Cutman Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I've been reading this book lately, Wisdom of the Guides by Paul Arnold, and some guides recommend going one or even two line weight heavier than the rod weight. I think the rationale is that weight of the line is based on the weight of the first 30 feet and if you don't always have 30 feet of line out (not including leader and tippet), then the rod is not being loaded suffiently. Also, one guide mentions it allows you to "feel" the rod loading more and is therefore good for improving technique. I have two rods, both inexpensive, a Redington and a TFO, 6 and 4-weight, respectively. I'm thinking of trying a 5-weight line on the 4-weight rod, and maybe a 7-weight line on the 6-weight rod. With the 4-weight rod I do a lot of small creek fishing where I rarely have 30 feet of line out. Also, I like the way my 6-weight feels when I have a sinking leader, providing some extra weight as the rod is pretty stiff. I should mention I weigh about 145 lbs and perhaps not as muscular as some. Thanks for your opinion. I don't want to go out and buy a 5-weight line without some verification that this is a valid concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanbritt Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Parker, Good question. I think the best way to fit a line to your rod is to look at what type of fishing you're going to be doing. Rather than look at the weight of the line and over/under weighting the line for the rod, you should look at the construction of the line (e.g. size of front taper/belly/rear taper/running line). Almost all the brands out there (Airflo/SA/Rio) have specifically designed lines for particular types of fishing. This may be a better solution for what you're looking for, and would be (believe it or not) less confusing. For example, if you like the feel of a heavier head, you may consider something with a shorter front taper (such as an SA GPX). You might want to go into a local shop and spend some time talking with the guys (they know their stuff!) about what type of fishing you'll be doing, what type of feel you like, etc. and they could give you some options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutman Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 I should mention that my 4-weight line is a weight-forward and my 6-weight line a double-taper. I like the way my 4-weight rod feels, but I'm not sure whether that is the rod, the line, or a combination of both. So many variables. Just for shits and giggles, I am thinking of trying my 6-weight, double-taper line on my 4-weight rod this weekend and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ÜberFly Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 This topic has been discussed many times. Please do a search and you will come up with the answers (sorry don't have time to post the link). Cheers, P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headscan Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Just use the "Search" button around the top right corner of the page and search the entire forum for either "overline" or "overlining". Some good threads to be found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny5 Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I have a redington 6wt and just tried the rio gold 5wt on it and I really like how it casts. Maybe I am weird, but it seems a lot smoother than the 6wt gpx that I have for that rod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ÜberFly Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Remember the SA GPX (as well as Rio Grand, SA Headstart, and a few others I can't remember the specific ones) are over weighted to begin with!! Try it with a standard 6. Also if your rod is a mid flex (medium taper - as oppose to many of the "fast" tapers) are somewhat softer and would do better with a DT or heavier front taper (of the line). So that will influence the feel/cast-ability. P I have a redington 6wt and just tried the rio gold 5wt on it and I really like how it casts. Maybe I am weird, but it seems a lot smoother than the 6wt gpx that I have for that rod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwell Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 overlining your rod will allow you too feel the rods load more easily.. the rod flexs more.. however the rod does respond much slower the higher your overline your rod. many fast actoin rods do cast better overlined specially for less experienced casters because u can feel to rods load more easily. in my past experience many people do well with weight forward lines when u want too "shoot" you line farther for a longer cast soa double taper on your 6 wt would prefent you from shooting line easier.... ina weight forward line the "shooting head" or "weight forwrd part" does have all the weight in it too properly load your rods.. it can be a good reason why you cannot toss bombs with only 10 feet or line out versus the full 30.. lots of specialty lines have more advanced tapers too turn over rigs easier but the cheaper solution would be too buy a cheap 30 doller line in a line size heavier.... then get use to the feel of a rod loading and inprove you casting mechanics then look towards getting a "fancy" line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutman Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 That brings me to my next question. Aside from distance and shooting line, how do weight-forward and double-taper lines compare for delicate presentation? Also, I have seen a lot of new "nymph lines" and I wonder what the difference is (i.e., taper, running line width, coating, etc.)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawgstoppah Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 in my humble opinion, overlining a rod isnt very good for presentation (say , for example, a 4wt line on my 3wt, that would be the end of a quiet and supple fly presentation). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawgstoppah Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 in my humble opinion, overlining a rod isnt very good for presentation (say , for example, a 4wt line on my 3wt, that would be the end of a quiet and supple fly presentation). I should be specific in saying - for DRY FLY presentations.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simpson Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I should be specific in saying - for DRY FLY presentations.. I agree, match the weight for dry fly and load one weight up for all others. I do this on my TFO sig 5,6,7wt and I like the way it feels. I am sure this may change pending on the type of rod and action. Definitely worth the trouble to investigate to see how you like it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theiceman2 Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I would love to see a rod builders opinion on here, but I believe overweighting is an attempt to correct for poor casting machanics. Fix teh root of the problem, and don't try to hide it. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egocop Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 While I respect your humble opinion, here is some GREAT advice when it comes to light weight rods and line weight: Let's say you're using a 3wt rod with a 3wt line on a small stream. Most of your casts are going to be less than 15 or 20 feet. Take away the leader and you only have about 10 feet or so of fly line aerialized. Well that's not enough line weight to allow the rod to perform as designed. So, in this case, its makes perfect since to overline your rod. Ten feet of a 4wt line might give you enough aerialized weight to allow the rod to perform better and thus improve your casting. So think about it. You may want to overline your new rod depending on how far you think you'll be casting. Source: http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/f...-line-2126.html A 4WT DT line on a 3WT fast action rod works fantastic for dries in small creeks......IMHO in my humble opinion, overlining a rod isnt very good for presentation (say , for example, a 4wt line on my 3wt, that would be the end of a quiet and supple fly presentation). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowcane Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 While I respect your humble opinion, here is some GREAT advice when it comes to light weight rods and line weight: Let's say you're using a 3wt rod with a 3wt line on a small stream. Most of your casts are going to be less than 15 or 20 feet. Take away the leader and you only have about 10 feet or so of fly line aerialized. Well that's not enough line weight to allow the rod to perform as designed. So, in this case, its makes perfect since to overline your rod. Ten feet of a 4wt line might give you enough aerialized weight to allow the rod to perform better and thus improve your casting. So think about it. You may want to overline your new rod depending on how far you think you'll be casting. Source: http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/f...-line-2126.html A 4WT DT line on a 3WT fast action rod works fantastic for dries in small creeks......IMHO At those distances the differance in line wieght is a great big fat 7 grains. At thirty feet there is 20 grains differance between a 3 and a 4. (100 vs 120) With identical tapers a DT and a WF cast and handle exactly the same under 30'. Fancy lines dont fix poor casting basics, 10' of line can load rods enough to make short casts with the proper casting stroke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 At those distances the differance in line wieght is a great big fat 7 grains. At thirty feet there is 20 grains differance between a 3 and a 4. (100 vs 120) With identical tapers a DT and a WF cast and handle exactly the same under 30'. Fancy lines dont fix poor casting basics, 10' of line can load rods enough to make short casts with the proper casting stroke. I couldn't agree more. Fancy lines don't fix poor casting basics. Now having said that there are so many different lines out there. I have a lot of fly rods and have uplined my lines on several rods to see the difference. Some I like and others I don't. It really depends on the line and the rod. Is the rod a slow, medium or fast rod? Is it somewhere in between? What type of fishing do you do? Do you really need to cast a rod 60' to catch a fish? Or can you catch one right in front of you at 10'? I once heard someone who was just down river from me ask Barry Smith as he drifted by with some clients, where all the fish were. Barry's reply was " Your standing on them". Too funny. There are so many variables. Here is a link to Rio's website. Have a look there and compare what they say for each line to your particular rod. There is some great information out there if your willing to do some reading. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwell Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 I would love to see a rod builders opinion on here, but I believe overweighting is an attempt to correct for poor casting machanics. Fix teh root of the problem, and don't try to hide it. Matt go look contact a few companies and ask for grain windows.. there are alot of rods with slightly different windows.... overlining can help a "poor" caster feel the load better but its not going too turn one into a pro..... just help some.. and with some rods witha highwer window they will need a higher line weight than marked on teh rod.... ive seen some older softer sticks too cast better underlined.... more so glass rods... but the biggest thing i think is who is casting teh rod... bowcane and kfisher made some deadly points too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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