[Pythagoras]

The difference is obvious. In the first instance even an idiot wouldn't suggest he or she was fly fishing.

 

Truer words have never been spoken....

 

I grew up fishing salmon on the east coast. When I first came out here and learned (and still learning) how to throw nymphs I really didn't think I was fly fishing....not sure I still am all comfortable with it....lead weight in fly fishing just don't feel right... indicators...well, thats just a bobber that fly fishing engineers gave another name. I do it...I catch fish with it (not alot...it needs work) but I would much rather cast a dry or trail a streamer...much rather

[reevesr1]

Truer words have never been spoken....

 

I grew up fishing salmon on the east coast. When I first came out here and learned (and still learning) how to throw nymphs I really didn't think I was fly fishing....not sure I still am all comfortable with it....lead weight in fly fishing just don't feel right... indicators...well, thats just a bobber that fly fishing engineers gave another name. I do it...I catch fish with it (not alot...it needs work) but I would much rather cast a dry or trail a streamer...much rather

 

But isn't a streamer really just a lure? Most often weighted, at least around here. So the only true fly fishing, I guess, is with a dry, emerger, or regular wet fly on unweighted floating line.

 

I'd rather fish a dry as well. When it is working there is nothing in fishing that is better. Don't find streamer fishing any funner than nypmphs, but maybe that's because it is so similar to the fishing I've done my whole life, just with a shorter cast and much less effective. Particularly without a barb (just to make some reference to the original topic).

 

[rehsifylf]

Threads like this remind me that while I really like fly fishing, or maybe I should say fishing with a fly rod, I find some fly fishermen amazingly annoying.

 

X2 - but then I probably annoy other too (especially on the hockey thread).

[headscan]

But isn't a streamer really just a lure? Most often weighted, at least around here. So the only true fly fishing, I guess, is with a dry, emerger, or regular wet fly on unweighted floating line.

I consider all flies to be lures. A definition:

something that tempts or is used to tempt a person or animal to do something

 

Describes any fly (dry, nymph, streamer, emerger), spoon, rapalla, etc. doesn't it? I think describing a fly as something other than a lure is just another way for the elitists to make themselves feel better. Always thought fly fishing just meant you were casting the line rather than the lure regardless of terminal tackle. Rick, I guess we aren't elitists.

[canadensis]

So some of you fished with a spin rod, 2 flies, a weight, and a bobber.

 

Now you nymph with a fly rod, 2 flies, splitshot, and a corkie.

 

 

The difference is obvious. In the first instance even an idiot wouldn't suggest he or she was fly fishing.

 

Really? The presentation is exactly the same, the fly's or "lures" are exactly the same, and the set-up on the line is exactly the same.

 

Some would consider the latter as not "flyfishing", some jusidictions don't consider it flyfishing either.

[Guest Sundancefisher]

I've fished both (like most of you, I assume) and I believe that it might not kill them more but it sure does damage them more. Maybe fish are more resilent then we give them credit for.

 

I've often wondered how they do those studies. Do the same people remove both types of hooks and then put the fish in a controlled environment or do they follow the yahoo's around to see how delicate they are removing that treble with their needle nose before the fish free falls back into the water?

 

I'm probably going to get flamed for profiling but I'm not slamming yahoos. I used to be one. I'm just questioning the accuracy of these studies because of what I've seen (and done).

 

This is a tough topic for me.

 

I know the initial regulation for barbless hooks was brought into being not by biologists in Alberta but rather as a directive from Klein. Klein likes to fish and fished a lot in areas like northern Manitoba. There he noticed the barbless hook regulation and that there were tons of fish. He attributed his great fishing to barbless rather than the regulation and overall management of the fishery.

 

So putting it in perspective...barbless regulations only served politicians.

 

So how about ignoring this regulation. Well...saying I agree to someone using barbed hooks regardless may cause a backlash from some members based upon the emotions running on this thread. That being said there are plenty of studies involving mortality rates and the top of the list and in fact way, way ahead is baited hooks. Barbed versus no barbed has shown in studies to be statistically insignificant insofar as normal catch and release practices are concerned. when barbed hooks are swallowed into the gill area...mortality is high...but also similar to barbless. Swallowed hooks are the same and if baited well probably 40% mortality. Studies were usually done having people catch fish and then release them into pens and checked mortality over time.

 

Additional factors more importantly to catch and release mortality is fighting stress (fish fought to the brink of exhaution and then released without properly reviving; fish left out of the water suffocating while photos are taken or hooks are removed or decisions to keep or kill etc.; damage to their skins protective coating and subsequent infection; and just plain lazy catch and release behavoir such as simply not being careful etc.

 

As for the initial post...someone using barbed hooks is probably not destroying any fishery. They are breaking the rules but from a management perspective IMHO it would be akin to a misdermener while driving such as a cracked windshield verus speeding and running red lights or jaywalking versus robbery. No one really gets hurt.

 

As a past biologist and very very critical of keeping our fishery healthy...I would have no problems removing the barbless regulation.

 

Anyways...in a catch and release scenario...it is the person that controls most mortality via handling etc...not the barb. For the small percentage difference between barbed and unbarbed...it is really not worth fighting and calling each other names for guys.

 

Cheers

 

Sun

 

P.S. I also mostly flyfish but will cast any rod, any lure, any hook, for any fish if given the chance. My choice of gear starts with...1) Which ever provides the most excitment in the take and the fight 2) which ever is the most challenging 3) which ever works best. Mooching for 30 lb Chinooks is not a bad way to spend the day :-) and neither is trolling 12 in plugs for sailfin and wahoo!

[orvisonly]

Really? The presentation is exactly the same, the fly's or "lures" are exactly the same, and the set-up on the line is exactly the same.

 

Some would consider the latter as not "flyfishing", some jusidictions don't consider it flyfishing either.

 

Look up. Look way up.

[canadensis]

Look up. Look way up.

 

Look down.

 

[hydropsyche]

Rickr. No problem bud. I knew it wasn't directed at me. On yahoos. They're in both camps. Sometimes I'm too lazy to type out the obvious.

 

Couple comments. I still have and sometimes use my spin gear. Heck. I'll even use bait if the regs allow it. I do not consider myself an elitest.

 

I'm with headscan. If the weight of the lure pulls your line out, you're spin casting. If the weight of the line pulls your lure out, your fly fishing. I'll even go so far as to say that if you can reel in while a fish is pulling your line out, you're not flyfishing.

[zed]

i feel that if you're fishing within the rules of b.c.'s version of "flyfishing only" regulations, you are actually flyfishing. anything else is just fishing with a fly rod.

[reevesr1]

So I fish with a fly rod. Guess I should start my own board dedicated to it and leave all the fly fishermen to their own! There may be a couple of dozen.