Wolfie Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 On Monday of this week, I had an incident that left me stranded at the Highwood. Brand new rod, 4 piece St. Croix Imperial bought on the 17th of July, exactly one month prior to the day...exploded right at the second ferrel, leaving a fair bit of male still in the female end. There I was ..first time at the Highwood, all excited after reading posts of the adventures you all have posted..3rd forward cast and boom!..NOT very PLEASED I was cause I had no backup except for my ultra lite spinner...and this was not the way I wanted to go. ..came home and got on the phone to the place I bought it..taked with one of the staff in the 'fly section', only to be further mad and disappointed. I was told that I would have to send the rod to the manufacture down in the States and let them decide whether it was a defect or a man made error. This was not standing well with me..for I know how the relationship between retailers and manufacturers are in the 'buying' process, only because I was a buyer for a very large chain of sporting good stores for 7 years, in my early days, and nothing has changed cause $$$$ talks and everything else walks! ..I decided to talk with the management of the store where I bought rod..explained my situation to him, including the short period of time that the rod was purchased, brought in my 'bank statement' to show proof of purchase because I couldn't find the bill of sale..and when I got to the store and arrived at the customer service desk, I was greeted with either my $$$$ for the rod or a replacement...[now I was told that this store had a return policy of 3 months, by the manager I was dealing with, which gave me back the confidence in the store I was dealing with.] ..Well I accepted my $$$$ back, shook hands with the management, assured him I'll still be coming back as a customer of the store..and left almost $200.00 richer than when I came in. .....................Wolfie..........NOW, I'm looking for a new rod, which I believe "Max" has sold me on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northfork Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Well, first off, don't get a bad taste in your mouth for St. Croix's. They are excellent rods and you probably just got one that was banged up in the store or something, because that is almost unheard of, a rod breaking right out of the tube within 5 casts. But onto the topic at hand, for me it is a toss-up. Some stores are good with that kind of stuff, you were lucky to have purchased it at a store with a non-ignorant manager. I only take my business to a few stores now after bad experiences with others. In the grand scheme of things, the store is trying to make money obviously. They do everything in their power to keep that money. It probably hurt them to offer your money back, but that is service. Because of that reason you should continue to shop there. Some stores, if something breaks, they say, tough luck, it's up to you and the manufacturer. I know how bad that can be dealing with a manufacturer from the midwest. You wait a week on each end for shipping then a week while it's in the factory. I sent a certain rod in two years ago. It took 8 business days for them to "receive" it. They then took a week to asses the rod, and then send the broken rod BACK to me without giving me any notificationi of their decision. Simply a waste of time and utter ignorance. Anyway, for the most part, to answer your question, I think a store is on your side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headscan Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I feel like the shops I deal with are "on my side" and any shop where I don't feel that way simply doesn't get my business any more. The shops that do well and have been around a while realize that they can all carry the same or similar products so where they get the return business is by offering exceptional customer service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 In general I think the small fly shops are better for customer and warranty service than the big box stores. However, the big boxes are generally better for price. So there is a bit of a trade off. If you fish a lot and and fish hard then all rods will be broken at some point (hopefully not on day 1). Therefore, having ease of warranty service is worth a little extra dough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishead Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Excellent return policies create return customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBBrownie Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I've been dropping into Southbow lately, I think they'd be on my side and besides, they're better at BS'n fish talk than the boxes are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duanec Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 i like the 'smaller' shops....maybe costs more but it's about more than just an exchange of goods with many of the better ones. the shop i prefer was really good about a problematic rod i had earlier this year...just goes to reaffirm my loyalty to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Don't blame the McClerk in the box, too much. He is not paid or allowed to make ad hoc decisions, that's what managers do. He was probably reading the "policy" word for word. Boxes can afford to let one or two slip, they get volume discounts, have big $ "understandings" with suppliers and can afford to sweep a problem aside, because there is another customer in line. Small shops can't afford to do that. They had better pay attention to their individual customers, that's what the customer is doing there and paying for. Warranties are a real bone of contention and your experience, Wolfie, are exactly what warranties are for. It is up to the manufacturer to make it easy on consumers. Look at the difference between Sage and TFO. Why is TFO so popular in Alberta? They have a large distributor in Calgary, right? Warranty replacement is no fuss, no muss, just fork over the $25 and a new section or rod is in hand. Sage? You pay a premium price and in the case of breakage, there is a wait, unless the dealer takes it upon himself to do the exchange(but that's the dealer, not the supplier.). St. Croix is good stuff, but their warranty policy is really behind the times. I was on their pro-staff for 3 years, tried to get them to streamline things, took them 3 years to change not much of anything. j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 Don't blame the McClerk in the box, too much. He is not paid or allowed to make ad hoc decisions, that's what managers do. He was probably reading the "policy" word for word. Boxes can afford to let one or two slip, they get volume discounts, have big $ "understandings" with suppliers and can afford to sweep a problem aside, because there is another customer in line. Small shops can't afford to do that. They had better pay attention to their individual customers, that's what the customer is doing there and paying for. Warranties are a real bone of contention and your experience, Wolfie, are exactly what warranties are for. It is up to the manufacturer to make it easy on consumers. Look at the difference between Sage and TFO. Why is TFO so popular in Alberta? They have a large distributor in Calgary, right? Warranty replacement is no fuss, no muss, just fork over the $25 and a new section or rod is in hand. Sage? You pay a premium price and in the case of breakage, there is a wait, unless the dealer takes it upon himself to do the exchange(but that's the dealer, not the supplier.). St. Croix is good stuff, but their warranty policy is really behind the times. I was on their pro-staff for 3 years, tried to get them to streamline things, took them 3 years to change not much of anything. j Well Jack, you are right in a lot of points...big boxes..$$$$ talks, that's a given, but how many of us puts them in their place..probably not to many. As far as the small more personal shops are concern, I , personally have to lean towards them, because ..in my case of choice, the shop is not pushy, willing to share not only conditions but product knowledge even at the expense of time [which we all now doesn't come cheap these days], but most of all if they do not have the item u want..they'll refer u to whatever place that does.. ..and yes..TFO..has built up their rep just by that...offering for an extra fee ..either a replacement section or a whole complete rod..well that is all good for everyone...well not so..ME..because of my years of experience, it doesn't sit well...and here is my Opinion.. ..U buy a rod..cost is $200.00..not the top but top for ur hard earn dollar.. ..something happens to it and you believe it is not ur fault for you are always careful of ur toy.. ..u take it back to TFO and they say :for $25.00 they will either replace the section or give u a newer rod if u choice to upgrade.. ..but NO..the break was manufacturer's defect, the rod blank had a weak spot in it..why should you "pay" more money when it is NOT ur fault... ..................that is my point..they should have someone there who can make that type of decisions at the warehouse...................Wolfie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayhad Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 [..................that is my point..they should have someone there who can make that type of decisions at the warehouse................... [/i] a lot of manufacturers allowed replacements up to the early 90s but things have changed and not many manufacturers are going to give a retailer the power to give away rods. The system was flawed because it was abused and if there is a charge back the retailer is caught having to pay the fee if the breakage wasn't warrantied. Would you want someone that doesn't have a vested interest in your company making decisions on who gets free product? I know it sucks, I have broken several rods this year and you just have to wait or buy a TFO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayjjones11 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 ..but NO..the break was manufacturer's defect, the rod blank had a weak spot in it..why should you "pay" more money when it is NOT ur fault... ..................that is my point..they should have someone there who can make that type of decisions at the warehouse...................Wolfie [/i] I'll play devils advocate and ask how you knew it was a manufacturers defect. Did you wax your ferrules since you bought it? Did you make sure it was tight in the other ferrule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhurt Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 I'll play devils advocate and ask how you knew it was a manufacturers defect. Did you wax your ferrules since you bought it? Did you make sure it was tight in the other ferrule. I would also like to add that with TFO, Springbrook is not the MAUFACTURE of the product they are the DISTRIBUTOR, so with that said how is it their fault? Also why do they have to pay for the replacement when it is a maufacturer problem, you want it replaced for nothing then deal with the manufacture of the product and not the distributor. Sure they get it for a discounted price but how many units do they need to buy in order to get that discount? In your cases wolfie I believe you should just get a replacement for the bad product, but if it happens after a year screw that, you should pay for it, and come on is the price really the outrageous, I think not. I have been in the retail industry for almost 20 years and 10 of that in a big box enviroment and you would be surprised at how many scams are pulled on a regular basis, I remeber a customer that came in one day wanting to return a laptop that didn't work after one year, looking at the unit I noticed a couple of screws missing from the bottom of the computer and upon futher investigation found out that the customer had opened up the laptop removed parts and replaced with very old components and was trying to pull a quick one. Scams happen more then what people think espically in big box stores, just cause they are a big box store doesn;t mean they are against you, come into my store, don;t tell me who you are and see the lengths I go to to help you out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 I've had some very good experiences with Fishin Hole. Note: it really helps if you get to know the staff. By the way TFO replacement is now $30 which I found out in the spring. Still a great deal. Had my rod together the next day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 bhurt..well things have changed tremendously since I was in the business that is for sure, and reading ur example , I can understand the need for the manufacturer to put a charge on either the replacement part or replacing with a whole rod..but you see..It was part of our job back then to deal with the customer in regards to damaged products and believe me, I've seen many scams pulled as well...I only used TFO as a prime example because it is here in Calgary, which gives easy access to everyone to just buy one of those rods, abuse the crap out of them , pay a few more bucks , get another one and away you can go...get my point now? ..jayjj11..I guess from ur comment you assumed I was talking about an actual incident, whereas I was giving an example as if it could/did take place...but it was said to give strength to the following statement after that..ppl who own/run big boxes, has the advantage over the small shops and that is a given..and I know ppl try and take advantage of any situation, just to get something for free..it is in our make up..not everyone but enough of us..and I understand that things had to change, because both the retailer and the manufacture was taking a beating do to excessive damage of their products... ..as to my personal incident..being a rod builder for 17 years, back in the province of Ontario, I'm totally qualified to asset the fact that it was either a defect caused by ..the manufacture or more than likely as I told the manager in charge that it was due to a customer, considering it was on display in another store. ..one only waxes the male tips if it requires it, and in my case, that was not the case..there was a hair line crack on the male part..caused by a whack of some kind, abuse to the rod.................Wolfie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 "buy one of those rods, abuse the crap out of them , pay a few more bucks , get another one and away you can go...get my point now?" Precisely what I have against "unconditional" warranties. All the people that take care of their stuff, pay up front for the no-minds that abuse the hell out of really good stuff and shrug it off with "it's an unconditional lifetime warranty". I wrote the warranty conditions for the rods that my company manufactures, what I did was combine TFO's "pay a little bit" for a lifetime, with an unconditional 1 year. A "lifetime unconditional" by any manufacturer is basically an insurance policy with a one time premium included in the retail price. Didn't want to go there. j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 "buy one of those rods, abuse the crap out of them , pay a few more bucks , get another one and away you can go...get my point now?" Precisely what I have against "unconditional" warranties. All the people that take care of their stuff, pay up front for the no-minds that abuse the hell out of really good stuff and shrug it off with "it's an unconditional lifetime warranty". I wrote the warranty conditions for the rods that my company manufactures, what I did was combine TFO's "pay a little bit" for a lifetime, with an unconditional 1 year. A "lifetime unconditional" by any manufacturer is basically an insurance policy with a one time premium included in the retail price. Didn't want to go there. j see can go one more step beyond that Jack..from what I've seen and heard the TFO line is the 'average' price line of the graphite's, and yours among quite a few more are the "above average" price range and quality of product.. and so a buyer of any of ur's or the rest, Will take pride in what they are using and will take extra care in the handling..however..TFO has set the presidence by asking a minimal extra fee for replacements, thus making it harder for you to build a better , stronger warranty, catering to those who have "respect" for what their $$$$ can buy..............Wolfie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawgstoppah Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 I've had some very good experiences with Fishin Hole. must be under new management from 10 yrs ago then becuase I'll never set foot into the one in north calgary again. They wouldnt replace a reel that fell apart the first time it was used and then accused me of "banging it on rocks" and also slandered me on several message boards. Great guys eh? and this was after I spent over 1000 bucks on a new rod and an islander reel, and the okuma reel that fell apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhurt Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Wolfie, I tend to disagree with you I own expensive rods and I own cheap rods and ask anyone that knows me I treat all my rods the same, and I know many people that own a TFO and have never had it break on them unless it was their fault. For the last three years I used a a tfo TRCIX and only had to replace the tip twice, once was cause I smacked it with a streamer and the second time was when I caught my line on a branch and yanked on it hard cause I was too lazy to untangle it, both where my fault and I should pay for it to be replace, on the other hand I have a sage 7wt 9foot SLT which I have used less then dozen times and have broken the tip twice on it, the first time I broke it I had to pay for a replacement part which took sage 8months to replace (this one might of been my fault I dunno though cause it was at night) when I finally got my new tip I used it once and guess what a borken tip again, when I called sage about it the reply I got back "PROVE TO US THAT YOU DIDN'T BREAK THE TIP YOURSELF" We'll see how long it takes for this one to come back. Does this now mean that Sage is not good? I personally think a TFO rod is great for beginners as its not very difficult to cast or doesn't cost you an arm and a leg and if you break it you can be fishin again within a day since their CANADAIN DISTRIBUTOR is located here in Calgary. I think this is the biggest reason not the fact that they can use and abuse it but if something does break on it they can have it replaced quickly, if Springbrook was not located here in calgary I think things would be much diffrent. However this discussion was about getting the service that you need from the store you go to. I know at my work we have strict rules about returns, if it is within 30 days no questions asked as long as you can show proof of purchase (bank statements or credit card statements are good for us too) Here is the thing though, I have seen alot of people come in with a piss poor attitude, and honestly how would you react to someone that is demanding (not saying you where) personally I would give the jackass *hit service, you get treated how you treat other, for example one day someone called me up at work I answered the phone with my normal greeting and I got about ****in time, needless to say I just hung up the phone without saying anything. My suggestion to most people is don't call, most of the time its just a waste of time, come in, in a friendly manner explain what had happened and I belive you would be surprised at how much people will try and find a soultion to the problem, the jerks usally leave mad and with nothing solved. Oh and by the way times havn't really changed (with the exception to this year) in the last 10 years pretty much the same, however this year is diffrent because of the recision alot of manufactures are beeing really picky with what they take back (They don't want to lose money on stuff) thus leaving the retail store or the distrubutor with eating the cost which in my opion is very unfair, so to pay a little bit extra isn't that bad of a thing, in the end everyone is happy. Oh and one more thing, hopefully the last, I guess you should of checked it before you left the store with it, not trying to pick on you but you say this and that and you expect everything to be in tip top shape but how do you know it was damaged at the store and not while beeing shipped to the store? Ever seen how UPS handles their freigt? So with that beeing said it is the manufactures resonability to replace the product and not the retail store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 bhurt... ..some super points you have brought out, and I don't think that you are disagreeing with me but explaining a completely different side of things which is good because it brings more light to the convo. ..take this for example: I personally think a TFO rod is great for beginners as its not very difficult to cast or doesn't cost you an arm and a leg and if you break it you can be fishin again within a day since their CANADAIN DISTRIBUTOR is located here in Calgary. I think this is the biggest reason not the fact that they can use and abuse it but if something does break on it they can have it replaced quickly, if Springbrook was not located here in calgary I think things would be much diffrent. ..just from what I've heard, in various shops, be it the little guys or the big box..it is the highlight of their sale pitch.."if you break it you can be fishing again within a day since their CANADIAN DISTRIBUTOR is located here in Calgary" so many times I've heard this, and I'll state right now , for a rod that "so I was told" is assembled in either Taiwan or China, the action is quite good, BUT..is it pure graphite or composite..OK, for the inexpensive cost side, yes it maybe a good rod , as you said for the beginner..where as that person can if the situation did arise , go directly to SpringBrook and pay a bit of $$$$ for a replacement part or entire rod.. .. I tend to disagree with you I own expensive rods and I own cheap rods and ask anyone that knows me I treat all my rods the same, and I know many people that own a TFO and have never had it break on them unless it was their fault. ..with this statement , u think I don't know that ppl who have several rods of the top line and the not so top would have the tendency to abuse the low end...hardly because I can not judge everyone , only myself..and here is an example of me..I own some very expensive material goods..and not so, but like you they are treated the same because they are mine!..yet my boys are the opposite to me, only cause again $$$$ talks..therefore if something happens to anything of theirs..they just replace it..so in reality, ppl in general the percentage is 50/50..don't you agree.. ..the bit about ur broken tip from Sage, hmm, who is to say that one of them [shippers/packers of Sage] didn't break it or put in a broken tip to begin with..or as you stated below, the person who read ur mail, or listened to u while you explained urself had made up their mind not to believe you..there are a lot of factors involved, but if you put out good $$$$ to get a new part, then m8..I'd be talking with management about this second situation. ..just one more I'll respond to, and this is it..: Oh and one more thing, hopefully the last, I guess you should of checked it before you left the store with it, not trying to pick on you but you say this and that and you expect everything to be in tip top shape but how do you know it was damaged at the store and not while beeing shipped to the store? Ever seen how UPS handles their freigt? So with that beeing said it is the manufactures resonability to replace the product and not the retail store. ..first off, the rod was a 4 piece..and has it's own tube, which I'm sure when rods are shipped to the distributor or retail store , they are always in their tubes for that very reason.."disrespect for other ppl's property"..EX: shipping and handling.. and I had stated that because it came from one of their stores, it may have been on display because it was the last one the big box had...thus it was in the hands of "fate"..and my dermis... ..Oh ya..the old saying is "you can catch more flies with "honey", then with vinegar...as so talking nice to ppl will come up always with a proper situation in the end...................................................Wolfie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbowtrout Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Always take a back up rod!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 Always take a back up rod!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ya ya.....but m8..would you call that .."Murphy's Law?"......................................Wolfie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbowtrout Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Buy that Tenkara rod and leave it in your glove box LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefromsundre Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Broke my Sage a few years ago. I had built it myself so I phoned the guys at Fish Tales to see what I should do. They explained the procedure to me and then offered to send my rod to Sage with a shipment they were sending even though I had not bought the blank from them. Now isn't that service? Since I am from out of town I gratefully declined their offer and mailed it myself. As I recall the rod was back in a couple of weeks -but of course then I had to start into to rebuild the broken piece. I had to pay the shipping both ways and had to insure the broken rod when I shipped it. So really the $30 that TFO charged my wife this summer when she broke her TFO is not excessive and we had to new rod ready to go in a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefromsundre Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 ...And yes I never leave home now without a spare rod and reel. It helps that my kids have left their rods in my care when they have moved. Don't tell them I use their rods as my spares (lol). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 BBT..as a matter of fact i ordered 3 sizes but straight out of China..which will cost me $60.00 for all three and NO shipping charges cause my neighbor is bringing them back for me...[El Cheapo] that I am... mikefromsundre... ..my problem is m8 all of my kids rods are mine to begin with, I don't give them to them anymore since my oldest broke a 12.5' Loomis on a damn Chinook, years back..horse playing a big silver............Wolfie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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