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According to military officials, they are petitioning to have the Geneva convention amended to include watching the Oilers as a form of cruel and unusual punishment.

Thats twice now in the past month that the Flames have won, the Losers got pummelled and Vancouver blew a lead in the third. Christmas just keeps coming. I knew the Flames would dominate the 3rd last night, unless the zebras stepped in. No doubt Miller let in two easy ones - but he also made some spectacular saves (that one on Lombardi was unreal). Flames outshot them 43-27 - I don't think you can blame it on the goalie. That save kipper made when it was 2-2 was a game saver and to me he really deserved the 3rd star. I even have to admit that Bert played the best game I've seen him play all year (still don't want him around). As for Cammalleri - I think the Flames can keep him. Aucoin is done and we don't need his services anymore (he is playing pretty well now, so likley someone will pick him up). They'd do better to trade him for a draft pick now (don't think Sutter would do it0. Take his money, the money Cammalleri got this year, and lock in Cammalleri for 4 years.

Thought the Flames played really well last night (except for Boyd who was brutal and Kipper). You won't win many games when you stop less than 85% of the shots. Not sure what game those clowns from the Communist Bradcasting Corporation were watching, but when you win 70% of the face-offs, have 2X the number of hits, outshoot the other team 32-26, and soundly win the only fight - I don't think you can say "The flames just didn't have it going tonight". Sometimes you can play a great game and lose. To me, last night would have been the perfect start for McElhinney - pretty sure he could have stopped that shot from the corner behind the goal line. One things for sure - the Flames would be very lucky to draw Phoenix in the first round - that team is a weak imitation of the Wild from last year. Flames would have no trouble beating them in 4 or 5.

I'd say Kipper has been competant over the past month. not great - but then the team in front of him is excellent. I don't think Kipper playing every game has anything to do with Keenan - my bet is that this comes from Sutter. In any event, as someone that has been critical of Sutter in the past, I have to say that he did a great job over the summer - the three biggest differences in the team this year are Bourque, Camm, and Glencross. As for Bert - the last game was the best since he joined the team (he didn't take any dumb penalties and no annoying behind the back passes - if only his back could permanently ail him). One thing for sure - Curtis is 100% better at shoot-outs than kipper. He was awesome at the skills competition. Also - best shoot-out skill was Prust followed closely by Roy - go figure.

I thought they played really well and enjoyed the game. What a play by Langkow. I liked the goal better on the radio, because Peter called as Dion scoring it instead of Bert. Don't care how many he scores I will never be a fan.

Was looking for some info tonight and cam accross this article from summer of 2007. Funny stuff. pretty long, so if you skip to the second last paragraph it summarizes nicely. It was printed in the Sydney Morning Herald Aug 18, 2007. Imagine if the American government agency responsible for temperature records had announced a fortnight ago that it had overestimated annual temperatures since the year 2000. Imagine if, at the time of correcting this error, the hottest year on record was mysteriously altered from 1998 to 1934. Imagine further that if you considered the 10 hottest years on record after these corrections, the hottest decade changed from the 1990s to the 1930s. Would that change your views on global warming? It should, because climate change theory says increased carbon dioxide in the atmosphere raises the temperature. Yet the hot 1930s was hardly a decade of carbon-spewing industrial growth. Well, all these things have happened. NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies calculates the average US temperature figures. It does this by processing data from land measurement sites. Earlier this year a Canadian mathematician named Steve McIntyre approached the institute and pointed out an error in its more recent calculations. Figures since 2000 had been inflated by about 0.15 of a degree celsius. The institute thanked him and on August 7 quietly changed these figures, and some of the rankings on its list of the hottest years on record, which extends back to 1880. It did this without any public acknowledgment of the changes. The Goddard Institute is a major supporter of the climate change orthodoxy, and the discovery that it got one of the central data sets of global warming science and debate wrong is embarrassing and disturbing. Previously, McIntyre, along with the economist Ross McKitrick, had demolished the so-called "hockey stick" chart used in the third report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. The graph incorrectly portrayed the history of the Earth's average temperature over the past millennium as essentially unchanged until a steep climb in the 20th century. This made a modest rise in temperature appear far more unusual than it really was. The two men had difficulty gaining access to the data and methodologies used in creating the hockey stick, a difficulty facing many who want to question the most basic research on which the science of climate change rests. It was McIntyre's continuing interest in such basic questions, pursued publicly at his blog climateaudit.org, that led him to look at the problematic siting of many US land weather stations (see photos of them at the website SurfaceStations.org) and how the data they produce is processed. Strange as it might seem in a scientific field that spends some $6.4 billion a year on often abstruse research and computer modelling, the integrity of the basic temperature data is emerging as a serious problem. The Goddard Institute claims to correct data from poorly sited stations, but McIntyre says it refused to tell him how it does this in sufficient detail for him to check its results. When he obtained some of the raw data from specific sites and compared it with the processed temperatures created by the institute, he found problems. In one case data from a good site, at the Grand Canyon, had been changed to make the 1930s colder than they were. Across the Atlantic, the British mathematician Douglas Keenan has claimed that two important academic papers on the reliability of Chinese weather stations are wrong. This is a major issue because one of the papers is cited by the IPCC to support its position that measurement errors owing to urbanisation and the "heat island effect" - which makes cities warmer than their surroundings - are insignificant. Keenan claims to have discovered that some of the Chinese stations have been moved a lot. One, for example, had five different locations from 1954 to 1983, over a distance of 41 kilometres. This makes the data largely useless. It took several years to gain access to the information needed to reveal this fault with the papers, because the academics involved refused to release it. Keenan finally obtained it by the creative means of using Britain's Freedom of Information Act, on the grounds that an academic who had the information was a public servant. The climate change establishment is represented by the website realclimate.org. Its response to McIntyre's success in getting the Goddard Institute to reduce US temperature figures for the period since 2000 has been to say that the implication for global averages is imperceptible, since the US is only a very small fraction of the global area. Strictly speaking this is correct, although America's figures are more important than its land area might indicate because they go back so far in an unbroken line, which is fairly unusual. Since the break-up of the USSR, the number of weather stations in the world has declined by half. Many of them used to be in cold areas. The scientists who compile global averages presumably try to take this into account - although in light of some of the above stories you have to wonder just how well they succeed. Whatever the scientific implications of McIntyre's revelation, the rhetorical one is huge. America is the centre of the global debate on climate change. No longer will Americans or anyone else be able to say the hottest year on record in their great nation was 1998. Looking at the new top 10, it's hard to see any signs of global warming. The ranking, starting from the hottest year, goes: 1934, 1998, 1921, 2006, 1931, 1999, 1953, 1990, 1938, 1939. It's a sad thought, but maybe we and our weather are not as unusual as some want to believe.

Give me 6 million a year and I think I could stop the first 2 shots. If it were once or twice - I wouldn't be negative. This guy has done this for more than two seasons and people keep speaking like he is an elite goalie - he is not. Tonight is one in a string of times where he has gone up against and back-up, rookie, or back-up to back up - and been badly outplayed. I'll try harder not to be so negative - I know it is a downer - but it is frustrating to watch them play this guy game in game out.

Kipper played well the other night. Really well. So not surprising that tonight he let the second shot in tonight. The only consistency he has had this year is that he has not played well two games in a row. As goes this guy, so goes the team. If they don't start developing Curtis or getting another goalie the flames will loiter with the likes of Edmonton for bottom of the division. Outshooting montreal 8-2 and down by a goal.

Birchy - did you get the PM I sent you on this?

sigh really hard to watch a game, hoping that that get through the first 10 shots withotu a goal, but knowing they won't. 9 shots, 2 goals - what else is new.

the logic from one side is easy - see softwood lumber dispute.

I mentioned that I joined the liberal party last year and can't get off mailing lists. Got three today all similar, but one was from an MP (Ruby Dhalla) from Toronto begging for money. I really feel like I'm in an old episode of MASH and this came out of a propaganda bomb. I bet if i donated $100, they would spend it getting a skywriter to spell out 'Surrender Stephen' accross the sky. BTW - I have no doubt that any members of the 'Con'servative are getting similar spew from the likes of Jason k or Diane A. Buying time Le français suit Dear <guy that was ever dumb enough to join the liberal party of canada>, In an unprecedented display of arrogance and a complete abdication of his accountability to Canadians, Stephen Harper has shut down Parliament in order to avoid facing a confidence vote he knew he and his government would lose. He has bought himself six more weeks to come up with a plan for our damaged economy – a plan that has so far eluded him. He has also bought six more weeks for his Conservative Party to continue their advertising and PR campaign of half-truths and outright fabrications in order to shore up support in the far-too-likely event that he is unsuccessful in regaining Parliament's confidence in January. The Liberal Party must be in a strong position to respond no matter what further machinations the Harper Conservatives introduce. Please make a donation right now of $10, $25, $100 or whatever amount you can afford. Make sure your voice is heard. Government accountability is something we must all fight for. Please help us ensure Canada has the government we deserve. Thank you, Ruby Dhalla Labour Critic Liberal Party of Canada

Suspending parliament will give Canadians a chance to get informed. Take the opportunity, I am. Here is a view of what canada is facing and a summary of the update presented. I'm not sure what people are expecting them the government to do - it is what it is. the world econmoy will suck for the next year or two or three... http://www.fin.gc.ca/ec2008/Ec/ectoc-eng.html I'm betting that few have actually read this document and encourage you to read it. A couple of things that stood out to me- Chart 1.9 - This is why I don't like the idea of massive stimulus leading to massive debt. Chart 1.15 - perhaps the scariest of all table 1.1 - What the private sector predicts future will look likeTable 2.3. Makes it very easy to see why Quebec want to separate. Chart 2.3. The range of "predictions' for 2009 - makes it a little easier to understand why they are uncertain of what stimulus should be applied. Chart 2.5 - Its bad all over - but Canada is far better than most and this statement - In 1990–91, the Government spent almost 38 cents of every revenue dollar on debt service charges. This ratio has been falling steadily since 1996–97 and is expected to fall to 13 cents in 2008–09. I would rather suffer short term pain for long term gain, then blow a whole bunch of dough on things we don't need. Check out chart number 1.13 - maybe stimulus for automobile manufacturing is not where we should focus. They are in trouble because they have not been competetive for many years. One thing that is clear from reading this is why people in Ontario and especially Ottawa are smoked. Looks like the public sector employees might have to live in the real world. I work in the Oil Patch and we have a wage freeze and have started layoffs - and guess what, with Oil under $45 we understand that. "The legislation puts in place annual wage increases for the federal public administration, including senior members of the public service, as well as Members of Parliament, Cabinet Ministers, and Senators, of 2.3 per cent in 2007–08 and 1.5 per cent for the following three years." Since the beginning of the year, wage growth in the public sector has been leading that of the private sector. One thing you'll notice though is that the plan to cut public funding for political parties is gone. And in addition to that, here are the other things that got pulled due to opposition from the 'coalition forces': - Cuts to substantial salary increases for federally appointed judges. - Measures to rein in spending by MPs and top civil servants, such as new restrictions on travel and expenses. - Elimination or trimming of the roughly $6,500-per-MP salary increase scheduled to go into effect April 1, at a cost of $2 million. - Cancellation of Christmas bonuses for management-class civil servants and executives of Crown corporations. Hmm - doesn't look like most of the affected anyone outside of Ottawa.

I agree. It is interesting to see the partisan views displayed on this board - very closely resembles the house right now. But you make a good point. Everyone is saying Harper played dirty politics with the political funding clause. A few facts (not opinions) regarding that: 1. The Conservatives have said they support this position and would introduce the legislation several times in the past, 2. The recent Angus Reid poll of Canadians (taken this week) showed that 60% of Canadians support eliminating public funding of political parties. 60% might not sound like a huge majority, but its the first thing I've seen 60% of Canadians agree on in a long time. I don't see how proposing changes that 60% of Canadians support is dirty politics. 3. The government funding is proportional to the number of votes recieved, so the party that will be most drastically impacted by reduced funding is the Conservatives. Now for my opinion. The stimulus package issue is a red herring - clearly created after the fact. In Canada, October car sales set a new record - we are way behind the curve of the US as far as the economic fall-out from the financial crisis goes. We'll get there (no-one will escape the next two years), but we aren't there yet. Our banks are in nowhere near the same position as the the US. The IMF, OECD, and World Economic Forum all have stated that Canada is in the best shape of any industrialized nation in the world. So a stimulus package now would be ill-advised, since we cannot know what stimulus is required. Our economy will be based on how the US goes. Nothing we can do about that. Take the bad with the good. Pretending that our government can isolate and protect Canada by creating a huge deficit that will have my children spending a decade to get out of (been there done that) might make it seem like the government is doing something, but the facade would be too costy. I really wish that people would take the time to read some history on our government, where it came from, and how it works instead of just listening to politicians (be they Liberal, Conservative, NDP, or Bloc -they all have different interpretations) or even worse, listeing to the news and taking their 'opinion' as fact. Specifically - read some history on coalitions in our form of parliament (based on the British house) and understand that our government is no more similar to Germany or Itally than it is the the US. We do not use a proportional respresentation model. Also - look at how coalition governments are normally formed. They are formed after an election and before the government is formed, almost always involve the two largest parties (who represent a majority of the people). Had 1) the Liberals and NDP (both federal parties) won enough seats to form a majority coalition and they agreed to do this before the minority government of the conservatives formed the government or 2) the Liberals and the Conservatives formed a coalition; then it would be unprecedented, but at least in line with the intent of our parliamentary model (my opinion). Ask youself this question: If this is how our government is supposed to work, then why has this not happened (except during a world war) in Canada or Great Britain? I saw someone suggest that we have four left wing parties and one right wing. If you examine policy and track record, you will see that the two that are closest in platformare the Conservative and the Liberals. The NDP and the Liberals have far more platform differences (particulalry on the Economic policy side of things). So it is interesting to me that they would form a coaltion based on an economic issue. Last thing - the comment that "as far as I know the coalition is only to pass pre-determined bills" is perhaps the most disturbing comment I've read from somone who seems to have formed an opinion on this.

Wow - took all off 2 shots before he let the 1st one in tonight. Like I said - if you look back throughout he year, he will let the first goal in within the first five shots on net at least 50% of the time. Most with the same goofy reboound right out front. How this guy gets the Molson star of the month 2 months in a row is beyond me. And in the second period. Boom baby - 2nd shot again. Funny thing - on both the first period and second period goal, it was the second shot only because he kicked out juicy rebounds on both - so really it should have only been one shot. Good grief - Flames outshooting 16-7, completely dominating and yet down 2:1. If the Flames had top 10 goaltending, they would be ahead of Detroit.

I think it has been said that this has nothing to do with democracy - it may suck, but it is not undemocratic. In fact, it took a yank to point out that this is the basis of our democracy I don't condone lying, but all parties have done it, including the Conservatives. My take on the current coalition is that Gov Gen suspends parliament. Each party does a poll and find out it would be a huge mistake, then the coalition group says, OK for the sake of Canada, we won't do it, cause we are the good guys. Crisis averted. But as long as we are doing petitions - how about fair and equal representation in Parliment? Going from 2007 numbers, Canada has 32.945M people. I looked at provincial and territorial populations versus the number of seats in parliment. There are 308 seats in the government, and based on population: BC should have 41 seats, but only has 36 (ripped off by 14%) Alberta should have 32 seats (32.5 actually), but only has 28 (ripped off by 14.2%) Sask should have 9 seats , but has 14 seats (56% more seats than they should have) Man should have 11 seats, but has 14 (27% more seats than they should have) Ontario should have 120 seats, but has 106 (ripped off by 13.2%) Quebec should have 72 seats, but has 75 (4.1% more seats than they should have) NB should have 7 seats, but has 10 (42.9% more seats than they should have) NS should have 9 seats, but has 11 (22.2% more seats than they should have) PEI should have 1 seat, but has 4 (300% more than they should have) NFLD should have 5 seats, but has 7 seats (40% more than they should have) Yukon, NWT, and Nunavut combined should have less than 1 seat. but have 3 seats (200%+ more than they should have) How do you get that changed? If you look at the people getting ripped - BC, Alberta, and Ontario - you have a total of 170 seats in the house. Enough to pass a vote. Its a joke that PEI has four seats. Between PEI and the Territories, they have 7 seats but represent less than 250000 people. Calgary has 1M+ people and 8 seats. That means we get 1/4 of the representation of someone in Nunavat.

I'd say the second Vcr win was won of the better all around games the Flames played this year. Solid up, back, and in net. The Flames know how to beat a team with limted talent like Vancouver (hell, they were the same team 4 years ago). Be patient, don't get frustrated, and eventually you'll win (or maybe even lose by a goal - but at least your odds of winning will be high). They've been doing it to Minn for the past 2 years.

Careful with joining a political party. I was so smoked at Flaherty over the income trust lie that I actually joined the liberal party. Get propaganda nearly every day from them now. Getting off of the list is about impossible. On the plus side, you do get to see how these parties really are (and I imagine they are all the same). It really is like school children how they behave and the petty arguements they make. Reminds me of a high school election they way they act (and Ken Dryden, who was my hero when i was a kid, is absolutley the worst). Has absolutley nothing to do with doing what's best for Canadians and is all about them WINNING against the other guys. Here is a smaple of the spin they send: "Stephen Harper has panicked. Unable or unwilling to take real action to address Canada’s economic crisis, he has insisted on continuing to play partisan games. It has now caught up with him. Two thirds of Canadian voters chose one of the opposition parties in the October election. If you were one of them, then now is the time to make your voice heard." They must think we are all imbeciles. Can't wait to see what they try to do to Alberta - can you say NEP II?

I'm not sure what it looked like on TV - but from the stands - and this is coming from a Flames fan - looked like the kings got absolutley hosed on the penalties. Bert should have had about 4 penalties for holding alone. When you have 9 powerplays and the other team 2 - hard to get too excited about the win. That said, it will make it easier to swallow when the Flames are on the other end (probably tonight, but definately on Saturday - 'cause its HNIC). Oh joy, get to hear Crapford do colour for the Canucks. Think I'll turn off the sound and listen to music instead.

Not to pile on - but once again - goal against within the first 5 shots (3rd shot tonight). Other than that, thought Kipper played well in first and second. But then 2 goals on 10 shots in the third. That fourth goal was so bad, it even took Crawford a few seconds to come up with why it wasn't the goalie's fault. Over the years - CBC has had some brutal play play teams - but Crapford and Lee are god awful. Wasn't hard to tell where Lee is from and grew up by the way he talked about how great the home team was last night, the home team of course being Detroit. And the Crow clearly still resents the loss to Calgary in '04 that led to his getting punted from Vancouver. What a great pair to put on the broadcast for hockey night in Canada. I loved it in the third when Crawford says that Calgary just wasn't able to put any pressure on the smooth skating Detroit team - the Flames far outplayed Detroit in the third and if not for a couple of amazing saves by Conklin (on Phanuef and Langkow) flames would have been up 4-2 when Detroit scored their third goal. Even Lee couldn't stomach that comment and completely contradicted Crapford in the next sentence by saying Calgary had all the pressure on in the 3rd. Used to be that you could turn of the CBC crap and listen to the game on the radio while watching. CBC has taken care of that by putting a major delay on the television feed. If the FAN 960 was smart, they'd introduce the same delay, and they would pick up about 20,000 listeners during every sportsnet and cbc aired game.

I agree with Smitty. Everyone draws the line somewhere on what they would kill/harm for sport. We all go bananas when we see a huge rainbow or brown caught and pictures flashed on here. Lots of people would never understand that - and not just members of PETA.

Good game. Like I said, if the Flames can keep the other team to under 20 shots and 2 good opps, they will win. When they get out-shot and win, I'll give props to kipper.

Some bonus video for flames fans that are not oiler fans (sorry hog) MacIntyre lays a beating on Godard's hands with his face. I like when the big guy goes to the box and almost falls over. And regarding our defense and Kipper - during that period (04-06/07) his save percentage was .920 - it is .888 this year. Any game where it has been .910 or better, flames have won. I don't think it is fair to say that he wasn't one of or the best goalie in that period - his numbers were great. However, in the past two years he has been getting worse, and this year is one of the poorer staring goalies in the league. What's different with the defense was that they used to be able to tie guys up. You'll notice that (up until this year) - Mikka was very good at making the first stop, but quite often popped the rebound to the slot. in '04 the D was all over anyone there, and they seldom got a good shot. They can no longer do that. Finally - the '04 team was really not that good. They had a great run but IMO, every year the team has improved since then, including this year (Kipper excluded).

Finally found a way to enjoy the game. Bet my son that Kipper would let in one of the first five shots. He did not disappoint. Thats what a goalie can do for a team. Colorado was absolutley owned for the entire game and yet they stayed in it pretty much the whole way (mind you not hard to own a team when you get 7 powerplays - weakest part of the flames game tonight). Those saves in the 3rd were sick. It is so simple - all the Flames have to do is get every call and outshoot the other team 3:1 and they can win every time (but it will be close!) BTW - Horcoff should get some lessons from Iginla any time EDIT - just saw the Edmonton score. How does a team get outshot 39-19 and win 7-2? Almost like they were playing Calgary.

LOL - the last two PPV have been pretty serious blowouts. On the plus side, Curtis gave up only 2 goals on 26 shots (one on a 5:3). They are either going to have to show some confidence in this kid or get another back-up like last year. On aucoin - well, nothing really new there. I thought Rhett far outplayed him in pre-season.