OneMoreLastCast

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I just want to blow off some steam, so bare with me. I never spent much time on Boards like this until not too long ago. I stopped by occasionally, but usually found that I wasn't interested in getting involved, so I didn't. A few years ago I discovered the Fly Fish Alberta Board and started lurking. There seemed to be some great discussion occasionally with some good natured debates, great information and some pretty decent people around. I eventually became a member and became part of the community. I didn't post too much, but tried to contribute where I could. Eventually the board got taken over by arguments, personal attacks against members, as well as attacks on the people that ran the board. The board just shut down, which was sad, but seemed to be a blessing in disguise because Dave set up this great board that most of the respectful members from the other board moved over to. Over time, the input here has become repetitive and a lot of posting/replies that have no positive outcome or expectation. People are posting less and less pictures/reports because it just isn't worth getting Flamed for it. I've noticed a lot of the original members that have extensive experience and do too much for the fisheries to get into, have all but disappeared except to stop by occasionally. It's a shame because this is such a great source for not only newer Anglers to learn, but experienced Anglers to pick up new tricks and techniques. It's a great place for people with a common interest to just "Shoot the *hit" if that's the case as well. Now we have people taking shots at the administration here. I'm to blame for sending that particular thread sideways I guess, but realistically, it was going to happen anyways eventually IMO. Where on the planet do the rules set for the masses, apply to the people that have to enforce them? It just doesn't work that way, so wake up and live with it. I will still be involved here as far as any charitable events or causes to help/aid our fishery, but otherwise will only be stopping by to talk to friends here via PM. I really hope people give their heads a shake and realize what a great thing Dave put together here and how much he does for the Calgary fishing community by maintaining this board. I've met some great people here and look forward to many years of fishing with them. Thanks for everything you've done here Dave. Later folks....

Glen, I apologize for taking your Thread sideways. It is pretty much completely my fault because I was the one that went off, when I should have just looked the other way like most of us do when people like BCBoy get involved. The reason I got mad was because I know Glen and I would defend anyone I consider to be a friend as well. I probably did it the wrong way, but the multiple PMs I've received from people saying that they are happy someone finally said what needed to be said, makes me feel that some good might possibly come from it. Unfortunately I did it at the expense of your post that should have been positive because of the reality of what you were doing. Like I said, anyone that knows me would agree that it takes a lot to get me mad, so I guess we know my breaking point now. We'll have a laugh about it over a cold one on the bank soon I'm sure. With that, I'm done with this thread and promise to try not to be bothered like this in the future.

Good points Smitty and usually I'd post something closer to what you posted to get a point across. Admittedly, I was on my last nerve and he stepped on it. My apologies for sidetracking the post, but I've decided to leave it because I don't believe in taking things back. I wish you posted first Smitty because it would have been easier to just say..."What he said". As far as stepping down to his level....I'm okay with it today because sometimes I need to go back to being a snotnose, know it all twenty year old being that I'm at the peak of a mid-life crisis. Glen, I'll make it up to you on the river bank for stepping into your thread.

F@*K you BC Boy. If you don't have something productive to say, shut the hell up. You've been banned from other Boards and choose to continue to do the same crap every where you go, until they kick you off as well. People here have been fishing for longer than you've been alive and you think you can make your smart assed posts like the "Know it all" little piece of "you know what" you are. You'll get banned as you always do, change your Tag and show up to bring down boards like this until you grow up and realise what a prick you were when you were too young to know any better....which BTW is right now. For those that know me, not much sets me off, but this punk finally did it. Also, I am not slamming BC folks. BC BOY was one of his former aliases. Move on.... Nice fish Glen, looks like you had a blast.

Thanks Brad....It appears that an event, or the idea for an event like this, with the intent of doing something good can show people's true colors. I should post a few of the PM's I've received to show the intelligence level of some people. I hope this thing can happen for the people that "get it", but from what I've been faced with already, I'm not sure.

I finally met up with Pipes, (Andy), on Friday for the W & W He Bid on for the Stream Watch Auction. We hit a stretch on the Lower Bow mid morning and fished until the rain got too heavy in the late afternoon. Andy told me he doesn't get to fish the Bow much, so I added a little instruction into the day and He proved to be a great student. It took a bit, but he quickly got the technique of Small Flies and Fine Tippets down. After assuring Him that it's not easy getting a good hook set with little size 18-22's, his frustration let up and once he got the first one in, it was pretty steady for most of the day sub surface. We turned, lipped, LDR'd too many fish to count and Andy landed several nice fish, so after noticing that the fish had started working on the surface upstream, I decided it was time for us to change up. It was fun to see the look on His face as we sat back and watched a bunch of Big fish doing their impression of pigs, feeding like gluttons on emerging BWO's. We took turns working our way upstream picking off one fish after another until the rain got too be too much. It was tough to leave, but not so much because of the great day we had on the water. The day had some pretty good fishing, great conversation and for most of the day, perfect weather. It was a pleasure spending the day on the water with Andy and I hope to do it again. Thank you Andy for Your contribution to Stream Watch. I hope you had a Great day. We took a few pictures, but it's nice to say, the fishing was too good to be bothered for the most part. Here's a few from the day. Pipes working a run... The fight is on... The Reward... A couple more... Oops...I think that one was pushing 30 inches...We had a few droppsies Thanks again Andy.

Thus the draw for zones that would be random, rather than just a free for all. Also, as I said in the original post, the prizes would most likely be minimal, with the intent to raise money for the Program. Most, if not all donations would be put up for auction to raise money. The input is great though, but believe it or not, I've had a lot of negative input as well, so I'm going to give it another week or so and decide if this is something that is actually a good idea or not. The competition aspect seems to be a problem with a number of people, along with the very strong opinions on how it should be run. Regardless, keep the ideas coming. Here as well as via PM's. Again, I apologize if my inbox is full. I'm still getting a ton of PM's slamming me for my opinions on the Classified Waters thread.... :$*%&: ....about this close [---] to just moving on......

Great points. I think what I'll do is take all the suggestions put forward and build an outline for rules, etc. that suits the majority. Obviously We won't be able to make everyone happy, but everyone has to remember what the goal really is. I've had some great input via PM's and email, so I think over the winter months, we should be able to put together a pretty good event. In a week or so, I'll post a breakdown/update of where it's at. So keep the input coming.

My Inbox seems to be filling up fairly fast, so if you get a message that I'm full, feel free to email me with your input, offers to help out, potential sponsorship, auction items, etc. bsvoboda@telus.net

Exactly Russ. That is the intention for sure. A fun, friendly competition with the entry money being basically a donation with the Banquet/Auction being the true fund raiser. If it starts to look like it might be anything but fun, I'll just walk away from it and they can look for other ways to support the program. Brent, I can't see how any fund raising event could be a "Waste of Time", but to each his own. Boats don't make sense because of the possibility of a large number of entrants, but a guided Float would be a great donation as an auction item.

Lol...I guess you can see why I included the disclaimer "For those out there that think that Fly Fishing Competitions are not good for the sport...." I guess if this thing happens We can't count on your support. I was actually thinking that depending on the number of people interested, we might use Your's and Leadhead's Jetboats to taxi groups to various locations to open up more potential zones. Skip the competition if you're not into it, but hopefully we'll see you at the Banquet/Auction.

I'd be more than happy to do the majority of organizing this, but with me being up North most of the time, I would need help with the "Leg Work". Speaking of the Dodger, He'd make a great Celebrity Judge IMO.

I thought I would post this idea to get some feedback. Other than the online auction that I’m sure we’ll be doing because last year’s was such a success in raising money for the “Stream Watch” Program, I thought of another possible way that would raise money, and would also be a lot of fun. The idea is to put together the inaugural “FFC/Stream Watch Bow River Fly Fishing Championships”. I’m thinking that if we spend the time, we could have it set up for sometime next year. With a little effort and planning, we could get sponsorship and potentially raise a decent amount of money while not only having a great time, but potentially starting something that could end up becoming an annual event. Along with the actual competition, there would be a banquet/ceremony that could include a live, silent auction. At the banquet there could also potentially be guest speakers, instruction on Fly Tying, etc. The Banquet entry would be included in each participant's entry fee, but we could sell tickets as well to raise additional money for Stream Watch. It would be dubbed a competition, but the main goal would be to raise money for an excellent program, but also have fun doing it. The prizes for the competition could be small items donated, along with a Trophy or two and bragging rights of course. The entry fees would basically be a donation to Stream Watch, so it goes without saying that there would be no money given to the winning teams. For the actual competition, here’s the basic breakdown I was thinking of: 1. 2 days of fishing, (Saturday and Sunday of course) 2. The river broken into zones that are drawn by participating teams that they will be restricted to, and required to do their fishing on. The draws for zones could be done for a different zone each day to limit travel, or it could be done in half days so that each team would be able to fish two different sections of river in one day. (ie-Policeman's Flats Upstream, McKinnon Flats Downstream, etc....) 3 Teams of 3 or 4 with a set entry fee per team of $200-$300 with the money going to the Stream Watch Program. This would basically be a donation of approximately $50 or so per entrant. Teams could be pre-determined or individual entrants could be drawn to make up the teams. 4. Judging could be done by either guest celebrity Anglers, (ie-Jim and Lynda McLennan, not to put you on the spot Jim and/or Lynda...). These judges could be stationed in each Zone and would be fishing with each team. Their results would then be included with the team’s final tallies. It would be a luck of the draw kind of thing. These judges could also be on hand as kind of a “Life line” that the teams could use for info and anything else they might be willing to offer. Judges could also be volunteers willing to be stationed at each zone, (if we can’t get any celebrity judges). These volunteers could also fish with each team. These judges, along with volunteers, would help record each team’s results thru-out the competition. 5. A set of rules would be put into place for minimum size of fish to be counted, (ie-18 inches), and bonuses put in place for exceeding a certain size as well, (ie-24 inches). 6. A definite start and finish time would be in place. 7. The winning teams could be decided by a system of total inches of fish caught, (over the minimum), or total number of fish caught, etc. There could also be bonus prizes for individuals like biggest fish, Most fish by an individual, etc. I have more, but I thought I would get some feedback before I went any further. For those out there that think that Fly Fishing Competitions are not good for the sport, please remember that this is just an idea for raising money for a great program. It’s not in any way a means of proving who the best Anglers are. I think that if a few of us put our heads together and put some time in, we could come up with a great event that would raise money at the same time. I'm already looking forward to the Friday night Kick Off BBQ if we can make this happen. Brett

I don't think you got my point with the comparison. I was saying that in time, the "Grandfather" rule will take effect and people fishing in the future will not know the difference. If you feel this strongly, you would fall under the category of, "Personal choice". You as an individual can choose not to go. If you think there is animosity due to the CW regs being put into place, you obviously didn't fish the area before. Not sure why you quoted the entire post I made, but your post/reply completely backs up what I am saying about the "Us" against "Them". It's not about Us and Them, it's about the fish and the future of the Fishery. It's one of the few places that I fished 30 years ago with my Grandfather that I am now confident that I will also be able to fish with my own Grand Children. Anyone that feels that it is a direct shot at them, or Us as a province, should re-evaluate whether they are more concerned about the Fish, or Their right to fish under regulations that They feel are fair. As someone else pointed out, it is rare to fish more than a few times in the Elk River Drainage without being asked for your license. I haven't been checked in Alberta for 3 years, which is over 300 days on Alberta waters. I'd say they are putting the money to good use as far as returning it to the resource that it came from and was meant to aid. It is a topic that creates and shows strong feelings and I've decided to leave it alone from here on in before more hard feelings are created.

First off, I want to say to Rehsifylf that I, in no way, meant to jump all over you. My comments were aimed generally at some of the arguments made here in this thread and other places as well. If you took it as a direct shot at you, I apologize. That being said, I'm glad you still went on your trip and had a good time. One question though...When you say a person can't buy an annual license, do you mean general Angling license or annual Classified Waters license? The reason a person can't buy an annual license for CW's is because of the maximum number of consecutive days a person is allowed. It is also so that they can track the number of people over a season that have bought the daily CW's so they can progressively implement regulations to sustain the fishery. It's supposed to work kind of like Hunting Tags for deer, etc., but without the limitation of Angler numbers for each CW, (which would be great IMO). I understand where you are coming from with the Poll you put up, but to simply ask if someone thinks they are "Fair", isn't going to prove anything. The system is far too complex to draw conclusions from a poll that is so basic. Without knowing the entire scope of the Regulations and how it affects even the Residents, (ie- Number of Rod Days on a River a local guide is allowed, etc.), most people couldn't possibly answer without some ignorance. My point about principle was simply that people are willing to piss away $20 on far more petty things and not think about it, but when asked to pay $20 for a day of fishing, We see it as unfair or against Our principles. It comes down to a personal choice and each individual has the right to choose. I've fished the Elk River Drainage for over 30 years and I've seen too many changes to list off. Now that the CW system has had a chance to show it's effectiveness, I can honestly see only positive results. The only negative impact it's had is the hard feelings between Albertans and people from BC, but really, the feelings are far nicer now than before the new Regs. I don't know if you were around when the Bait Bans and Seasonal closures were put in on the Bow, but there were a lot of people up in arms over it. Years later, it's just the way it is and the fishery is thriving. I believe the same will be true of the Classified Waters System. It won't take long before the newer generations of Anglers will know nothing else and hear stories of the old days when Us Albertans could just jump over the boarder and fish a day for next to nothing.

That's 'cause April guides on the Vedder Seriously though, it wasn't about over crowding. It was about protecting the fisheries. Rather than let the streams that hold Wild Cutthroat and Bull Trout, (among other species), get to the point the Thompson Steelhead, Alberta Walleye, etc., they decided to be proactive. Some people took it personally as a direct shot at Albertans. In my opinion, (as most that know me know), I think BC is light years ahead of Alberta in Maintaining and Sustaining their fisheries. It's not about about reciprocity, it's about protection of a resource. Of course Albertans are going to be the most affected, We are the closest population that doesn't have to cross an international border to take advantage. If putting regulations in to protect the fisheries is against anyone's principles, like I said, I don't think you get it and might have to re-evaluate. By bringing Tax Free shopping into a discussion about sustaining a sensitive resource is only going to take the discussion sideways and really doesn't apply. Of course I think the Bow, The Crowsnest, Stauffer, Bullshead Res, etc. should be governed under the same type of regulations, but for what ever reason, We here in Alberta don't seem to get it.

I shouldn't, but I will. Who really gives a damn where someone resides and why is it a problem because a person is not presently from the place they are fishing? This makes me laugh because how many true, Born and Raised Albertans, British Columbians, etc. are there anymore. Most people are from somewhere else originally. The person that started this thread is originally from BC. Who gives a damn what the license plate says and why would anyone let it ruin their day. One example is, Phil Rowley now resides in Alberta, but I'm sure he still fishes in BC. Is that a problem? Jim McLennon and others fish all over the place, should they be sure not to have Alberta plates on their vehicles. If you go down to the Elk River Drainage, there are plates from everywhere, Montana, Washington State, Texas...and yes, Alberta. They are all paying the daily CW license fees and I am a first hand witness to how the money generated has been put towards the fishery. I don't agree completely with how it is set up, but think it is a system that is necessary and think if set up correctly, should be used on all waters that could be classified as Trophy waters, including lakes. 20 Freakin' dollars a day to fish in one of the most beautiful areas on the planet. List off the things you bought for $20 in the last month that you didn't need and you'll see how petty it really is. If someone tries to use the "Principal" BS argument, they just don't get it.... Everyone's got an opinion, but this is ridiculous when it turns into another "Us" against "Them". Everyone complaims time and time again on how the regulations need to be changed to protect and improve the fisheries. When someone does just that, everyone sits back a cries about it. If you don't like it, just don't go..... :$*%&: I didn't post this to get a list generated of the true born and raised Albertans by the way....

Any big Bunny Streamer should do the trick, but as Hawgstoppah and the others on our BC trip recently can attest to, it isn't necessarily the fly that is the problem. If the fish sees you, it will remain in its spot, but won't take anything you offer it. I've found that if you use stealth, you can catch them. It is deceiving because they don't move like other Trout, but they shut down. They see a lot of anglers and Streamers together, so they associate the two. If they see a streamer, but no Angler, they are definitely more likely to bite. For example....When we first started out on Friday, I scooped a nice run loaded with Bullies and started casting upstream to them so they couldn't see me. I instantly hooked into 4 in my first series of casts. Once I got the "Fever" and let the fish know I was there, they turned off and it became near impossible to get them to show interest,but they didn't move. Try casting from behind cover or upstream to them. If they find out you're there, try sitting down for a bit and try again. They seem to forget fairly quick. Try dead drifting a White/Pink Bunny to them. Don't make the tail too long to avoid short strikes also.

My best fish of the year was a little 14 inch silver bullet from a lake in the Koots. It was the first fly tied by my 6 year old Daughter to catch a fish. A big 'ol Wooly Bugger.... I'll keep the picture of the fish to myself, but here she is tying the fly. fresh out of the shower. Hope she keeps the interest now.....

Not likely....They'll probably employ migrant workers from Mexico just like they do in Texas. We have no Canadian workforce to employ.

I've heard good and bad. I love Sage rods, but haven't had good experiences with their reels. I've looked at the Loop and like the technology, so that's what I'm going with for my next reels. But that's just me, I change my mind like the Calgary weather. I've always liked Lamson as well. You can test drive my 4 wt Z-Axis this weekend if you like...On the little guys of course.

I recently got a fella I work with into Fly Fishing, but of course he still resorts back to his hardware on occasion. Last night we had a debate on something that I otherwise wouldn't have any concern with, but I can see the confusion. His Crank Baits, Plugs, etc. all come with multiple tri-hooks attached and the regulation on number of hooks allowed is a little unclear. Under General Sportfishing Regulations in 3 successive rules...."It is Unlawful to": - Use a line in angling equipped with more than three hooks (eg-three hooks, or three single hook lures, or one three hook lure). - Use a lure in angling with more than three hooks as part of it. - Use a hook with more than three points on a common shaft (See important Definitions...) Related definition: Hook - means a single, double, or triple pointed hook on a common shaft, and includes hooks attached to a lure. (Note: some legal lures appear to have a hook with four points, but actually have two shafts each with two points). Does this mean that if a lure has two treble hooks, does a person have to remove one of them? or does it mean that if a lure only has two treble hooks, they ar allowed to add a third? I see it as being able to use more than one treble hook the way it is written, (which is ridiculous IMO), but the 1st rule says "Three Hooks....or one three hook lure" What is the use in going barbless if it is allowed to cast lures with three treble hooks attached? Something that should be looked at being changed I think. Should simply be 3 single hooks or 1 Treble hook per line.

Yes, but with Their "Global Warming" theory that they're pushing, Our lakes should soon be warm enough. I'm sure that in no time at all, Our lakes will be full of illegally introduced Bass just like the Koots and We in the Calgary area will be well prepared thanks to the new Store from our caring neighbors to the south. Who really needs our Home Grown local businesses like "Frenchies/Borato's",(Wholesale Sports for those too young to remember), "Westwinds", "Country Pleasures" "Crowsnest Angler", etc. anyways..... http://www.wholesalesports.com/onlinestore/control/about_us http://www.russellsports.com/about.html

Oops. I was thinking Caroline. Thanks Mike.