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My point was simply a response to Mike's post regarding pay increasses for the CEOs of Oil company's. Since the thread started with a suggestion that the Royalty rate reduction was not required and was about greed, I took Mike's post to imply that CEO greed was one of the larger issues. I'm somewhat on the fence about CEO pay, but O&G CEO pay is ~ to CEO pay in other industries. What is really out of whack in O&G is the rates of pay for labour in the field compared to other industries. I'm neither a teacher nor do I work in the field, but I do have close knowledge on what's involved in both occupations. "Field" is a very broad term. I don't claim to know details about all forms of O&G field work, but have dealt with several. As for teachers, in my opinion, they are not respected near enough in our society and comments like, "They work 6 hours a day and have the summers off" demonstrate a lack of understanding about how important teachers and education are to a society, and how dedicated they are to the children they teach. I may not always agree with Smitty (or ever) but I can tell that he would be an awesome teacher and influence on my kids. I pointed out the compensation we get to underline that society does not value the work teachers do. If they did then the respone to my post might have been, "You're right, we don't pay teachers enough." I won't resort to insults as others have done. I will say that if my post was the most assinine someone has read, I find it hard to believe that they have read all that many posts. I did not say anyone had an easy job - my cleaning lady likley works harder than I do, and in worse conditions, as do the folks that collect refuse from the end of my driveway. I wouldn't trade jobs with them, even for the same pay. Since the can of worms was opened here are my observations. I've worked as an officer in the military, a manager in high technology, and a manager in O&G. My perception only, is that of the three groups of operations personnel that I've managed, the military were by far the most resourceful, professional, obviously well trained and lowest paid. The manufacturing operations folks were the most innovative, productive, and competetive and paid slightly more than the military folks, but overall compensation was close. The O&G folks are a mixed bag, and there are some excellent folks out there, but for the most part the biggest differentiator is experience, not capability or potential. Typically, in most industries, the level of compensation is commesurate with formal training or education combined with experience. I don't find that to be true in O&G. To the gent that suggested the conditions are very rough and lonely in the field. I have no doubt they are. I'm not sure they are rougher than those that the men and women of the armed forces face that go out on ship for 4 months straight or to Kandahar for 6 months. A Warrant Officer in either place would make far less than half what a construction supervisor at an O&G site would make. You may not know many field folks that are making more than $220K but I do. To the folks that suggested that O&G field workers don't get 2 months off every summer. That is probably true, but a very large number of O&G personnel work 2 in 2 out. By my count that is 26 weeks a year they are off. And yes, they work damn hard and long when they are in. I was heartened with the response from the one person who is in the field but recognizes that costs are still way out of whack. Supply and demand works, but it can get out of balance, especially when you're dealing with a somewhat captive and non-competitive market. I've enjoyed participating on these boards. I like it when people have different opinions, and mine very often is different than many on here. The global warming thread was probably the best one I've seen, although it has turned rather one sided lately. That said, I think I now understand why many folks stopped posting, or never started.

waffle stompers -love it.

they really ought to change the background to this board to red. The facts are that EVERYONE in this province benefits from O&G investment. To pretend that you don't is kidding yourself. The other facts were that investment did leave this province at a time when we needed it. BTW - you can focus on exec pay if you want, but the really outrageous costs in the oil patch are for folks in the field - many have no education beyond high school and get paid 3-4 times as much as a high school teacher with a Master's degree.

I think they need to forget this and get back to important things that will really save lives like the gun registration law .

Smitty, the link takes you to a book called The Four Hour Workweek. Is that what you were pointing to?

Exactly. I'd add that when our grandparents were our age they ate healthier, were less obese, ...

You have to ask how Hagman and Iginla can get all those goals in the Olympics and yet be unable to score at all on the Flames. Could it be that the heralded "System" is crap? Keenan got the bums rush for getting 98 points and finishing second in the NW (2 points out of 1st) last year. This year they are on pace for 89 points (15 points out of first), 3rd in the NW, and missing the playoffs. All this despite the fact that their #1 goaltender has played significantly better this year than last (.923 save percentage vs .903 last year) AND Wonder Boy Darryl has made major moves to "improve" the team. Sure am glad I'm no longer a fan of this team because I fear this is just the start of what will be similar to the 1996-2003 period. I suffered through that.

Hi rickr, No need to get personal. Since you've never met me, you really can't say what I have or haven't done as far pressure goes. Why don't you ask any curlers you know whether they could normally make that shot (under normal circumstances). Obviously pressure makes a difference, For some, they thrive on it: MJ for one, Tiger another, Jeter as well. Their play improves when the get under pressure. My definition of choking is when an expert of professional that misses a routine shot or play simply due to the pressure. If you don't think it was a choke, that's fine, many do, including Macleans http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/02/27/cheryl-...loses-the-gold/ I do think the team did great and did dominate the week of curling, making some really tough shots in tough situations, but the shot in the 10th was as routine as a skip can get to seal the deal. The extra end shot was tougher but still pretty straighforward for an expert curler. I think they would be perfectly happy with Silver had they been beaten by a great shot, but even Cheryl said that is not what happened.

A very Canadian response. Have great difficulty calling a spade a spade and like to jump on anyone who doesn't. You guys seem to know better, but here is what Reuters has to say about it: ----- Bernard blunders hand Sweden gold. VANCOUVER (Reuters) - Canada skip Cheryl Bernard failed to live up to her nickname "last shot," missing two big opportunities to seize victory and handing the Olympic women's curling gold medal to Sweden on Friday. Swedish skip Anette Norberg suffered a few early miscues but her side fought back to win 7-6 in the extra end after Bernard blew chances in the final two ends to seal a home victory in front of a boisterous crowd. "We got nervous after the fifth end and we got shaky, and she (Bernard) got shaky in the last two ends," Sweden's Cathrine Lindahl said. "We thought it was over. I'm so happy." Norberg gave Bernard an absolute gift by screwing up in the 7th for 2 and the 9th for another, or it would have been over early. Anyone who curls knows that Pro Skips make takeouts like the one in the 10th 99 times out of 100. For Hockey - like I said, I think it all comes down to goaltending. The US has it, Canada does not. Bobby Lu made a great save at the end, but let in an incredibly weak goal to get the Slovaks in it to begin with. The Canadians will be all over the US Sunday, outshoot and outchance them badly, but if Miller plays like he has and Luongo like he has, the score won't reflect the play.

I take back what I said about the women not choking. Bernard given two easy shots to win and misses the broom both times. I curl once a year and I could have made that takeout in the 10th. I somehow don't think Martin will have the same problems - he is just too much in the groove.

I can watch the top 15 women hockey players and say the same thing. They just happen to be on the same team! Good to see Kipper do that for some other team.

I find it odd that people talk about tossing an event out of the olympics because only 1 or 2 teams are dominant. Look at the other most exciting event in the Olypics - Ice Dancing. From 1976 to to 2006 - Russia/Soviet Union won 7 Gold, 6 Silver, and 3 bronze. The only reason they didn't seep the medals is that they only entered 2 teams. So out of a possible 18 medals , they won 16. Don't recall anyone talking about tossing Ice Dancing from the Olypmics (and it would be an awful shame if they did). People talk about how Canada beat Slovakia 18-0. How about Men's Giant Slalom. The winner clocked 2:37.83. The last place finisher - 3:34.92 - pretty sure I could come close to that time. If they had to race against each other it would make Canada-Slovakia look competitive.

I vote we remove all funding for any Canadian Male Athletes and give it all to the women. Really - Canadian men seem to choke at almost every opportunity (except for Bilodeau). Brutal. Good work by Rochette.

100% agree. Our goaltending has yet to really face any test, but so strong up front that as long as our goaltending is adequate and the opposition's goalie doesn't play like Miller in the US game, should be able to win 7-6.

Why, when a team loses, does everyone jump on the "they didn't play as a team" line? The problem, and even the media understood this, is that our goaltending was not as stellar as theirs. Plain and simple. How can you say they didn't play as a team when they took three penalties in the third, and still dominated the US outshooting them by a huge margin. If Edmonton went into Washington and beat them 4:3 with Edmontons goalie of the week stopping twice as many shots at the washington goalie, would people say Edmonton was better than Washington? BTW - I'm normally hard on goalies, but I don't think Brodeur played bad - just that Miller was exceptional. Go back and look at my first two posts on this thread and you'll see that going into the tournament we didn't have anything near a top goalie, so not sure why ANYONE would be surprised that Miller played lights out, he has been doing it all year. i don't expect Bobby Lou will save the day there either, but we still have a decent chance to win the tourney, because out forwards are that good.

I'm kinda surprised they even agreed to pay half - not saying they shouldn't, but unless your wife got witnesses, their story would likley change if it got to court and I'd be surprised if you would win if it came down to a "he said she said" (or in this case "she said, she said").

Sorry to hear this about one of the good guys on here. Speedy recovery.

Lundmark for...... Nothing. Brilliant move. Good move for my leafs though.

Could have swore the Flames won 6-1 the night before the trade with a PP goal. Anyway - must say it is far easier watching the Flames now that I no longer cheer for them.

I agree. Schenn is paying better too. Solid goaltending. Looks good - Edmonton should be happy - Overall a much better team after the trade and will only get better going forward.. Oh wait - were you talking about Calgary? Looked very similar to me tonight.

I climbed down slowly over the past 2 years. Began when we brought in Bertuzzi, started to move faster when Sutter claimed he couldn't afford to keep Cammalleri then went and got Jokinen and Bouwmeester, then hired his brother to coach. The guy that is probably feeling best about the Flames this year is Keenan. I must admit I nver was a fan of him coming here, but I also didn't think he was the problem. EDIT - BTW in 2002 Flames traded a 24 year old. He had 33 pts the previous season, was -18 +/-, and in the first 10 games of 2002 he had 3 points and was -3 then was traded. in 2005, after the lockout, the same player had 97 points and was +7. Since then 82 pts, 82 pts, 74 pts, and 82 pts. His point per game since the trade has been 1.1. No Flame since then has been close to that number. The number one complaint about that player from Flames 'fans' - "He was lazy". Most fans were happy to see him go - not me. In return Calgary got a superstar named Ruslan Zainullin. Remember him? FWIW - I think the second trade was much better than the first, and was probably enough to shae thing up. Overall - the Flames should be a better offensive team for the rest of this year. Doubt they'll make the playoffs though, and if they do, would be an etxreme longshot for them to beat any of the top seeded team. Future, IMO, was not bright for this team next year, but is even darker now.

Didn't there used to be a Maple Leafs thread on this site? My new favorite team. Can't expect much from the first game after a trade: except JS 1st Star, Dion 2nd Star, Freddy 3rd star. The leafs have a long ways to go, but at least they are on the way up. Watched the game on Sport-snot east and it was interesting that they actually pointed out the positives.

Have not enjoyed a Flames game more in the past two years. Offensive explosion was impressive. Get used to it Calgary. No talent and no prospects, most promising young player traded for two rentals, a goon, and a neverwillbe. Egomaniac GM, and a Coach that blames everyone but himself. Maybe when Kotalik and Higgins get here the goals will start pouring in. LOL

Let's wait until I'm proven wrong shall we.

Tough day for me. Phaneuf was my favorite player. In Toronto - he'll get the credit he deseves. I'll wager he winds the Norris either next year or the year after. The talking heads in Calgary did this guy in, and sheep fans followed. Thank God we still have Jokinen! I'm done with the Flames until Sutter goes. I won't go to a game until then. Hagman 3M, Stajan UFA next year, White RFA next year - not sure where all the cap room is.